3 pt handle

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Is a three point handle,
structurally more sound
and harder to make than the 4 point handle?
Or not?

I had Kikel make mine, a 3 pt in 89, and NO one has ever has noticed that it was NOT a 4 pt.

When you look at Any cue with points your never able to see all of em at once just two at a time.

Is it not allot of extra work to make 4 pts over three....is there a Good reason NO one makes 3 pt. handles. Seems like it would be less labor and materials.

Fixed autos and trucks for 17 yrs, there's always a reason why things are built/constructed in a certain way.

Constructive comments appreciated.
 
str8eight

str8eight

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Island Drive said:
Is a three point handle,

structurally more sound

and harder to make than the 4 point handle?

Or not?



I had Kikel make mine, a 3 pt in 89, and NO one has ever has noticed that it was NOT a 4 pt.



When you look at Any cue with points your never able to see all of em at once just two at a time.



Is it not allot of extra work to make 4 pts over three....is there a Good reason NO one makes 3 pt. handles. Seems like it would be less labor and materials.



Fixed autos and trucks for 17 yrs, there's always a reason why things are built/constructed in a certain way.



Constructive comments appreciated.
Click to expand...
The thought of making a 3 point makes my OCD kick in. I'd have to add butterflies or something to give me a nice even number. The amount of time it takes to do one extra point is miniscule.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
str8eight said:
The thought of making a 3 point makes my OCD kick in. I'd have to add butterflies or something to give me a nice even number. The amount of time it takes to do one extra point is miniscule.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Is that a good thing?

With a 3 pt handle, there's more room between the pts. to add decorative artwork.
 
rhinobywilhite

rhinobywilhite

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The primary reason is few persons request them. I believe most cue makers would build one with a request.
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
3 spliced points on the handle ?
Yes that's correct.
Click to expand...

If you are talking inlay points, it's trivial. The true 120° included angle cutter for the inlay slot is not a typical one, but there are ways around that, and of course it's easy to make a custom cutter.

If you are talking true full splice, then it is down to the way at least old time (& some of us newbies) cut the prongs on a bandsaw.

With a good simple jig set up, the joint is forced to be self centering, self correcting, & self sizing when it is cut: You cut each side of the V from opposite true faces, so all the way round, so long as your blank is true, the points will be the same and will be centered & the same width.

You might be able to see that this only works for even # of prongs, though theoretically you could probably do 8 or maybe even 10 if desired.

Maybe you can also see that this does not work for odd number of prongs? (On a bandsaw, to feather end point). You then have to use a different type jig, and either a slitting saw on a milling machine, planer, or shaper; or even potentially a tablesaw. No matter what platform is used, your jig now has to be a lot better as does the referencing method: You can only cut one side of a prong at a set up. To cut the other side, it's necessary to reset all the stops and change the angle. Many of us don't actually know what precise angle we are cutting. We make a good guess on the fixture & cut scrap in the set up until the prongs match the other end of the joint that is machined with a cutterhead on, say, a shaper.

So, for full splice odd number of prongs, there is more work and a custom set up with custom fixtures. Even machining the other end becomes complicated, but not getting into that.

If it is just an inlay cue, then 3 points doesn't cause much extra work except the cutter, or method to cut the pocket. But it does not save any work, either, really.

Pic shows cutting scrap to dial in jig

smt

.
 

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Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PS - it just occurred to me while thinking about the shape and design of a cutter for a 3 point:

There's another way to make splices, that is sort of in between a true splice and an inlay. It is possible to trim the sides off one part on an angle, to a pyramid/ triangle at the base. Then cut flat faces inside the mating part to match. This could all be done on a BS, TS, Mill, or even up on end in a TS with a suitably tall blade. My TS will cut 6" deep, for example.

This would yield 3 "points" but they would be arch points like a 3 sided butterfly splice.

smt
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Ssonerai said:
If you are talking inlay points, it's trivial. The true 120° included angle cutter for the inlay slot is not a typical one, but there are ways around that, and of course it's easy to make a custom cutter.

If you are talking true full splice, then it is down to the way at least old time (& some of us newbies) cut the prongs on a bandsaw.

With a good simple jig set up, the joint is forced to be self centering, self correcting, & self sizing when it is cut: You cut each side of the V from opposite true faces, so all the way round, so long as your blank is true, the points will be the same and will be centered & the same width.

