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12-04-2019, 03:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Ken_4fun View Post
Next Mosconi Cup is it possible to spot Europe a point or two to keep it close?



Kinda feeling a little sorry for the buggers in Europe. Cheer up boys don't think of it as losing, think of it as coming in 2nd place....



Ken
Pleas remind, how many times in a row did US lose before that? And who's coach were you given to get you out of the hole? Asking for a friend.

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12-04-2019, 03:48 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
Here's my prediction. Filler can beat any one of these guys but he can't beat them all! If he continues to play top players they will eventually wear him out. He could play all the 9-Ball he wanted if he traveled to the Philippines or Taiwan. They would line up to play him and at some point they would wear him out.

If he's smart (and I think he is) he will continue to pick his spots and only play when he's ready. His wife is pretty sharp too from what I can see. In other words you can get too much of a good thing. He would be foolish to wear himself out playing too many big money matches against tough opposition.

Dennis O. has probably been the most prolific big money player the last few years and even he gets burned out on occasions and has a bad match. He went home this last time for that very reason. He told me he was tired and needed a break from pool.
Jay, if you can elaborate here a bit...you have a serious up close and personal history with the gambling aspect of the game, so your answer intrigues me.

We all know when a player gets hot, they get on a streak and make the game look easy.
From Dec 2017 to Dec 2019, no one has had a tourney run like Filler....2017 Mosconi mvp as a rookie...world champion 9 ball....Matchroom US Open 9 ball...set 14.1 record at DCC...accu stats make it happen 14.1 overall winner....derby big foot 10 ball runner up....world 10 ball runner up...and now went 18-6 against Shane x 2, Billy and Skyler at Mosconi. This doesnít include his money match wins over big names on the side.

So my question is...why not play anyone at anytime until you get worn out?
One thing I hand it to Dennis...he doesnít let a loss effect him (in both tourneys and gambling) he just gets back up and keeps going until he (like you reported) needed a break.

Why wouldnít a player of Fillerís caliber, while on top, play as many big matches as can be scheduled when heís on a streak of this magnitude? Itís like a 16 hour a day gold miner hits pay dirt, and finds that vein of gold, but all of a sudden goes to working 8 hours a day. It doesnít make sense to me.
  
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12-04-2019, 04:27 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
Here's my prediction. Filler can beat any one of these guys but he can't beat them all! If he continues to play top players they will eventually wear him out. He could play all the 9-Ball he wanted if he traveled to the Philippines or Taiwan. They would line up to play him and at some point they would wear him out.

If he's smart (and I think he is) he will continue to pick his spots and only play when he's ready. His wife is pretty sharp too from what I can see. In other words you can get too much of a good thing. He would be foolish to wear himself out playing too many big money matches against tough opposition.

Dennis O. has probably been the most prolific big money player the last few years and even he gets burned out on occasions and has a bad match. He went home this last time for that very reason. He told me he was tired and needed a break from pool.
taiwan ok, but who in the philippines do you think could play filler even?
  
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12-04-2019, 05:13 AM

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Originally Posted by buckshotshoey View Post
Agreed. But we can shoot back. Put Earl on the team. Nobody will pay any attention to Filler! Lol
Hahaha truth!


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12-04-2019, 05:16 AM

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Originally Posted by skogstokig View Post
taiwan ok, but who in the philippines do you think could play filler even?
Iíve watched face book live matches where kids ..thatís right kids.. youíve never seen before are spotting efrin balls and running it up his a$$ lol Their are plenty.


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12-04-2019, 09:45 AM

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Originally Posted by trob View Post
I’ve watched face book live matches where kids ..that’s right kids.. you’ve never seen before are spotting efrin balls and running it up his a$$ lol Their are plenty.
Efren is a couple of speeds off his prime, and simply cannot beat the tier 1 players in the Phillipines any more. And is prolly getting spotted small by the tier 2 players now in 9 ball/10 ball, too.

NOBODY in the Phillipines is spotting Dennis anything yet, and if they tried, they'd get their nuts shot in. And Filler handled him easily. I don't believe Dennis got torched in a set and then said "flip it", and Filler decided to pass easy money up for dinner plans. I am betting Pia would have told him to get his arsch in the box cuz, "Frau needs a new pair of Schuhe..." Also, it is WELL known that Dennis likes to have the best of it, by at least a small margin, in virtually every matchup he plays, and is quick to call it quits when he is in a bad game. The only reason he got in the box with Shane again is prolly because he found one last backer willing to take a shot. He'll prolly never get another shot at Shane again, because he got torched pretty bad the last time, and he is too prideful to take a spot from Shane.

