My GC3 project...

ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
here she is during install... Stil a couple issues, perfect after setup but a little settling has created a couple slight rolls, one set of side rails not lined up very well, But I'll get those fixed up. basement is still coming along two snow days got the bathroom completely finished, started crown molding yesterday, should be complete this weekend. Still have some electrical and finish trim to complete.

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ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Be patient.. electrical just completed last evening, still working on crown. Still no light but working on it.
 

ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll get some photos tonight...

On a brighter note I lost 50 pounds over the past year...
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fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Wow, great job!! You must feel great, I know I feel better every summer when I drop my usual 10-20 pounds. I was actually looking for pictures of the pool table and pool room though, some action photos would be good too. Nothing worse than someone that has a pool table that the cover never removed from.
 
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kickshotkid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll get some photos tonight...

On a brighter note I lost 50 pounds over the past year...
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Good for you!! Just getting things done over there brand new pool room and a brand new you, congrats!!:thumbup:
 
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ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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The table is my pride and joy but this is a close second. Custom made, self designed simple built in cue rack. A buddy of mine owns a complete wood shop. I handed him a print showed him the stain color and 3 days later it was done. I'll get some better photos later...

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Looking forward to the custom matching light. Gonna be done in bright LED strip and should be amazing. I actually have no idea how it will be but I gotta keep up the confidence. I keep doing stuff I have no idea how to do but it's all turning out great so far.
 

ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
table update...

One side rail not aligned very well and most importantly the rubber is loose! Not real happy about either and getting it resolved hasn't been met with a real sense of urgency. Called and text with a reply something like I'll call next week. How the Hell does the rubber come loose. Is it possible they didnt use contact cement? Can that go bad? Clearly loose. I can move several areas and this annoying popping noise when you hit the rail firmly with a ball. Is it possible to re use the rubber once cut? Either way must be re done and looking forward to seeing that get done.
 

ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rails are off... loose spots on all 6 rails?! not real happy, I understand things can happen but how does contact cement not adhere properly? I like my guy personally but it seemed he was prepared to peel back spots and hope glue could be tucked into the loose spots. I told him I would prefer the rubber was removed entirely and re applied. I just want it done right. Table has settled a bit and has some rolls, is it alright to ask him to re-level it when they put it all back together? Seems reasonable to have a table play the way i expect when it's finally completed correctly. I have limited options in this area for a pool table guy and I've known this guy personally for years. That dynamics makes part of my interaction with him easier and harder at the same time. I have to assume he would be embarrassed by this, if he's not then I guess he not who I thought he was. Hopefully it will be done soon and I'll have the table I always wanted.
 

JC

Coos Cues
rails are off... loose spots on all 6 rails?! not real happy, I understand things can happen but how does contact cement not adhere properly? I like my guy personally but it seemed he was prepared to peel back spots and hope glue could be tucked into the loose spots. I told him I would prefer the rubber was removed entirely and re applied. I just want it done right. Table has settled a bit and has some rolls, is it alright to ask him to re-level it when they put it all back together? Seems reasonable to have a table play the way i expect when it's finally completed correctly. I have limited options in this area for a pool table guy and I've known this guy personally for years. That dynamics makes part of my interaction with him easier and harder at the same time. I have to assume he would be embarrassed by this, if he's not then I guess he not who I thought he was. Hopefully it will be done soon and I'll have the table I always wanted.

In short, your table was set up by a likable hack. You have described failure on every important aspect of the job. Imagine how funky the things that aren't readily visible and identifiable are? Just for kicks I would love to see a photo of the facings under there. A dollar to doughnuts they look like a drunken beaver knawed them into shape.

I feel for you brother.
 

Poolhalljunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Time to call a professional.

rails are off... loose spots on all 6 rails?! not real happy, I understand things can happen but how does contact cement not adhere properly? I like my guy personally but it seemed he was prepared to peel back spots and hope glue could be tucked into the loose spots. I told him I would prefer the rubber was removed entirely and re applied. I just want it done right. Table has settled a bit and has some rolls, is it alright to ask him to re-level it when they put it all back together? Seems reasonable to have a table play the way i expect when it's finally completed correctly. I have limited options in this area for a pool table guy and I've known this guy personally for years. That dynamics makes part of my interaction with him easier and harder at the same time. I have to assume he would be embarrassed by this, if he's not then I guess he not who I thought he was. Hopefully it will be done soon and I'll have the table I always wanted.


This is where you decide if you want a buddy's help that you are willing to pay with limited expectations on quality, or just say thanks for your time here is what I feel is fair. Then make a call to one of the preferred Mechanics in your area with a solid reputation backed by other mechanics from this forum. In the end it sounds like you will be throwing good money after bad, all the time hoping it is right when in reality it isn't any where close.

