My GC3 project...

ND Fan · Aug 3, 2013

Last week I drove 3.5 hours each way haulin a uhaul trailer to pick what I had hoped would be my dream table. The Craigslist photos weren't very revealing, kinda dark but enough to peek my interest. When I arrived my expectations were exceeded. The table was the beautiful factory rosewood finish. It had a couple little nicks and scratches but was 8.5 out of ten on finish. everything was assembled properly the slates looked to be factory new even the wood on the rails is hardly touched. It is clear this 35 year old sweetheart has only been covered twice. So the wood is perfect. The only thing is the cushions are dead. I am trying to put this all together on a budget. I am not just throwing $1000 at a mechanic to fix everything and put her in place. I kinda want the experience. I am rather capable, I have been blessed with the ability to fix almost anything most of my life. Probably stemming from years of tearing everything I could find apart as a kid.

My questions are as follows...

What rubber should I buy? Artemis, seems the obvious choice but since I am doing it I not keen on making a $350 mistake. I am interested in a well playing table, perfect isn't worth the price and perfect really isn't attainable. Thinking about championship tour edition rubber and cloth.

Seam material? Wax, water putty, Bondo? Which one and why?

Cloth? There is a no name worsted on Ebay for $100, I am not seriously considering it but I was curious, they claim to compare to simonis for 1/3 the cost 90% wool. Called a buddy of mine who owns a room, he recommended Championship tour edition. 24 oz cloth he says I probably never have to replace it, he tried it and was surprise by its wear after a year, he said it rolls nice like 860 but it less likely to chip or tear. I have kids that will be learning on it.

Anything I should be aware of ? Anything I just flat out shouldn't do and let the pros handle it?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

ROB.M · Aug 3, 2013

Table

ND Fan said:
Last week I drove 3.5 hours each way haulin a uhaul trailer to pick what I had hoped would be my dream table. The Craigslist photos weren't very revealing, kinda dark but enough to peek my interest. When I arrived my expectations were exceeded. The table was the beautiful factory rosewood finish. It had a couple little nicks and scratches but was 8.5 out of ten on finish. everything was assembled properly the slates looked to be factory new even the wood on the rails is hardly touched. It is clear this 35 year old sweetheart has only been covered twice. So the wood is perfect. The only thing is the cushions are dead. I am trying to put this all together on a budget. I am not just throwing $1000 at a mechanic to fix everything and put her in place. I kinda want the experience. I am rather capable, I have been blessed with the ability to fix almost anything most of my life. Probably stemming from years of tearing everything I could find apart as a kid.

My questions are as follows...

What rubber should I buy? Artemis, seems the obvious choice but since I am doing it I not keen on making a $350 mistake. I am interested in a well playing table, perfect isn't worth the price and perfect really isn't attainable. Thinking about championship tour edition rubber and cloth.

Seam material? Wax, water putty, Bondo? Which one and why?

Cloth? There is a no name worsted on Ebay for $100, I am not seriously considering it but I was curious, they claim to compare to simonis for 1/3 the cost 90% wool. Called a buddy of mine who owns a room, he recommended Championship tour edition. 24 oz cloth he says I probably never have to replace it, he tried it and was surprise by its wear after a year, he said it rolls nice like 860 but it less likely to chip or tear. I have kids that will be learning on it.

Anything I should be aware of ? Anything I just flat out shouldn't do and let the pros handle it?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

-

Is there a app for that?

Rob.M

fastone371 · Aug 3, 2013

ND Fan said:
Last week I drove 3.5 hours each way haulin a uhaul trailer to pick what I had hoped would be my dream table. The Craigslist photos weren't very revealing, kinda dark but enough to peek my interest. When I arrived my expectations were exceeded. The table was the beautiful factory rosewood finish. It had a couple little nicks and scratches but was 8.5 out of ten on finish. everything was assembled properly the slates looked to be factory new even the wood on the rails is hardly touched. It is clear this 35 year old sweetheart has only been covered twice. So the wood is perfect. The only thing is the cushions are dead. I am trying to put this all together on a budget. I am not just throwing $1000 at a mechanic to fix everything and put her in place. I kinda want the experience. I am rather capable, I have been blessed with the ability to fix almost anything most of my life. Probably stemming from years of tearing everything I could find apart as a kid.

My questions are as follows...