I am watching Aranas run a 7 pack in a Sullyvision match against Cheng at the moment, and I still wouldn't like his chances against Josh Filler in any long set. Aranas and a few other Filipinos have good fundamentals, and good percentage play, but Josh simply hits the vast majority of shots at the best make speed, and has by far the best current ability to simply forget a bad outcome, and bring it on the next tough shot.

He hits the ball so perfect, he can accurately predict 12+ feet of cue ball travel and be within a few inches of the expected outcome. This gives him a massive advantage when he's faced with a tough shot that he is forced to shoot situationally, with an extremely narrow position zone. A lot of his peers will shoot the shot, come up a foot short or long, and be forced into a jump or kick to recover. Josh, to a higher degree, gets there, and runs another rack or two behind that successful shot.

And it's not an isolated case. I watched him beat a few top players in the Big Truck room at DCC this year, and if anything, he's gotten BETTER.

If he decides to go to the Phillipines, I will bet $500.00 on every match he plays, and I don't care WHO he plays.

Last edited by ShortBusRuss; 12-04-2019 at 09:49 AM.
  
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12-04-2019, 10:28 AM

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Originally Posted by trob View Post
Iíve watched face book live matches where kids ..thatís right kids.. youíve never seen before are spotting efrin balls and running it up his a$$ lol Their are plenty.
The new rising star seems to be Kyle Amoroto. I think he is 17. You can watch him beat Kiamco, Aranas, Raga and Biado on youtube. He doesn't win every match but in some of them he beats those players pretty soundly. Shoots incredibly straight and shows no fear at all.
  
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12-04-2019, 11:28 AM

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Originally Posted by trob View Post
Iíve watched face book live matches where kids ..thatís right kids.. youíve never seen before are spotting efrin balls and running it up his a$$ lol Their are plenty.
i've heard versions of this story for a decade or more. about ignacio, aranas, chua and most recently about raga. very tough players, but not as good as the top taiwan players, or filler
  
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12-04-2019, 11:49 AM

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Originally Posted by skogstokig View Post
i've heard versions of this story for a decade or more. about ignacio, aranas, chua and most recently about raga. very tough players, but not as good as the top taiwan players, or filler
Fargo has Filler at 821. Raga at 819. Aranas at 806. Ignacio at 801. Chua at 797. Make of that what you will.

Anybody playing 800+ speed can beat anyone else on a given day. Their best days are god like.
  
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jay helfert
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12-04-2019, 12:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Cardigan Kid View Post
Jay, if you can elaborate here a bit...you have a serious up close and personal history with the gambling aspect of the game, so your answer intrigues me.

We all know when a player gets hot, they get on a streak and make the game look easy.
From Dec 2017 to Dec 2019, no one has had a tourney run like Filler....2017 Mosconi mvp as a rookie...world champion 9 ball....Matchroom US Open 9 ball...set 14.1 record at DCC...accu stats make it happen 14.1 overall winner....derby big foot 10 ball runner up....world 10 ball runner up...and now went 18-6 against Shane x 2, Billy and Skyler at Mosconi. This doesnít include his money match wins over big names on the side.

So my question is...why not play anyone at anytime until you get worn out?
One thing I hand it to Dennis...he doesnít let a loss effect him (in both tourneys and gambling) he just gets back up and keeps going until he (like you reported) needed a break.

Why wouldnít a player of Fillerís caliber, while on top, play as many big matches as can be scheduled when heís on a streak of this magnitude? Itís like a 16 hour a day gold miner hits pay dirt, and finds that vein of gold, but all of a sudden goes to working 8 hours a day. It doesnít make sense to me.
I agree that Filler's run in tournaments especially has been phenomenal, almost unmatched in this modern era. Sprinkle in some wins in money games and he has certainly established himself as the man to beat.

I think he is the outlier to my equation that I stated above. I attribute it to his youth and his skill. That said, I still believe that if he doesn't pace himself he will burn out to one degree or another. He's going to take some hard losses, that's inevitable. How they will effect him moving forward remains to be seen. Who even knows if this most recent loss on pool's biggest stage to Skyler won't have a lasting effect. We should have an answer to that very soon with the World 9-Ball coming right up.