A lot of people on this board have issues with some people on the ask a mechanic section, but they all have one thing in common they have high standard of what a table mechanic should deliver, quality the first time!

Good luck with your table. Just my .02
 
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ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hear y'all very clearly. At this point I am $600 into it and not paying another dime. This is supposed to be "the guy" in our immediate area. The cloth looks perfect, side pocket folds were outstanding, damned near invisible. Not sure how in the hell contact cement doesn't hold regardless of how it's applied. Although not too happy I am willing to let him make it right. I am holding out hope that he gets the rails done properly and gets them put back on before this weekend. My hope is that he completely removes the rubber and reapplies it, my expectation is he peels back one side of the cloth tilts out the bad spots applies some more glue and presses it together. I hope I am wrong, cutting corners at this point means I'll most likely have spots that either didnt get done or spots that will once again come loose down the road. Good news, it's a Gold crown and screwing it up beyond repair would be almost impossible.
 

ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just don't get it... But I may not be their average customer. Not that I am of superior intellect or anything but damn? Guys come back to re install the rails that the rubber was loose on and still a couple spots, small and probably not effecting anything but there's more. The center bolt on the foot rail wasn't in and the guy was like well it's damned near impossible to get it in there. I called bull shit and said that's how it's supposed to go together and I want it in there. His response it really doesnt matter. So I took a ball and rolled firmly into the rail near the pocket a couple times and asked him to listen to it. Then rolled it the same speed into the middle of that rail, right where the missing bolt was. Very distinctive difference, clearly something loose there. After 5 minutes the bolt was in place. I contacted the owner and told him that I wasnt trying to make a fuss but why bother doing something if you're not going to do it right. I know this guy have for years and told him that I was disappointed and thought they did good work. He of course defended their work but apologized anyway. Probably not using them again. I'll be watching the loose spots on my rubber if they get worse things may get nasty. Freakin contact cement! applied properly should hold damned near for ever. I just don't get it. Table plays better and is basically what I always wanted with only the slightest concern. Only after calling them back and taking 2 weeks to correct the issue.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
I just don't get it... But I may not be their average customer. Not that I am of superior intellect or anything but damn? Guys come back to re install the rails that the rubber was loose on and still a couple spots, small and probably not effecting anything but there's more. The center bolt on the foot rail wasn't in and the guy was like well it's damned near impossible to get it in there. I called bull shit and said that's how it's supposed to go together and I want it in there. His response it really doesnt matter. So I took a ball and rolled firmly into the rail near the pocket a couple times and asked him to listen to it. Then rolled it the same speed into the middle of that rail, right where the missing bolt was. Very distinctive difference, clearly something loose there. After 5 minutes the bolt was in place. I contacted the owner and told him that I wasnt trying to make a fuss but why bother doing something if you're not going to do it right. I know this guy have for years and told him that I was disappointed and thought they did good work. He of course defended their work but apologized anyway. Probably not using them again. I'll be watching the loose spots on my rubber if they get worse things may get nasty. Freakin contact cement! applied properly should hold damned near for ever. I just don't get it. Table plays better and is basically what I always wanted with only the slightest concern. Only after calling them back and taking 2 weeks to correct the issue.


Maybe they didn't clean off the subrails before applying fresh contact cement and applying the cushions. Or, maybe they only applied the contact cement to one surface, and not the other.. Being made aware of the shortcut they tried to take with the missing bolt, I'm sure there are other shortcuts they took along the way.

It is entirely possible that the mechanic truly believed that the missing bolt wasn't necessary, but that's the scariest part. There are a lot of people out there, making their living working on tables, that just don't know any better. But, there are also a lot of table owners out there, that wouldn't know the difference between a good playing table and a bad one. So, I guess there is a mechanic for every buyer. The trouble is in getting the right mechanic matched with the right buyer.

Regardless of what the cause is, in your case, I hope you find some resolution.
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
I just don't get it... But I may not be their average customer. Not that I am of superior intellect or anything but damn? Guys come back to re install the rails that the rubber was loose on and still a couple spots, small and probably not effecting anything but there's more. The center bolt on the foot rail wasn't in and the guy was like well it's damned near impossible to get it in there. I called bull shit and said that's how it's supposed to go together and I want it in there. His response it really doesnt matter. So I took a ball and rolled firmly into the rail near the pocket a couple times and asked him to listen to it. Then rolled it the same speed into the middle of that rail, right where the missing bolt was. Very distinctive difference, clearly something loose there. After 5 minutes the bolt was in place. I contacted the owner and told him that I wasnt trying to make a fuss but why bother doing something if you're not going to do it right. I know this guy have for years and told him that I was disappointed and thought they did good work. He of course defended their work but apologized anyway. Probably not using them again. I'll be watching the loose spots on my rubber if they get worse things may get nasty. Freakin contact cement! applied properly should hold damned near for ever. I just don't get it. Table plays better and is basically what I always wanted with only the slightest concern. Only after calling them back and taking 2 weeks to correct the issue.