You might be able to see that this only works for even # of prongs, though theoretically you could probably do 8 or maybe even 10 if desired.

Maybe you can also see that this does not work for odd number of prongs? (On a bandsaw, to feather end point). You then have to use a different type jig, and either a slitting saw on a milling machine, planer, or shaper; or even potentially a tablesaw. No matter what platform is used, your jig now has to be a lot better as does the referencing method: You can only cut one side of a prong at a set up. To cut the other side, it's necessary to reset all the stops and change the angle. Many of us don't actually know what precise angle we are cutting. We make a good guess on the fixture & cut scrap in the set up until the prongs match the other end of the joint that is machined with a cutterhead on, say, a shaper.

So, for full splice odd number of prongs, there is more work and a custom set up with custom fixtures. Even machining the other end becomes complicated, but not getting into that.

If it is just an inlay cue, then 3 points doesn't cause much extra work except the cutter, or method to cut the pocket. But it does not save any work, either, really.

Pic shows cutting scrap to dial in jig

smt

.
Click to expand...
Full Splice 3pt is how Kikel made it in 89.

The way I roll, a three legged chair is able to be put on any surface and you can sit down and it's always Stable. You Can't do that with any 4 legged chair unless the surface is flat. Therefore my thinking is that creating a 3 point would have to be more solid/stable than four that's all. I could be wrong, because 10 layer plywood is Much stronger than one with less layers. My 1978 Zodiac had Many layers of laminated plywood flooring for strength, they later went to Aluminum, lighter, less cost and no maintenance.
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I follow your argument, not sure i believe it relating to cues? :)
(3 vs 4 or more)

It would be interesting to see a photo of your cue joint. I believe that construction to be more difficult than a 4 point, though as stated above, there's at least 2 ways to do it. There's another i suspect might work if one end is points and the other larger flats.

Does it have veneers?
I've always been in too much of a hurry. Also have trouble mentally visualizing what would look good. so have not done any myself.

smt
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Ssonerai said:
I follow your argument, not sure i believe it relating to cues? :)
(3 vs 4 or more)

It would be interesting to see a photo of your cue joint. The joint is the same as all cues I believe that construction to be more difficult than a 4 point, though as stated above, there's at least 2 ways to do it. There's another i suspect might work if one end is points and the other larger flats.

Does it have veneers?
I've always been in too much of a hurry. Also have trouble mentally visualizing what would look good. so have not done any myself.

smt
Click to expand...

No veneers...I'll take a pic and attach it to this thread.
 

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Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Beautiful cue.
Fantastic BE!

The joint is the same as all cues
Click to expand...

???? There's at least 3 ways to make that joint. Did you see it before it was assembled?

I could definitely make that joint and tell you it was a full splice.
If you were not a cue blank maker, you would not know if it was or not.

There are exceptional guys out there doing exceptional work. I know i can learn from all of them. Would really like to see that joint before it was assembled, or at least without the wrap. To be clear, the way it's made has little effect on beauty or how it plays. I like your cue and would love to know more from the maker, but unfortunately with a wrap, the jury is out on method used to construct it.

Thanks!
smt
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Ssonerai said:
Beautiful cue.
Fantastic BE!



???? There's at least 3 ways to make that joint. Did you see it before it was assembled?

I could definitely make that joint and tell you it was a full splice.
If you were not a cue blank maker, you would not know if it was or not.

There are exceptional guys out there doing exceptional work. I know i can learn from all of them. Would really like to see that joint before it was assembled, or at least without the wrap. To be clear, the way it's made has little effect on beauty or how it plays. I like your cue and would love to know more from the maker, but unfortunately with a wrap, the jury is out on method used to construct it.

Thanks!
smt
Click to expand...

Call Dave Kikel, tho he's a difficult person to deal with at times. Just Don't tell em your a pool player, tell him your a cue maker right out of the gate, wanting to know about this handle. My guess he never made another like it. He was fortunate, at that time I was getting out there full time and winning 89-93. And of course, then everyone asks you about your cue. Dave was introduced into making cues and how, by Stroud when he lived in CO. Never had seen full ivory tusks till I was at Billy home in Colorado Springs.
 
WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
The main reason you dont many three point cues is that most players prefer 4 points or more.
The cue makers will make what the pool players are buying.
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Unless you leave a good size distance between the points the inside of the points will hit each other. The market overall wants the points closer to each other than three gives. That is why 6 points are popular.
 
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