Too little deflection?

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Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Recently I heard some players say, including on here, that a shaft had too little deflection or that some amount of deflection was required for certain shots. Since I can't think of a situation where a shot "requires" deflection, do you have any concrete examples?

To be clear, I am asking about deflection not swerve, and it wasn't in the context of adjusting your aim either. I think it had something to do with creating an angle.


Julian
 
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A

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Catalin said:
Recently I heard some players say, including on here, that a shaft had too little deflection or that some amount of deflection was required for certain shots. Since I can't think of a situation where a shot "requires" deflection, do you have any concrete examples?

Julian
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I don't think some shots require deflection at all, if you are used to a certain amount of deflection then you will need "a getting used to" when changing to a low deflection shaft, but really I can't think of any situation where you need a deflection to make a certain shot.

Maybe you are mistaken with the swerve shot, if you mean swerve then yes, there are plenty of shots where you need to understand and have a good feeling of how much the cueball would swerve to make the shot, and in the same time, some shots cannot be made but in that situation you might need a little bit of swerve to make that shot, so if you mean swerve then yes, if you really mean deflection I can't think of any.
 
MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t think any shot would be impossible. It’s just a matter of adjusting your aim. But if you have your brain trained to a certain aim / alignment, too much or too little deflection will take you out of your comfort zone.

You know that shot where a ball is frozen to a rail, you have a 90 degree angle at it, you aim to miss the ball and you make it by spinning off the rail.

My old stick could pocket that shot by lining the edge of my stick to the edge of the ball with two tips of english. The aim had overlap but the deflection corrected that.

I miss that shot more often with my new LD shaft because that alignment is too fat. I need to aim outside more. So for that shot, my stick had too little deflection, subjectively to me.


Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Catalin said:
Recently I heard some players say, including on here, that a shaft had too little deflection or that some amount of deflection was required for certain shots. Since I can't think of a situation where a shot "requires" deflection, do you have any concrete examples?

Julian
Click to expand...

Straight in shots but you need running english ?
Too little deflection, you might scratch.
 
C

Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To be clear, I am asking about deflection not swerve, and it wasn't in the context of aiming. I think it had something to do with creating an angle.

Adjusting the original post to reflect that.

Julian
 
j2pac

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
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Catalin said:
Recently I heard some players say, including on here, that a shaft had too little deflection or that some amount of deflection was required for certain shots. Since I can't think of a situation where a shot "requires" deflection, do you have any concrete examples?

Julian
Click to expand...

I think the concept of deflection while valid, is entirely overblown. No table plays the same. No stick plays the same. The rails flex more, or perhaps less, some cloth is faster, or slower, some shaft tapers are etc, etc. My suggestion is always, find a cue that you like based on balance, feel, and hit. Some of these things are subjective, but it all plays some role. Practice, practice, practice, and then play, play, and play some more. FWIW, I hope you get a better answer than this to your question. :cool: :)
 
C

Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
Straight in shots but you need running english ?
Too little deflection, you might scratch.
Click to expand...
Hi Joey, I would say that has nothing to do with deflection. The result of deflection is the cue ball contacting the object ball in a different point than the one you are aiming at. With a cue that had 0 deflection, you could achieve the same thing by aiming directly at that point. In the end it's about cheating the pocket.

Julian
 
DynoDan

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
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Catalin said:
To be clear, I am asking about deflection not swerve, and it wasn't in the context of aiming. I think it had something to do with creating an angle.

Adjusting the original post to reflect that.

Julian
Click to expand...

While there may well be something to the ‘angle’ issue, I would say it is largely insignificant compared to the ‘aiming’ problem. IMO, any cue with enough deflection to effect the angle of contact to a real degree would likely be so inconsistent as to render ‘shot making’ with any english at all a total crap-shoot (unless distance/force were always exactly the same).
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
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Catalin said:
Recently I heard some players say, including on here, that a shaft had too little deflection or that some amount of deflection was required for certain shots. Since I can't think of a situation where a shot "requires" deflection, do you have any concrete examples?

