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11-05-2019, 06:42 PM

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Originally Posted by trob View Post
Ummm yeah. I have a good time every week. You have to pay for entertainment I guess

Your point is valid but, I would rather play in a bar tournament, with a $5.00 - $7.00 entry, where you had a chance to cover expenses, and go home with a few bucks. Then be in a APA league with trophies as a prize for being a winner.
  

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11-05-2019, 06:47 PM

Most people play pool to have fun, not win money.
  
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Scott Lee
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11-05-2019, 07:18 PM

BryanB...This shows your ignorance about the APA. MAYBE 10% of APA LO's are doing well (having more than 200+ teams). The rest are struggling to make some kind of living offering a playing opportunity for those that want it. Your statement is just another opportunity to bash the APA...which is still the largest league in the world.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanB View Post
I'd die laughing if they were in trouble. They receive 20% of your weekly dues and pay out a fraction. You local league operators are all driving BMW's. Be sure they tell you thanks


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11-05-2019, 07:52 PM

Ok...indulge the middle aged guy a moment.

I'm in Syracuse.

We had rooms 25 years back with 70 player weekly tournaments. 6 rooms within 30 minutes. You could play tournaments 6 nights a week. Rooms didn't compete over tournament days. Rooms collaborated to have big weekend regional tournaments...no tournament directors taking 30 percent.

Even 10 years back we had 3 rooms that all cooperated and weeknight tournaments would exceed 30. No real players even looked at bar tables and most rooms didn't even have them.

Last few years it's all APA. Rooms are pitted against one another and some excluded entirely. This has been done in Syracuse, Utica, Binghamton and Rochester. All for what ??? Money Money Money.

The APA doesn't care about the history of this game. The rooms that have been hurt by league ops pulling teams. Long as the money keeps rolling in...that is all that matters.

Sad part is most APA players have no idea what a pool hall really was about because they haven't been exposed to it. I've got men playing out of my room who have shot pool together for 65 years. People learning and enjoying all games played on full sized equipment.

I really think the future of pool is losing the identity that made it great. I'm still along for the ride, just don't think I'm going to like the destination.

I'd say the APA pulls a minimum of 15 million a year. That money is not reinvested in the game. Renting a bunch of Valleys and cutting deals with casinos that host events is not promoting anything. Nobody cares if Joe Blow from Idaho wins 10k in prizes at a National.

Last edited by SBC; 11-05-2019 at 07:58 PM.
  
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11-05-2019, 08:18 PM

Most pool hall owners are dependent on leagues to bring in business. I have been in the APA for 26 years. Missed about 10 year stretch up to about 3 years ago and got back in. Itís a reason for me to get out of the house one night a week. Have some fun, play a little , usually some good competition at my level.

APA is a business. Some people that complain about it donít understand businesses have to make a profit. If you donít like it then donít play. It keeps our sport alive and helps bring in new players.
  
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SBC
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11-05-2019, 08:28 PM

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Originally Posted by HQueen View Post
Most pool hall owners are dependent on leagues to bring in business. I have been in the APA for 26 years. Missed about 10 year stretch up to about 3 years ago and got back in. It’s a reason for me to get out of the house one night a week. Have some fun, play a little , usually some good competition at my level.

APA is a business. Some people that complain about it don’t understand businesses have to make a profit. If you don’t like it then don’t play. It keeps our sport alive and helps bring in new players.
Nascar switches to go carts so Joe six pack can get in. They make portable tracks that fit in casinos and get kickbacks for bringing in the fish. The National Cart Association gains huge numbers of participants. All the famous Nascar tracks go bust. Thousands of dudes with souped up lawn mowers point to their 5 inch trophies and patch collections...saying "I'm a professional race car driver".
  
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11-05-2019, 09:24 PM

It's well documented that you are an APA basher...with no real statistics to back you up. The poolroom business has always been cyclical and ebbs and flows by the decade. Failures of poolrooms have been in the past, and continue to be in the present, generally one of two things...either the rent got raised too high, or the room was doomed by mismanagement. Please show me ANY national league-affiliated events not staged at a casino (excluding APA). Whether it's valleys or diamonds, they still are playing on 7' tables, which also continues to have professional tournaments staged on them...often concurrently with a nationally-affiliated amateur event. Most important...Joe Blow from Idaho cares, and so does every person in Joe Blow's town. Grass-roots pool, at it's best. The APA has it right, in appealing to even novice players, that they could potentially advance to, and win a national title! That is the same premise of the new UBL league...that novice players can win a national championship and win $100,000 (as one of my students did earlier this year...although he was one of the best players on the team, not the novice). Sorry SBC, you can try to blame league pool for the demise of your local watering holes...but the facts don't support it. As it's been said before, without league play, there might not be any poolrooms.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBC View Post
Ok...indulge the middle aged guy a moment.

