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megatron69
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06-12-2019, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
This is one of those things in pool that has different names depending on who's talking. I think the labels in my drawing are fairly common and pretty descriptive - but they're not universal.

pj
chgo
Oh, I know. Similar to how for most of my life I called making a "shape," a "leave." There's no real 'standardization' of terms in pool (not yet anyway), so we have to occasionally interpret various terms for the same things as they evolve.
  
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06-12-2019, 02:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron69 View Post
So it's called drag draw now. When I learned that shot probably over twenty years ago i was told it was a 'punch draw' shot.
...
I would have thought that a "punch draw" shot was one where the cue ball came back a short distance with a firm shot. That -- with just a little backspin when the cue ball arrives -- is also called "dead draw".


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06-12-2019, 03:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I would have thought that a "punch draw" shot was one where the cue ball came back a short distance with a firm shot. That -- with just a little backspin when the cue ball arrives -- is also called "dead draw".
That makes sense. I'm just relating what it was called by the guy that taught me the shot; either way it's a great shot by any name.
  
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06-12-2019, 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron69 View Post
Oh, I know. Similar to how for most of my life I called making a "shape," a "leave." There's no real 'standardization' of terms in pool (not yet anyway), so we have to occasionally interpret various terms for the same things as they evolve.
A guy I play with sometimes had called it a “lead” for a long time. As in “leading to the next shot” lol. We give him a little stuff for it on occasion now that he knows the word he always heard people saying was “leave”

Good lead good lead
  
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06-12-2019, 10:31 PM

Snooker players call it stun-follow.
The foundation is a stop shot...then you tweak it a bit....
...how you do that varies with conditions

Forgive me for the pic...intended for another thread.
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Last edited by pt109; 06-12-2019 at 10:37 PM.
  
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06-13-2019, 06:27 AM

For me, I think it would depend on where I would want to be if I missed shape a bit. If rolling forward too far was the better miss, I'd probably draw drag or slow roll. If stopping dead or drawing back a bit was the better miss, then punching hard with a slightly above center tip is probably the way I'd go.
  
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06-19-2019, 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy1X View Post
For me, I think it would depend on where I would want to be if I missed shape a bit. If rolling forward too far was the better miss, I'd probably draw drag or slow roll. If stopping dead or drawing back a bit was the better miss, then punching hard with a slightly above center tip is probably the way I'd go.
This is a good insight. Take the layout from the video michael4 shared, for example:



The drag shot is risky because stopping or drawing the cue ball is disastrous but going forward a little too far still leaves you look at the 8. Probably better to use a punch-follow to go a forward to err on the side of going too far. On the other hand if the 4 ball was flipped over to the other side of the 8, the drag shot might be the safer option.

Last edited by vinay; 06-19-2019 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Fixed image link
  
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06-19-2019, 09:47 AM

Stun-Follow - or some call it stun follow through.

A shot you should have in your arsenal- especially on very long shots a life-saver. also because there s then no need to be scary that the table rolls off. Slow rolling something that always is extremly dangerous.


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06-19-2019, 09:48 AM

Agreed...draw/drag is a poor choice when your balls are close.

In the situation pictured, I prefer to use max topspin strike point with a small strike force.

I find it easier to control distance with manipulation of speed, rather than a strike point.

I'd think 2'+ is generally the range in which idraw/drag's appropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinay View Post
This is a good insight. Take the layout from the video michael4 shared, for example:



The drag shot is risky because stopping or drawing the cue ball is disastrous but going forward a little too far still leaves you look at the 8. Probably better to use a punch-follow to go a forward to err on the side of going too far. On the other hand if the 4 ball was flipped over to the other side of the 8, the drag shot might be the safer option.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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06-19-2019, 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
In the situation pictured, I prefer to use max topspin strike point with a small strike force.
This is one of those times when a rule of thumb comes in handy. The one I'm thinking of is the "1/6 follow" rule that Bob Jewett mentions occasionally: a rolling CB will follow a straight-hit OB about 1/6 of the distance the OB would travel without hitting a rail.

So in this case, if you hit the 13 ball at just pocket speed it will travel 5 diamonds and the rolling CB will travel 5/6 of a diamond. If you hit the 13 a little harder to be sure it gets to the pocket, the CB will travel a little farther.

pj
chgo
  
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06-19-2019, 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
This is one of those times when a rule of thumb comes in handy. The one I'm thinking of is the "1/6 follow" rule that Bob Jewett mentions occasionally: a rolling CB will follow a straight-hit OB about 1/6 of the distance the OB would travel without hitting a rail.

So in this case, if you hit the 13 ball at just pocket speed it will travel 5 diamonds and the rolling CB will travel 5/6 of a diamond. If you hit the 13 a little harder to be sure it gets to the pocket, the CB will travel a little farther.

pj
chgo
I will check your mathing when ini get home.
  
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06-19-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by billiardthought View Post
Punch the ball half tip above the center: stun run through.
Sorry so say, but that's not a stun-run-through. It's a normal follow shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
Snooker players call it stun-follow.
The foundation is a stop shot...then you tweak it a bit....
I only know of stun-run-through.
But yes, your description is right: try a stop shot at 1/2 to 3/4 of the distance, then the CB starts to roll after that again.

Please use a proper instruction video for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAL3tqqUNQw

I have started to do that more and more for these type of shots - accuracy has somewhat increased.

Cheerio,
M
  
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06-19-2019, 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by billiardthought View Post
Punch the ball half tip above the center: stun run through.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.G. View Post
Sorry so say, but that's not a stun-run-through. It's a normal follow shot.
The terminology for these things is still a little fluid, but I'd say it's all about what the CB is doing when it reaches the OB...

- if the CB is fully rolling (no sliding), it's normal follow
- if the CB is partially sliding with some forward rotation, it's stun-run-through

Both outcomes can be produced with more than one stroke speed and tip height - for instance, any hit from just above center to about 3/4 of maximum top will make the CB slide at least a little (more if hit firmly). It seems to me the stroke described above could produce a partially sliding ball at contact.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 06-19-2019 at 07:46 PM.
  
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06-20-2019, 03:34 AM

the way i think if it
when the power of the shot is greater than the distance the cue ball travels its stun run thru
  
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Slight Follow
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Slight Follow - 06-20-2019, 06:01 AM

The way I shoot these shots is to aim for a stop shot. Get the speed in your arm for a dead center stop shot and then raise the butt of the cue up a little (how much depends on your stroke and the conditions), and shoot the shot. The added weight of the raised stick and/or the slight hop drifts the cue ball forward just a little.
  
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