ND fan.

Bummer man, Believe me bud, I feel for your situation. Bradsh98 above my post makes a good point. Nobody here at this point can offer any further insight beyond what has already been said previously in this thread. Truly bud, I'm not trying to rub salt on the wound or throw out the old "They told you so", but maybe revisiting this thread from the beginning now that you've been down this road will hit home a little deeper. I understand the mindset that "It's just a pool table and shouldn't be rocket science".

So now your almost back to where you started and at the crossroads. You have a few options at this point, unfortunately none of those options are going to be inexpensive and/or easy. One of those options is the cheaper option yet comes with the highest of gambles, and that route is the "do it yourself". As long as you don't get into cutting on any wood, there's really not much major damage (but the possibility is still there) you could do that could not be corrected by a rail engineer (unfortunately your situation requires cutting wood for proper correction of todays cushions insuring correct, proper play characteristics). However should this route not work out, your out your product costs and your time, plus any hair you pull out in the process. I went this route and for me it worked out, but I may have just got lucky as I've read of so many horror stories from failed/botched DIY table projects. Also my table was built to accept k-66 cushions which are widely available, so my replacement was a simple remove and replace.

Again, another scenario that could play out here is. Say you find a pretty damn good mechanic that can correct the issues your facing now. Say his costs come in at another 200-500 or more dollars to correct the previous botched rubber install. And after you pay him and are pleased with his work, but suddenly now discover your rails just aren't playing/banking the way you think they should, or you go to a few poolrooms and realize those tables play drastically different from yours. here you are back to unhappyville with what you have.

The option your trying to avoid like the plague at this point IS* your best option by far and would net you many, many years of the best possible play from your equipment. This is the expensive option that will most likely equal the purchase cost you have in the table alone. That option is sending the rails out to one of the elite rail guys (what I call rail engineers) that have been mentioned over and over. These guys work on the equipment you own everyday, know the rails quirks and design shortcomings and know every trick of the trade that is not written in any book or forum. I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for these guys by any means, but when you want the best results they can deliver. Spread that cost out over the 15-30-50 years of enjoyment and excellent playability and that cost isn't as much as it sounds up front.

Again, I'm not trying to rub salt on your wounds or kick a man when he's down. I sure hope you don't take it that way. I'm just trying to help a fellow enthusiast achieve his dream home pool room as I did with mine (although mine is yet to be fully completed until a new Diamond Pro-am is installed). I wish you the best of luck in resolving your issues.

Dopc.

P.S. I sent you a private message a few weeks ago and never heard back, I hope you got them.
 
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matteroner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO contact cement is crap for rubber. The scotchweld 3m10 work amazing. Sorry for your disaster install, but you were warned.

In the end; the cheap comes out expensive!
 

lumberman

Registered
Actually contact cement works well with rubber. It's just that you need to choose the right one depending on the application it is to be used with. 3m scotch-weld 10 IS a contact cement and would probably be the most appropriate and strongest one to use in a cushion rubber mount application. I have used it a few times now, thanks to the information available in this forum.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
IMO contact cement is crap for rubber. The scotchweld 3m10 work amazing. Sorry for your disaster install, but you were warned.

In the end; the cheap comes out expensive!

This post is not helpful to this thread in any way.

This gentleman asked us for help, so that he could do the work himself. In the end, he decided to have the best mechanic in his area, someone the OP has known for many years, do the work instead. It is not the OP's fault this job didn't go according to plan.

Further, as lumberman stated, 3M-10 IS contact cement, but it is not THE ONLY neoprene contact cement available. There are alternatives that work just as well, and cost less. So, to suggest that not using 3M-10 is the cause of this issue is just silly.
 

ND Fan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not to worry... I got a thicker skin than that. Random internet forum stuff doesn't really phase me. I got the best guy in our area, they have been in business for decades, on their third generation. But the youngest have taken over and while they are in their 40's they just don't have that absolute mindset where quality is job one. Didn't know that when I called them. But it's pretty obvious now. Pretty sure having never done rail work before I could have gotten them to stick solidly even if they were wrong. But my end result is a table that plays just the way I want it to right now. Still concerned about the two spots I found and I'll be watching them closely. It's a dream come true for me and I am happy after the headaches and waiting. So it's all good.
 
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