Low Deflection Shafts - What's Your Opinion???

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
"Low Deflection" shafts are fine, but they still deflect slightly. I'm of the opinion that it's better to TRY to throw the shots and make the deflection process "your best friend," rather than some "evil enemy."

There's two trains of thought when playing rotation games. One is to let the table dictate what shot you hit. That would mean you look at the shot and it tells you what speed, what spin, and what angle (is the best to get on your next shot).

The other way is what I suggest. Develop a shot that enables you to maximize the pocket size. This means you line up to undercut the shot slightly (aim in the pocket, but on the "undercut side") and deflect it to over-cut slightly.

My preference is to deflect the ball slightly with a "Touch" of Inside because I can get a more consistent result by adjusting my speed, rather than my "aim". Then I can start playing a consistent angle as well. This means I'm controlling the angle, the speed, and the spin according to your preference, not because the "table makes me hit a low percentage {spinning} shot."

Sounds backwards, however, think about it, how well could you play if you hit the same speed, {same}place on the cue ball, and {same} angle every time?

If I undercut a shot I hit it firmer and accelerate more next time. If I miss the same shot hitting a "slow spin shot," I don't get the feedback to know what happened, it could be a variety of factors. There's more calculations, so therefore more variables to deal with.

If I make an adjustment that's incorrect it could throw you off temporarily enough to lose a whole match or gambling set. The amount of money involved in matches I've played prohibited this type of guessing. I had to know for sure so I could make a specific adjustment!

When we spin the ball or try to hit center and miss there's a lot more variables and it's difficult to know and adjust for errant shots. This effects our ability to maximize "margin of error"
through the use of "Pocket Zones". To create a pocket zone you must learn to favor one side of the pocket and effectively force it into the center or other side of the pocket.

To see free videos demonstrating these techniques visit my web site at www.cjwiley.com - you will see 29 balls in a row made in one pocket and the 15 ball rotation ghost drill using the Touch of inside system
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Welcome back, CJ.

I have both kinds of shafts and I keep going back to my regular shafts more and more. The last couple of weeks, I've used an old A.E. Schmidt cue made in St. Louis about 45 years ago. It has a regular shaft with deflection and it plays well.
 

Dognit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Big fat 13.25 Southwest shafts. :D

In fact, Tonite was the first time IVE EVER hit with a Predator. Was a new Z3 on an ICON butt. I literally overcut any spin shot by 30 degrees.

I dont get all the hype of Predator and OB. Good quality, but just not what Im accustomed to..

Different strokes...
 

Colonel

Raised by Wolves in a Pool Hall
Silver Member
I don't think about LD shafts at all. If you understand it, then deflection is your best friend
 

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Either one It doesn't matter. Learn the shaft you play with and you'll be golden.... Now if you asked which one "hits" better, then I'd say normal old growth hard rock maple...
 

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some postings of some people do sound more like a sales pitch for their method / system / instructions to me so I'm a bit careful...

I'm a pool newbie and as such do not have any legacy thoughts on anything. To me it's very simple: the less I need to compensate the better.

Also when I'm playing Carom the squirt is really anoying and causes me to miss a lot of shots. It's very different from pool because the CB usually is much closer to the OBs and far less force but much more spin is wanted - which causes you to usually hit the OB long before the back-swerve of the CB. The compensation can be as much as 1/2 to 3/4 of a ball for a maximum spin hit.
No wonder the real Carom guys play with extremely short ferrules and <11mm tips while the 3 cushionists have it >11mm because they need to exert more force and less precision.

For me it's been clear from the start: I will not buy a normal huge squirt shaft and I do not like solid woods for stressed parts. Too much can go wrong and the preselection needs to be done carfully.
I've been starting out with a R360 shaft (not bad in all regards), upgraded to a Universal cue (a bit better) and now am trying out a Tiger LD (not the thin "no D" shaft) which has a very similar feel but around 30-40% less throw.
It's a very perceptive shaft, gorgeous light maple, well-made - so a big win in my book.

If you're on the finer side of things with lots of spin you might try and like it.
Obviously you'll need to adjust your aim :smile:

Cheers.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Low Deflection Shafts

A friend of mine wanted me to try out a low deflection shaft and we played some One Pocket. I didn't do near as well as when I knew I had some squirt to contend with. The particular shaft hit really stiff and I didn't like that hit very well. Its hard not to love the hit of good maple. I would like to spend more time with some of the low deflection shafts and try them all but I think I would hate to give up a great hit for a little less squirt.

 

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So Robin, it was not a LD issue but you did not like the way the shaft telegraphed the hit.
Radially glued shafts are a bit stiffer and more direct and a bit more even at the same time.
All things you need to be accustomed to, but once you are it will open up your play.

Try a Tiger LD, it's got a softer Sniper tip and due to the 5 piece construction does have a solid center + 4 pieces around it to make you feel the hits. R360 has composite stuff which makes it heavier and stiffer, Universal simply does 8 pieces radially glued, no special center.

Cheers!
 

Petros Andrikop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Learning to aim differently is one thing with LD shafts (for some of us who learned how to play during the pre-LD times - a lot of players have adjusted just fine), my biggest problem with them was feel of speed though, something which is very important for position play.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Learning to aim differently is one thing with LD shafts (for some of us who learned how to play during the pre-LD times - a lot of players have adjusted just fine), my biggest problem with them was feel of speed though, something which is very important for position play.

Me, too.


Freddie <~~~ I, also
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LD or one piece?

My question is do Dufferin one piece house cues deflect? If so how much compared to a two piece cue with a maple shaft or a two piece cue with a LD shaft.

I ask this question because I can walk in a grab a house cue and run out, if the tip is in ok condition, but I really struggled playing with a friends LD shaft.

