My Simonis cloth plays extremely slow? Help or Advice Appreciated

jtothea

Registered
Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.
Very obvious to tell the difference between the two sides of Simonis cloth. The correct side is very smooth, finished and shiny as opposed to the down side. If a table mechanic made the mistake of installing Simonis upside down, it was likely the first time they had ever seen and used Simonis.

If you look at the close-up photo of post #3 in the Cyclop Hyperion Pool Balls thread, that is what the top side of new Simonis 860 Tournament Blue should look like.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Very obvious to tell the difference between the two sides of Simonis cloth. The correct side is very smooth, finished and shiny as opposed to the down side. If a table mechanic made the mistake of installing Simonis upside down, it was likely the first time they had ever seen and used Simonis.

If you look at the close-up photo of post #3 in the Cyclop Hyperion Pool Balls thread, that is what the top side of new Simonis 860 Tournament Blue should look like.
I thought that Simonis also has the name stamped around the edge on the side that is supposed to go up.

Another factor might be how tightly they stretched it when they put it on. The top installers I've seen work really hard at getting the cloth tight.

The OP might also try the Ask a Mechanic forum.
 

jtothea

Registered
Thanks for you alls input. I did't want to question the installers knowledge because they are reputable but it just plays uncharacteristically slow to me. I'm just a decent recreational player but I know the difference between how quality cues feel and how tables play to some degree.
Here are some pics of the cloth.
 

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WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
I thought that Simonis also has the name stamped around the edge on the side that is supposed to go up.

Another factor might be how tightly they stretched it when they put it on. The top installers I've seen work really hard at getting the cloth tight.

The OP might also try the Ask a Mechanic forum.

Correct. Simonis is on the top side, should be obvious to the installer.

One not so obvious point is that Simonis stretches out fairly quickly, and that's not good for maintaining speed, as it gets loose over time. If you can feel it moving around underneath your hand, then it will lose speed.

All the best,
WW
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Humidity slows tables a lot. Also room air condition can slow them also.
Try get room temperature up if cool.
Simonis 860 especially is slow if there is a lot humidity. 860 HR is better for those but only about 2 - 3 months after that it seems to play same as normal 860.
My local pool room has a really cool air condition and tables are cellar floor. They play always really slow. No matter what you try.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
860 does slow down A LOT over time. If you're used to 760, you'll be shocked at how fast 860 loses it's speed and becomes basically a rug. Which is quite interesting, because in the beginning it's lightening fast. 760 starts out being unplayably fast, then gradually becomes better (IMO) and then maintains a nice speed with some slowness creeping in, until it falls apart. If you somehow manage to keep it from falling apart and wear it paper thin it will actually speed up in the end!

Humidity will slow down cloth, but especially cloth with high wool content, like 860. Keep it dry and reasonably warm in your room. If the cloth has gotten loose, it can be restretched. Probably not worth it to pay for that, but if you have the guts to do it yourself, it may be worth it. Could give the cloth new life. Also, worsted cloth can be carefully cleaned with a barely moist microfiber cloth, but doing so will temporarily slow down the speed of it. Some people do this way to often (shouldn't need to do this more than maybe once a month). Ideally do it after you're done playing, so the cloth dries out before you play next time).

Generally speaking, thicker slated tables tend to let the ball roll longer, and fast rails will give an illusion of faster cloth, so both those are factors that may play a role in your perceived difference between the pool hall and your house. My money is on 1: Plain old 860 wear induced slowness, 2. Humidity, 3 loose cloth, 4 all of the above.
 

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
Can someone post a pic of what it looks like when the cloth is installed upside down? The pool room here recently recovered one of their tables in the normal green 860 HR and I'm not bullshittin it has more nap on it than any Simonis I've ever seen,so either they got bad cloth or the local they let install it did it wrong :confused:. Tommy D.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.
From you photo you included on post #4, you can be assured the correct side is on top. Only issues relating to the speed of the cloth could be: Balls not being clean, cloth wasn't stretched on as tight as possible, humid conditions in the room it's in, or cushion rubbers that are not playing lively - although that would still not affect how fast the balls roll on the cloth.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can someone post a pic of what it looks like when the cloth is installed upside down? The pool room here recently recovered one of their tables in the normal green 860 HR and I'm not bullshittin it has more nap on it than any Simonis I've ever seen,so either they got bad cloth or the local they let install it did it wrong :confused:. Tommy D.
A number of years ago, at the BCA Junior Nationals held at a major university poolroom, all 20+ tables were re-covered with new Simonis (one of the sponsors of the event) that was installed upside-down by local installers that clearly had no idea what they were doing. As there was no time or cloth to make the correction, the entire tournament was played on the upside-down Simonis cloth. The down side of Simonis actually looks a lot like the old fuzzier mali cloth used to look on the correct up side.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
From you photo you included on post #4, you can be assured the correct side is on top. Only issues relating to the speed of the cloth could be: Balls not being clean, cloth wasn't stretched on as tight as possible, humid conditions in the room it's in, or cushion rubbers that are not playing lively - although that would still not affect how fast the balls roll on the cloth.

I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.
 

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can you cut a small piece of cloth hanging somewhere around the edge of the slate? From a small piece it's pretty obvious which side should be up, the up side is much smoother than the down and the down side's a bit fuzzy.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.

Thank's for the expert opinion. I wanted to chime in because my Simonis does NOT look like this guys, and I know mine is correct. So, either wrong cloth or incorrectly installed. I'd be calling this installer up right away to re-do this.
 
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pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I’m going with wrong cloth
...and have it restretched

Do not use the same billiard mechanic
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.

Omg, I think you might be right! Looking at the biggest picture, it does indeed seem to be upside down! If true, that mechanic should be hung, drawn and quartered! It's tough to tell from a picture, but really easy when you hold it in your hands and look at it in person.
This is right side up.

See if you can get to a piece of cloth by going underneath the table, and feel it. The down side should feel rougher and fuzzier. The other side should feel smoother, with more even texture.
 

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jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.

Where are you located? I ask because I had 760 installerd on my table by the "best installer" with in a few states and it was really slow. This is not a good thing on a 10' table for sure
Jason
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.
It's just hard to tell from a photo. The two smaller photos on the bottom sure like the top (correct) side to me, but the larger photo above it, not so much. I have a 4x4 piece of 860HR in front of me right now, and there is a clear difference between the up and down sides. No matter how the rail cloths were cut off of either a 78" wide bolt or a 66" wide bolt, if they didn't waste any cloth and usually the way they send it you can't, as Bob stated in an earlier post, you should see the Iwan Simonis script stamp as well as the printed stamp on the underside of either one, two, or four of the six rail cloths.
 
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