To be clear, I am asking about deflection not swerve, and it wasn't in the context of adjusting your aim either. I think it had something to do with creating an angle.


Julian
Click to expand...

Couple of things. players, like me who enjoy deflection, use deflection, and incorporate deflection in the way we aim., It just looks right when you deflect into the ball. If you’re not a player who is used to deflection and maybe started out or got used to low deflection cues, then there is no difference. There’s no shot that needs deflection. But if you’re used to deflection, the shot comes off sweeter and nicer. The cueball is hit off center, it should squirt off.

Okay, there’s one rare shot that deflection really helps, but nothing to hang your hat on.

That’s my point of view.

Freddie <~~~~ reflectins of deflection
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

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DynoDan said:
While there may well be something to the ‘angle’ issue, I would say it is largely insignificant compared to the ‘aiming’ problem. IMO, any cue with enough deflection to effect the angle of contact to a real degree would likely be so inconsistent as to render ‘shot making’ with any english at all a total crap-shoot (unless distance/force were always exactly the same).
Click to expand...

Not true. That’s why Aim & Pivot systems and pivot points are so strong.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My personal opinion is that all this confusions stems from the fact that most players dont understand what Low Deflection is. They seem to think it's something like installing a turbo in a car - it's gonna give you more performance, or put in another way, buying a LD shaft will instantly make you a better player...
Strange ideas about how the equipment works, seems to be quite common. Yesterday I had a guy wanting a new tip. I asked what kind and he really liked the brand I installed last time, but wondered if he should choose the Soft variation this time, as the tip he had now was great for 8 ball, but didnt work for his 9 ball game...
This might be a bit of a extreme example, but I hear stuff like this all the time :D
 
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BRussell

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as I know, deflection acts just like aiming a little different, so you should always be able to recreate a little extra deflection just by aiming in the opposite direction of your english.

I like deflection on really thin cuts with inside english, like the “impossible cut shot” with the object ball frozen to a rail. You can aim close to where you would if there was zero deflection, and the deflection aims it even thinner. But it’s definitely possible to make the shot with a low deflection or (hypothetical) zero deflection cue.
 
DynoDan

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It’s a trade off. With no deflection, you couldn’t get around a ball (without jacking up and initiating a curved path), that would otherwise have you hooked. ‘Consistency’ is the issue. Knowing the exact maximum amount of deflection you can expect (no matter the force) allows hitting hard, table length shots precisely on target.
 
M

minh2015

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd seen the opposite, there are shots that can only be made with low deflection shaft.
 
M

minh2015

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cornerman said:
Can you give an example? I personally don’t believe it.
Click to expand...

When there's an obstacle ball frozen in front of the cue ball and a quarter ball off from the aim line. The only place to shoot the cue ball without jacking up is 1.5+ tip of english. If you try to adjust for deflection, you will miscue. If you jack up, things are limited.
 
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Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
minh2015 said:
When there's an obstacle ball frozen in front of the cue ball and a quarter ball off from the aim line. The only place to shoot the cue ball without jacking up is 1.5+ tip of english. If you try to adjust for deflection, you will miscue. If you jack up, things are limited.
Click to expand...

You’d need to show me on a table. Nothing here suggests low deflection is an advantage.

“Adjusting for deflection, you will miscue” has to be be false since they are not related.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Catalin said:
Recently I heard some players say, including on here, that a shaft had too little deflection or that some amount of deflection was required for certain shots. Since I can't think of a situation where a shot "requires" deflection, do you have any concrete examples?

To be clear, I am asking about deflection not swerve, and it wasn't in the context of adjusting your aim either. I think it had something to do with creating an angle.


Julian
Click to expand...

To me, if a person can't play at certain levels with deflection, well, taking deflection away probably will not keep their opponents in thei chair either.

As for your question, lots of valid answers above.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
minh2015 said:
When there's an obstacle ball frozen in front of the cue ball and a quarter ball off from the aim line. The only place to shoot the cue ball without jacking up is 1.5+ tip of english. If you try to adjust for deflection, you will miscue. If you jack up, things are limited.
Click to expand...

Your a tad off but I know exactly what your saying.
 
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