What rubber should I buy? Artemis, seems the obvious choice but since I am doing it I not keen on making a $350 mistake. I am interested in a well playing table, perfect isn't worth the price and perfect really isn't attainable. Thinking about championship tour edition rubber and cloth.

Seam material? Wax, water putty, Bondo? Which one and why?

Cloth? There is a no name worsted on Ebay for $100, I am not seriously considering it but I was curious, they claim to compare to simonis for 1/3 the cost 90% wool. Called a buddy of mine who owns a room, he recommended Championship tour edition. 24 oz cloth he says I probably never have to replace it, he tried it and was surprise by its wear after a year, he said it rolls nice like 860 but it less likely to chip or tear. I have kids that will be learning on it.

Anything I should be aware of ? Anything I just flat out shouldn't do and let the pros handle it?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

I just finished up mine in Feb of this year, there are pictures of it if you go to my profile. Mine is a GCII, it had Brunswick Superspeeds on it which is not the same as a K66 or K55 so my subrails had to be calibrated for current cushion profiles. Even though I have a good inventory of woodworking tools this is not a project I would have even considered doing myself. I shipped my rails out and they came back recalibrated, covered, and with new Artemis rubber, I could not be more pleased with the way the table plays. I used Simonis cloth, why try to save money on something that should last over 5 years?? The only thing I wish that I had not done myself was install the bed cloth, the only reason that I did it myself was that I could not find someone that I trusted in my area to install the Simonis cloth, I even went to our closest pool hall which has 25-30+ Gold Crowns but after seeing the cloth jobs on these tables that is not how I wanted mine to look. The next time I recover the table I will hire someone from these forums and pay them the travel money to do it. Mine turned out ok but you can feel the cloth moving a little under your bridge hand sometimes if you slide it around the side pocket area. I bought the Simonis installation DVD and everything but it is something that you probably need to do at least 10 times to start getting proficient at. Personally I do not think trying to save money on your table installation is a good idea if you want your table to play and look nice, and why would you want to cut corners when you have a top of the line commercial table????

ND Fan · Aug 3, 2013

To be honest The money matters to me but truly the experience is why I am doing it. I'd rather know my table inside and out, down the road when i need something done i can have full confidence in being able to do it. Worst case scenario is I screw up and it cost me $800 to correct it. My rails are the original superspeed but they are K55. I'd rather try and fail than not try at all. I've won and lost all my life and I think I learn far more from losing but I believe I have the skills to do this as well as anyone. It'll take me longer than a pro, but it'll be worth it...

BTW your table looks great! How tight are those pockets? I am not going that tight, I want my buddies and my kiddos to enjoy the game.

JC · Aug 3, 2013

dontlitethat said:
-

Is there a app for that?

Rob.M

Unfortunately you will mostly get this type of answer from the actual professionals on this forum. Every once in a while they slip up and let out some good stuff and over time it has left a pretty good record here. So I would advise searching the archives instead of setting yourself up for ridicule by starting a thread.

JC

ND Fan · Aug 3, 2013

Apparently the term professional and it's definition is lost on many. If I am setting myself up for ridicule by asking a legitimate question then this isn't the useful resource I thought it might be. I guess I should not have bothered but I'll get it done, with or without the help. I'll appreciate any advice but I got a thick enough skin to take any BS a bunch of random internet strangers can throw at me.

Dartman · Aug 3, 2013

For the cloth install get the Simonis DVD. Excellent training tool.
Based on your OP you will do fine with K55 cushions, i.e. Diamond Black or ProForm.
No need to get uber-fancy.
I'd suggest staying away from cloth on eBay. Stick with Simonis 860 as you won't find any cloth
manufacturer with better quality control. Shop around for best price. Some peeps tout Tour Edition
but be aware it's made in Mexico for Championship. Decent cloth but not in the same ballpark as Simonis.
Get a quart of 3M-10 Scotchweld for installing cushions and cloth.
As previously mentioned there have been several good threads similar to your project so you should be able to find adequate help.
Superglue and Bondo the slate seams. This will prevent any movement of the slate. Superglueing has been addressed
in the past so try a search and if that fails post a separate thread.
Good luck.

realkingcobra · Aug 3, 2013

ND Fan said:
Last week I drove 3.5 hours each way haulin a uhaul trailer to pick what I had hoped would be my dream table. The Craigslist photos weren't very revealing, kinda dark but enough to peek my interest. When I arrived my expectations were exceeded. The table was the beautiful factory rosewood finish. It had a couple little nicks and scratches but was 8.5 out of ten on finish. everything was assembled properly the slates looked to be factory new even the wood on the rails is hardly touched. It is clear this 35 year old sweetheart has only been covered twice. So the wood is perfect. The only thing is the cushions are dead. I am trying to put this all together on a budget. I am not just throwing $1000 at a mechanic to fix everything and put her in place. I kinda want the experience. I am rather capable, I have been blessed with the ability to fix almost anything most of my life. Probably stemming from years of tearing everything I could find apart as a kid.