He asked me to match up with a guy who had beat him out of some money, I didn't have my cues with me so I started the match with his cue, struggled for first set.

When I found a house cue, that I could use things got back to normal.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Deflection/Squirt

My question is do Dufferin one piece house cues deflect? If so how much compared to a two piece cue with a maple shaft or a two piece cue with a LD shaft.

I ask this question because I can walk in a grab a house cue and run out, if the tip is in ok condition, but I really struggled playing with a friends LD shaft.

He asked me to match up with a guy who had beat him out of some money, I didn't have my cues with me so I started the match with his cue, struggled for first set.

When I found a house cue, that I could use things got back to normal.

I break down squirt in 3 basic categories

13mm 8 in taper
12.75 15 in Pro Taper
Low Deflection Shafts

I find most cues will group in with one of the these 3 categories closely enough. Of course their will finite differences in the squirt values of all cues but for classification this seems to work pretty well and the squirt values very similar.

The subtle differences in these 3 classifications are almost immeasureable in terms of what you can see to work with over the distance of some shots but your feel for how the cue plays will adjust.

Your dufferin most likely would be in with the 13mm 8 in pro taper unless its shaft is just different that what I imagine it.
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks!

I break down squirt in 3 basic categories

13mm 8 in taper
12.75 15 in Pro Taper
Low Deflection Shafts

I find most cues will group in with one of the these 3 categories closely enough. Of course their will finite differences in the squirt values of all cues but for classification this seems to work pretty well and the squirt values very similar.

The subtle differences in these 3 classifications are almost immeasureable in terms of what you can see to work with over the distance of some shots but your feel for how the cue plays will adjust.

Your dufferin most likely would be in with the 13mm 8 in pro taper unless its shaft is just different that what I imagine it.

I am treating myself to a VERY NICE Tadd, I have always wanted one, but like most cues you have to play with it to know if its "Yours". I thought about buying a few Mezz shafts for the Tadd and putting different tips on them until I find a shift and tip combo I like.

I Love Tadd and Gina cues, but I need whatever I buy to play like the cue I use or be something that I can adjust to easily. That seems to be the bid advantage to LD shafts, you can move them from cue to cue?
 

cardit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started playing again a few years ago after a 40-year layoff. My stroke had left town without a forwarding address. I grew up spinning the rock using throw to pocket cut shots. I found a local instructor, a then 65-year old former road player who from the first lesson insisted that I get a Predator shaft. He even played with a first generation 314 on his Balabushka butt. I'm satisfied knowing that with the LD shaft my adjustment is minimal. And using TOI with that shaft has increased my consistency making shots.

cardit
Mike
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
South East

I am treating myself to a VERY NICE Tadd, I have always wanted one, but like most cues you have to play with it to know if its "Yours". I thought about buying a few Mezz shafts for the Tadd and putting different tips on them until I find a shift and tip combo I like.

I Love Tadd and Gina cues, but I need whatever I buy to play like the cue I use or be something that I can adjust to easily. That seems to be the bid advantage to LD shafts, you can move them from cue to cue?

Ive got a South East that plays great. 2 perfect for me shafts because they squirt just enough for me to be able to measure it well. I am intrigued and what a little less squirt might do for my game but if I go that way I want a nice soft hit and grippy tip.

Of all the tips there are out there. If you ever install and play long term with an Elkmaster you might be hooked. When new they are plenty grippy and they age well. When you take a tip tool to them it will cut past the worn and get you right back where you started from and its awesome. Some things are just good.

You are right about the portability of low deflection shafts but then again if you know the type of regular maple you like you can have it set up to suit you pretty well. All shafts of similar build will play so close that you will adjust quickly.

Try going from 13mm 8 in taper to 12.75 and 15 in taper big difference and could warrant a different type of adjustment for the heavier shaft. I can do both but prefer the 12.75 over the other.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
My question is do Dufferin one piece house cues deflect? If so how much compared to a two piece cue with a maple shaft or a two piece cue with a LD shaft.
With maximum side spin (hitting the CB 1/2" from center), a house cue or a two-piece maple cue with similar specs will squirt maybe 3/4" per foot of CB travel. A typical low-squirt (LD) cue will squirt about half to two thirds that much.

Swerve will reduce the result equally for both cues (more or less depending on the shot), so the net difference will remain the same.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I know CJ's a busy guy, so I'd like to thank him for taking the 10 seconds to cut-and-paste this post from a couple of years ago. Very generous.

I'm sure he didn't just do it as an excuse to repost the link to his website and for-sale stuff. I mean, he's not that kinda guy, right?

pj <- wouldn't be neighborly
chgo
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks again!

Ive got a South East that plays great. 2 perfect for me shafts because they squirt just enough for me to be able to measure it well. I am intrigued and what a little less squirt might do for my game but if I go that way I want a nice soft hit and grippy tip.

Of all the tips there are out there. If you ever install and play long term with an Elkmaster you might be hooked. When new they are plenty grippy and they age well. When you take a tip tool to them it will cut past the worn and get you right back where you started from and its awesome. Some things are just good.

You are right about the portability of low deflection shafts but then again if you know the type of regular maple you like you can have it set up to suit you pretty well. All shafts of similar build will play so close that you will adjust quickly.

Try going from 13mm 8 in taper to 12.75 and 15 in taper big difference and could warrant a different type of adjustment for the heavier shaft. I can do both but prefer the 12.75 over the other.

I'll give it a try both the Elk Master and the shaft variance's. Im looking to make some small adjustments. I played with a Tiger medium for many years and last year tried playing with a softer tip I think its a "Ultra". Thanks for the insights.
 
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