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object ball last testing
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object ball last testing - 11-02-2019, 06:30 PM

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Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
I consider Barry Stark an excellent instructor and coach. He has a whole series of videos on YouTube that I find very helpful. However he considers cue ball last a flaw. He states as much in this video on flaws. https://youtu.be/gSDo2dJiGoo
He gets to cue ball last at around 5:45. I don’t find his explanation of why object ball last is better to be very compelling. He has obviously been involved debating this subject. He emphasizes that you need to have your stroke so grooved and have confidence you will strike the cue ball as intended without having to look at. I get that and agree that a student of Barry will get to that in short order. His justification of object ball last seems to boil down to; Because it is the right thing to do.

While striking the object ball correctly is the objective, striking the cue ball precisely is necessary to accomplish that. Barry teaches how to accomplish that. I find it easier to accomplish when I focus my attention on where and how I strike the cue ball.

Establishing a stable shooting platform and grooving the mechanics will allow a player to hit where they are aiming regardless of where they are looking. Check out Mark Williams no look shots.

Greg,

If I haven't been playing, I hit the cue ball about an eighth inch high and a sixteenth to the left of where I plan to. I do this with amazing consistency. A little tuning gets rid of it, a month or two away from the table and the flaw is back, exactly the same! I thought I would be inconsistent as to where I hit the cue ball after a layoff but I wasn't. I hit within the limits the eye can judge exactly the same place, high left!

Being the curious sort I went to a pool hall where I was fairly well known and started in roping victims passing by to try a shot for me. It wasn't a hard shot or real easy. Most of a nine foot table between cue ball and object ball and the ball sixteen or eighteen inches from the pocket and about a sixty degree cut. I didn't tell them what I was testing. Out of about a dozen players, only one hit the cue ball where intended. Most were about 3/16" off where they thought they were hitting the cue ball. Once told the object of the test most then hit the spot they were trying to on the cue ball. The players ranged from mostly high C to A players, a solid shortstop or two. One player hit exactly where he intended on the cue ball, first time and every time. If I gave you three guesses what he looked at last and the first two didn't count you would still get it right. One of the poorest players in the test but he looked at cue ball last.

A friend only played once or twice a year. Later I put him to the test. Bang! Spot on wherever I moved the contact point to. I already knew the answer before I asked him what he looked at last. Cue ball.

My testing strongly indicates that those that look at object ball last don't hit the cue ball nearly as accurately as they believe when viewed as a group. No doubt some exceptions but I suspect many could benefit from looking at the cue ball last.

Ralf Souquet struggles along with cue ball last including when he was ranked number one in the world. Over 500 tournament wins, seventy-five German and European championships. He seems to scrape along looking at the cue ball last.

Hu
  
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11-02-2019, 07:45 PM

What Hu said.
  
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11-02-2019, 09:34 PM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Just curious, why is this so important to you?
If you read my opening post I tried to explain my motive in starting this thread. I have been trying to accurately document my experience and discoveries regarding other top players that do not find cue ball last to be flawed. I am not trying to convert anyone, just providing evidence that it’s a viable option.
  
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11-03-2019, 08:38 AM

I thought Barry’s use of darts for an analogy was telling. (Put this in bold font&#129396 My wife and I had the opportunity to play darts with Steve Mizerak. Steve seemed to throw 3 in a bed at will. The latest help I got from Barry was with the hand and fingers.(I posted a link to an early lesson elsewhere) One of my final thoughts is to emulate my dart throw starting the stroke with my fingers. In darts my only chance is to make a mind connection between the eyes and hand then trust it. In pool my trust is that I have done the platform and aiming process right. I can then focus on immaculate delivery of the cue tip to and through the cue ball.

It darling works so well I well to quote Mike Dooly, “It works so good a nun would take her clothes off, no no no, it works so good a whole convent would take their clothes off.”
  
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