Opinions on pros wrecking local tourneys

m79a said:

What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

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Modified DKO and NOT making the payout top heavy helps.

Need some good players around.They show the way.

Why worry about it, at any given time, everyone is ready to lose. No matter what the situation, I look forward to playing better players. If they choose to play in a field that is simple for them it's their choice. I think they only thing they improve by doing this is a small bump in cash flow.

If i get to shoot with a pro for a 10-15$ tourney entry fee, I consider that fantastic. Money well spent.

Most cheapy tourneys are short races, (races to 3 or 4), I feel that I could beat anyone, every now and then, in that short of a race.

m79a said:

What do you think ...Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

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Trust me...the 'chump change' is needed...it is called grindin' it out!

These guys do a little risk/ reward analysis, ya know.

m79a said:

What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

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The best way to look at it is that for $5 to $20 (however much the entry fee is) you get to play someone that good and can learn a lot from them. Other people have to spend a lot more than that by gambling or playing in a large event to play against better players and you're getting off by only paying a small weekly tournament entry fee.

If the owner of the establishment doesn't want pro & pro level players in their weekly tournament then they need to state that it is an amateur only event. The mgt/TD will have the right to decide who is a pro or pro level player or who isn't.

For the record, action isn't abundant in many places and there aren't exactly a whole lot of high level, higher paying tournaments going on at the moment. Guys that decide to play pool for a living have to feed themselves and pay their bills just like anyone else. In times like these, the "chump change" tournaments are their "bread & butter" so to speak.

I remember another thread about this recently, and in it people suggested the winner sits out the next week. That has helped some of the complaints.

Here is my option on this! In the little town I play at we have an open/handicapped $10 entry tournament every Saturday that brings in player from everywhere.We have had pro's such as Bob Vanover,CJ Wiley, Rodger Griffis, and others non-pro's such as Kid Delicious, James Walden, Jeff Melton, Fargo, and Jim McDermott from Magoo's. Since the room opened in 1986 this tournament is still pulling in 25 players a week end and as high as 52 one week end. Our local players range from Grandmasters to C-players. Playing better players has improved the caliber of players in our area. I venture to say that we have improved from 10% A-players to about 70% today. Yes, it was slow in the beginning to convince a C-player that they weren't wasting their time and money, but for $10 a week where can you get cheep lesson like that.

I have been on the management side also, so I under their view if it is hurting their business. But if you have top players willing to help others it will work out in the long run. This is what has helped our tournament build bringing in new players and built our leagues.

I have been asked not to play in local tourney's before and it sucks. First of all I am not that good,yes I can get hot like anyone else and win a tourney or five but not even close to a low pro. Second I worked hard to get my game up there and for a bar owner or TD to ask me not to play is wrong after I have gone as far as to get to the tourney in the first place.

Most weekly tournys are short races,that is probably the best chance to put a notch on your belt,all they can do is run out and most players where I play run out also.So no it does not bother me,I like taking a shot at them in a short race

We used to have a weekly 9 Ball tournament on Thursday evenings. Entry fee was ten bucks. Our local Pro would show up every now and then, and offtimes win, but no one seemed to care. They paid pretty deep into the field, which I imagine probably helped.

That is why they call it "open" tournament. Who doesn't want to match up against the best. I played a tournament at Kolby's in Tempe Az and Scott Frost was there I remember saying to myself I hope I draw him. Here in South Dakota once and awhile Shane Van Boening show up here for a tournament and I would love to draw him as well. The pros that play local tournaments should be commended they put themselves out there to be ridiculed. Imagine they are playing some local twig race to 3 and get beat. How many times are you going to hear that "twig" say "I beat SVB" or "I unplugged the freezer" Most people forget that most of the pros started off just like all of us playing cheap touraments and leagues. So I think since they remember their roots the pros are welcome to play in as many local tournaments as they want to and in fact invite your pro friends to come down as well.

Chad Barber

For the kind of entry fees you're talking about, I consider it a cheap education. And who knows, in a short 3 or 4 game race, maybe you pull a surprise on someone.

Like some others said, the best way to alleviate the problem is to pay bit deeper in the field. That gives the lesser skilled players a little something to put in their pockets for the ride home. There are a lot of players that consider it a good day if they played all day and went home even.

m79a said:

Thanks for the perspective guys. I really don't care either way personally. I've just heard several people at tourneys complain about so and so showing up and nobody can beat them. I'm not good enough yet to worry that much about who I play. I'm usually to busy beating my self.