I'm in Syracuse.

I'd say the APA pulls a minimum of 15 million a year. That money is not reinvested in the game. Renting a bunch of Valleys and cutting deals with casinos that host events is not promoting anything. Nobody cares if Joe Blow from Idaho wins 10k in prizes at a National.


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Last edited by Scott Lee; 11-05-2019 at 10:09 PM.
  
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11-05-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
It's well documented that you are an APA basher...with no real statistics to back you up. Failures of poolrooms have been in the past, and continue to be in the present, generally one of two things...either the rent got raised too high, or the room was doomed by mismanagement. Please show me ANY national league-affiliated events not staged at a casino. Whether it's valleys or diamonds, they still are playing on 7' tables, which also continues to have professional tournaments staged on them...often concurrently with a nationally-affiliated amateur event. Most important...Joe Blow from Idaho cares, and so does every person in Joe Blow's town. Grass-roots pool, at it's best. The APA has it right, in appealing to even novice players, that they could potentially advance to, and win a national title! That is the same premise of the new UBL league...that novice players can win a national championship and win $100,000 (as one of my students did earlier this year...although he was one of the best players on the team, not the novice).

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
TAP held at SBE in an Expo Center without slot machines.

Equating UPL and APA is asanine.

Who is the bulk of your audience? Let me guess....

Back from a bit of research.
2k pool classes. $ymbolisn over substance.
I say there's no school like old school.

Last edited by SBC; 11-05-2019 at 09:47 PM.
  
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11-05-2019, 10:06 PM

Again...bashing something you know nothing about. It's not a pool class...it's a four day school. No substance? That just again shows your ignorance about top quality instruction. Prior Predator pool schools sold out at $1500/3 days with 12 students for 3 teachers. This is 8 top professional instructors for 8 students for 32 hours...hardly symbolism over substance. It's also a venue for students to be able to try out a Predator Revo cue, and get a 50% discount on a shaft, if they choose to buy one.

Wow...you managed to come up with a whole "1"! The Rally in the Valley is a local event...not a national one. TAP holds their national tournaments elsewhere. The marketing ideals of both leagues are exactly the same, which is hardly asinine. My audience? That's easy...the 40,000,000 amateur poolplayers out there in just the USA!...especially the top 1,000,000 who, like yourself, love to play pool. Those are the folks who keep pool alive, playing in leagues, tournaments, and for 50,000+ of them, attending a national event once or twice a year. When you're the Professional Instructor of the Year, people seek you out...especially those with open minds...unlike you SBC!

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBC View Post
TAP held at SBE in an Expo Center without slot machines.

Equating UPL and APA is asanine.

Who is the bulk of your audience? Let me guess....

Back from a bit of research.
2k pool classes. $ymbolisn over substance.
I say there's no school like old school.


PBIA Master Instructor
  
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11-05-2019, 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Again...bashing something you know nothing about. It's not a pool class...it's a four day school. No substance? That just again shows your ignorance about top quality instruction. Prior Predator pool schools sold out at $1500/3 days with 12 students for 3 teachers. This is 8 top professional instructors for 8 students for 32 hours...hardly symbolism over substance. It's also a venue for students to be able to try out a Predator Revo cue, and get a 50% discount on a shaft, if they choose to buy one.

Wow...you managed to come up with a whole "1"! The Rally in the Valley is a local event...not a national one. TAP holds their national tournaments elsewhere. The marketing ideals of both leagues are exactly the same, which is hardly asinine. My audience? That's easy...the 40,000,000 amateur poolplayers out there in just the USA!...especially the top 1,000,000 who, like yourself, love to play pool. Those are the folks who keep pool alive, playing in leagues, tournaments, and for 50,000+ of them, attending a national event once or twice a year. When you're the Professional Instructor of the Year, people seek you out...especially those with open minds...unlike you SBC!