My questions are as follows...

What rubber should I buy? Artemis, seems the obvious choice but since I am doing it I not keen on making a $350 mistake. I am interested in a well playing table, perfect isn't worth the price and perfect really isn't attainable. Thinking about championship tour edition rubber and cloth.

Seam material? Wax, water putty, Bondo? Which one and why?

Cloth? There is a no name worsted on Ebay for $100, I am not seriously considering it but I was curious, they claim to compare to simonis for 1/3 the cost 90% wool. Called a buddy of mine who owns a room, he recommended Championship tour edition. 24 oz cloth he says I probably never have to replace it, he tried it and was surprise by its wear after a year, he said it rolls nice like 860 but it less likely to chip or tear. I have kids that will be learning on it.

Anything I should be aware of ? Anything I just flat out shouldn't do and let the pros handle it?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Call me, I'll try to answer some of your questions over the phone.

Glen 702-927-5689

ROB.M · Aug 4, 2013

Table

realkingcobra said:
Call me, I'll try to answer some of your questions over the phone.

Glen 702-927-5689

/\click above.limited time free app, the one I was referring to.

Enjoy.
Rob.M

fastone371 · Aug 4, 2013

ND Fan said:
To be honest The money matters to me but truly the experience is why I am doing it. I'd rather know my table inside and out, down the road when i need something done i can have full confidence in being able to do it. Worst case scenario is I screw up and it cost me $800 to correct it. My rails are the original superspeed but they are K55. I'd rather try and fail than not try at all. I've won and lost all my life and I think I learn far more from losing but I believe I have the skills to do this as well as anyone. It'll take me longer than a pro, but it'll be worth it...

BTW your table looks great! How tight are those pockets? I am not going that tight, I want my buddies and my kiddos to enjoy the game.

Thank you for the compliment on the table. The pockets are 4 3/8". Even though I did not do the rails it was a lot of work, it started out as a very nice, original, 2 owner GCII that had only been recovered once. The gentleman who I bought it from had bought the table from its original purchaser, its been privately owned its whole life. It was all white, I stained the blinds, which was a project because they are Maple and it was tough to get them to absorb stain, and I stained the outer portions of the legs which was easy, they and the ball box are Poplar. if yours is a GCIII I think its already stained and should have the gold castings on it. I am guessing if I really wanted to I could have stumbled my way through the whole project myself, I think I have all of the tools and equipment, I just did not want the table down for such a long period of time. As it was it took me a month just to do what I did to it, the table was already up and in use when I recovered it. When I looked at it investment wise, I figured out my time was better spent doing what I do (custom metal fabrication) and letting the professionals take care of the table. If you can, it would be neat for you to document your progress and share them with photos.

obe1 · Aug 4, 2013

Gc refinn

Helluva job on your table Fastone...Really a nice looking GC from the picture on your avatar. Where are you located in WI?

Richard

fastone371 said:
Thank you for the compliment on the table. The pockets are 4 3/8". Even though I did not do the rails it was a lot of work, it started out as a very nice, original, 2 owner GCII that had only been recovered once. The gentleman who I bought it from had bought the table from its original purchaser, its been privately owned its whole life. It was all white, I stained the blinds, which was a project because they are Maple and it was tough to get them to absorb stain, and I stained the outer portions of the legs which was easy, they and the ball box are Poplar. if yours is a GCIII I think its already stained and should have the gold castings on it. I am guessing if I really wanted to I could have stumbled my way through the whole project myself, I think I have all of the tools and equipment, I just did not want the table down for such a long period of time. As it was it took me a month just to do what I did to it, the table was already up and in use when I recovered it. When I looked at it investment wise, I figured out my time was better spent doing what I do (custom metal fabrication) and letting the professionals take care of the table. If you can, it would be neat for you to document your progress and share them with photos.

fastone371 · Aug 4, 2013

obe1 said:
Helluva job on your table Fastone...Really a nice looking GC from the picture on your avatar. Where are you located in WI?