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I'll bet the ones complaining are the ones that win every week and can't win if a good players shows up!

m79a said:

I've just heard several people at tourneys complain...

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That is the one constant in tournaments... someone is always going to complain.

There is a local ($10 entry fee) tournament in this area played 4 times a year. They usually get around 40 players in a no handicap short race to two in 8-ball, double elimination. They only pay out 3 (sometimes 4) places with the winner usually getting up to $300. Since the house adds a $10 voucher for each player, every one wins (or at least breaks even), the house sells a lot of beer/liquor and a good time is had by all ! HOWEVER, even though it is a short race, the "cream" usually comes to the top and the "semi-pros" usually win the $300 1st place prize. One time a "pro" had just come from the U.S. Open 9-ball tournament and placed and cashed $600. He then proceeded to win this tournament (another $300 "chump change").

Right or Wrong ?????

UrackmIcrackm said:

The best way to look at it is that for $5 to $20 (however much the entry fee is) you get to play someone that good and can learn a lot from them. Other people have to spend a lot more than that by gambling or playing in a large event to play against better players and you're getting off by only paying a small weekly tournament entry fee.

If the owner of the establishment doesn't want pro & pro level players in their weekly tournament then they need to state that it is an amateur only event. The mgt/TD will have the right to decide who is a pro or pro level player or who isn't.

For the record, action isn't abundant in many places and there aren't exactly a whole lot of high level, higher paying tournaments going on at the moment. Guys that decide to play pool for a living have to feed themselves and pay their bills just like anyone else. In times like these, the "chump change" tournaments are their "bread & butter" so to speak.

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In my oppinion if a person is good enough to be pro they are smart enough to not win every week and run off most of the local players...I played in a tourny one time about 10 years ago and played 4 people who's names I here on AZ..I played to just have the oppertunity to play a couple bigger names knowing I had almost 0 chance of winning...all the races were close...Then I thought I might actaully be half good but now I know they were just trying to keep me interested...

m79a said:

What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

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Well this isn't the first time I've heard this argument and frankly anyone who refuses to play in any tournament because there are better players playing is nothing but a NIT! Not worth having in the tourney to begin with. The MOST sucessful local tournaments I've ever seen are the Monday tournament at Airway Billiards (40 - 80 players every Monday!) and My tournaments at RFB Oakley on Monday and Tuesday nights. (30 - 60 players every Mon & Tues, race to 1 mon, Cinti draw partners race to 1 tues, back in the 80's) and they encouraged top players to come. The smart pool players will hope to draw one of these top players. If they win, they feel like a hero and if they don't they have a chance to come away with some knowlege,cheap! And the idea that because they play at pro level," he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere" is really rediculous! Frankly, the better you play and are known the harder it is to make a game that you have a chance to win at! When it comes time to match up everyone clocks you at the top speed you've ever played at and wants weight accordingly! This is why there are so many broke older pool players! They can't get action they have a chance at and if they keep gambling, they end up like Grady, bitter and broke! Sorry Grady didn't mean that personally! Be happy to have these guys around! You'll learn more and often see some good action after the tourney as well! I think having a tournament that players are barred out of is like throwing a party for a bunch of losers! You can have the player set out the week following a win but barring them altogether is cutting off your nose to spite your face!

BryanBpool said:

If i get to shoot with a pro for a 10-15$ tourney entry fee, I consider that fantastic. Money well spent.

Most cheapy tourneys are short races, (races to 3 or 4), I feel that I could beat anyone, every now and then, in that short of a race.

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BB,
Well said, you are a true pool player.

It is a sad comment on our sport that so many players of below average skill not only have no desire to compete with highly skilled players; but also will try to keep them away from the "local tournaments."

Where is the incentive to get better in our sport, when the better you play the fewer venues you will find for your skill? If a tournament is "killed" because of skillful players, it deserves to go away; the "players" avoiding such tournaments are not really players, and I feel no sadness for them.

So-called "amateur" players need to check themselves. Do they really think they have the inalienable right to win money without playing well? Bar tables, "amateur" players who want to win money with little or modest skills, and handicapped leagues may yet be the death of a once beautiful game. JMO