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour


Iím at the Tap nationals at the IP Casino right now.


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11-05-2019, 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Again...bashing something you know nothing about. It's not a pool class...it's a four day school. No substance? That just again shows your ignorance about top quality instruction. Prior Predator pool schools sold out at $1500/3 days with 12 students for 3 teachers. This is 8 top professional instructors for 8 students for 32 hours...hardly symbolism over substance. It's also a venue for students to be able to try out a Predator Revo cue, and get a 50% discount on a shaft, if they choose to buy one.

Wow...you managed to come up with a whole "1"! The Rally in the Valley is a local event...not a national one. TAP holds their national tournaments elsewhere. The marketing ideals of both leagues are exactly the same, which is hardly asinine. My audience? That's easy...the 40,000,000 amateur poolplayers out there in just the USA!...especially the top 1,000,000 who, like yourself, love to play pool. Those are the folks who keep pool alive, playing in leagues, tournaments, and for 50,000+ of them, attending a national event once or twice a year. When you're the Professional Instructor of the Year, people seek you out...especially those with open minds...unlike you SBC!

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Wouldn't pay you 2k to paint my house....
  
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Celophanewrap
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11-05-2019, 11:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBC View Post
Nascar switches to go carts so Joe six pack can get in. They make portable tracks that fit in casinos and get kickbacks for bringing in the fish. The National Cart Association gains huge numbers of participants. All the famous Nascar tracks go bust. Thousands of dudes with souped up lawn mowers point to their 5 inch trophies and patch collections...saying "I'm a professional race car driver".
I suspect that there is a professional go cart racing circuit with pro drivers and sponsors,
probably some in the south, maybe in California. If there is such a circuit it probably
draws hobbyists and enthusiasts as well as pro drivers and it’s also likely that some of
these people are dedicated to their particular driving medium and have no desire to drive
cars on a race track. Currently NASCAR draws a pretty good crowd. The NASCAR and
open wheel racing circuit has no need to find different ways to market their product, they
already make a ton of money and don’t need to find a way to build participation but I’m sure
they always look for new ways to make money, like every business.
The difference is NASCAR is in no danger of going bust right now.
The APA got started when pool was pretty much already bust. It has just been an avenue
to bring people to the game and I’ve never met one that shows their trophies and patches
and claims to be a pro pool player.
I’m curious, if there was no APA and never had been one, just how much pool do you
suppose would be available to you today? How many amateur players wouldn’t be amateur
players today if there was no APA, and consequently how many fewer bars, pool halls and
pool tables would be available? and what would the market be like for pool supplies and
for cue makers, tip installers, table mechanics and folks like that? I imagine there would be
far fewer then there are now.
However, if NASCAR should ever find itself in dire financial straits I’d bet they’d take to
go carts, lawn mowers, and casinos like a fish to water.

Scott, I didn’t know you paint houses, what do you charge?

Last edited by Celophanewrap; 11-05-2019 at 11:58 PM.
  
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11-05-2019, 11:53 PM

I feel like paying some of these instructors would be like paying one of these ladie to teach you how to drive.
I mean if pool instructors don't need to be able to play well to teach, that same logic works with other things too?

I am sure some of these ladies would make great teachers
  
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11-06-2019, 12:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Snooker Theory View Post
I feel like paying some of these instructors would be like paying one of these ladie to teach you how to drive.
I mean if pool instructors don't need to be able to play well to teach, that same logic works with other things too?

I am sure some of these ladies would make great teachers
Are you saying Scott canít play? I hear he plays pretty sporty.
Taking lessons from those ladies, now thatís a different story.....
  
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11-06-2019, 12:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Celophanewrap View Post
Are you saying Scott can’t play? I hear he plays pretty sporty.
Taking lessons from those ladies, now that’s a different story.....

I dunno if Scott can play or not, seen a few videos of him shooting, heard some stories, but never played him myself. I hear he is a good coach...

I was a 3 handicap in golf for a long time, and am speaking more from that experience, sure some of the top golf coaches in the world aren't on the level of touring pros when it comes to playing skills, but when they got to get up and demonstrate something on the driving range they sure as heck don't shank the ball out of bounds either or blade the ball over the green going over chipping techniques.
.

Have you seen Scott play, either on youtube or in real life, what's pretty sporty?
  
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