Richard

Thank you very much! I am in Theresa which is about 35 miles northwest of Milwaukee. If you are familiar with the area its just north of halfway between Milwaukee and Fond du lac along Hwy 41

obe1 · Aug 4, 2013

Gc- done right

Somerset...next to st paul

ND Fan · Aug 4, 2013

Thinking about doing the floor in tile under and around the table to avoid the common wear and stain area that would be created on carpet. I believe the feet on my table are just metal, should I get a some thin neoprene circles to go under the feet and act like a coaster? I think without it the table could move around a bit on a slick surface. On other thing, are the legs supposed to be wobbly? seems to me there is quite a bit of play in the legs. I'll shoot a video of the leg wobble later. they all do it and nothing is apparently broken.

Tony_in_MD · Aug 5, 2013

Ball return or Drop pocket?

If a ball return table be sure that the tracks are setup correctly so that you don't have balls falling out of the tracks onto your new floor. It is possible to chip or crack a tile.

I have a wood floor directly under the table with carpet around it. I went with the carpet to be easier on my legs. The way I have it setup makes it easy to replace the carpet without having to fuss with the table.

I did not put anything under the feet of my table, as such the table can slide a bit, but it takes a heck of a push to do so. The table does not slide around unless you really want it too.

As far as what you are seeing with the movement in the legs of the table, I have no idea.

Good luck with your project and I hope to see you post pictures of the progress.

ND Fan said:
Thinking about doing the floor in tile under and around the table to avoid the common wear and stain area that would be created on carpet. I believe the feet on my table are just metal, should I get a some thin neoprene circles to go under the feet and act like a coaster? I think without it the table could move around a bit on a slick surface. On other thing, are the legs supposed to be wobbly? seems to me there is quite a bit of play in the legs. I'll shoot a video of the leg wobble later. they all do it and nothing is apparently broken.

realkingcobra · Aug 5, 2013

ND Fan said:
Thinking about doing the floor in tile under and around the table to avoid the common wear and stain area that would be created on carpet. I believe the feet on my table are just metal, should I get a some thin neoprene circles to go under the feet and act like a coaster? I think without it the table could move around a bit on a slick surface. On other thing, are the legs supposed to be wobbly? seems to me there is quite a bit of play in the legs. I'll shoot a video of the leg wobble later. they all do it and nothing is apparently broken.

I take it you're talking about the leg levers being able to be moved around pretty easy while they're not supporting any of the weight of the table.

Glen

ND Fan · Aug 5, 2013

Just got off the phone with Glenn, great guy, answered many of my questions and seemed happy to do it. The information in that one phone call made me realize just how much I don't know. He was a wealth of information and by the time I am done he'll probably block my number from his cell phone. But I wanted to him to know just how much I appreciated his insight and patience. Thank you for taking the time. :thumbup:

JC · Aug 5, 2013

ND Fan said:
The information in that one phone call made me realize just how much I don't know.

That's the whole point silly.

I like the phone call idea generated by a public forum though. That way the same questions can be asked here over and over again without ever being able to search the archives for answers. Then the whole phone call/realize how much you don't know program can be repeated with infinite others in the future.

Since you got all that nice info by phone it probably would have been enough to give a verbal thank you before hanging up the call.

Future searches for the same thing here will produce the information that one needs to make a phone call to get answers. Just like a forum is supposed to work. Oh wait, I'm thinking of an advertisement not a forum........

JC

ND Fan · Aug 5, 2013

Just being polite and giving credit where credit is due... I found his answers rather helpful. My biggest issue was the local guy that I plan on having setting my table told me he would use K66 rubber when I thought I had it all figured out that K55 was the way to go for GC3. I may just do the whole thing myself. I was a machinist for several years and have an attention to detail I think is required to complete the task at hand. Glen was certain about the k55, good enough for me.

ND Fan · Aug 5, 2013

I completely understand why all the confusion k55 or k66. I know for certain the rubber on my rails now is factory original, I removed one the other night and closely measure it this evening. The problem is the back measures exactly the spec for the K55 1 5/16" and the crown measures exactly the spec for the K66 1 1/8" But I am measuring the crown not nose height. See below...

The nose height on the original is only 1" give or take .05. It doesn't make much sense.

My GC3 project...

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