I can only go by what I've witnessed over the last 40-50 years. Almost any player who takes on too many other top players in rapid succession will start to get beat on after awhile. There have been a couple of exceptions though. For a period of almost ten years Buddy Hall took on all comers in Shreveport and to the best of my knowledge only lost once (to Dan Louie). And then there is PARICA! He was the real money king of professional pool for maybe two decades. For a long, long time no one wanted to play him even! And I mean NO ONE! The pool world took a pass on playing him after he spanked everyone foolish enough to try. And of course we all know about Efren's long dominance in the game of One Pocket, which is a very different animal than Rotation games.


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12-04-2019, 12:07 PM

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Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Efren is a couple of speeds off his prime, and simply cannot beat the tier 1 players in the Phillipines any more. And is prolly getting spotted small by the tier 2 players now in 9 ball/10 ball, too.

NOBODY in the Phillipines is spotting Dennis anything yet, and if they tried, they'd get their nuts shot in. And Filler handled him easily. I don't believe Dennis got torched in a set and then said "flip it", and Filler decided to pass easy money up for dinner plans. I am betting Pia would have told him to get his arsch in the box cuz, "Frau needs a new pair of Schuhe....
I thought she shut him down because he had a really early match the next morning in the semifinals. At least that is what I thought I heard on the stream during that night.
  
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12-04-2019, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by skogstokig View Post
taiwan ok, but who in the philippines do you think could play filler even?
About fifty guys, half of whom we've never seen in this country. Yes, they may be untested in major tournaments, but they are ready to take on anyone who ventures their way. It seems like every time a new Filipino champion arrives on our shores they have to go through a learning curve and then they begin to dominate.

There are many championship speed players in the Philippines who have yet to be tested overseas, and some may never get the chance. But from what I've seen, if foreign players venture over there looking for action they will get it in spades. Someone who can play like Filler might well win at first, but I wouldn't be surprised to see his opponents gain speed overnight as they play him. Filipino pool players are fast learners and they will do whatever it takes to figure out how to win. If they need to move their game up a speed or two they seem to be quite able to do that when necessary.

That's why you see guys like Aranas and Gomez struggle at first over here and then begin to dominate. They are relentless adversaries! Dennis is only one example of that. You can knock him down but he will get right back up and say let's do it again.


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12-04-2019, 12:14 PM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
I agree that Filler's run in tournaments especially has been phenomenal, almost unmatched in this modern era. Sprinkle in some wins in money games and he has certainly established himself as the man to beat.

I think he is the outlier to my equation that I stated above. I attribute it to his youth and his skill. That said, I still believe that if he doesn't pace himself he will burn out to one degree or another. He's going to take some hard losses, that's inevitable. How they will effect him moving forward remains to be seen. Who even knows if this most recent loss on pool's biggest stage to Skyler won't have a lasting effect. We should have an answer to that very soon with the World 9-Ball coming right up.

I can only go by what I've witnessed over the last 40-50 years. Almost any player who takes on too many other top players in rapid succession will start to get beat on after awhile. There have been a couple of exceptions though. For a period of almost ten years Buddy Hall took on all comers in Shreveport and to the best of my knowledge only lost once (to Dan Louie). And then there is PARICA! He was the real money king of professional pool for maybe two decades. For a long, long time no one wanted to play him even! And I mean NO ONE! The pool world took a pass on playing him after he spanked everyone foolish enough to try. And of course we all know about Efren's long dominance in the game of One Pocket, which is a very different animal than Rotation games.
Thanks for the response, Jay.
So the goal is to pick and choose and look to the extend this zone of dominance, instead of constant action leading to the burn out.
I only was able to catch the tail end of Paricaís career, and watching him go toe to toe with a prime Johnny Archer was something to behold. So much respect for that guy.
  
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12-04-2019, 12:15 PM

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Thanks for the response, Jay.
So the goal is to pick and choose and look to the extend this zone of dominance, instead of constant action leading to the burn out.
I only was able to catch the tail end of Paricaís career, and watching him go toe to toe with a prime Johnny Archer was something to behold. So much respect for that guy.
Johnny in his prime was about the only guy willing to play Parica even.


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12-04-2019, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
About fifty guys, half of whom we've never seen in this country. Yes, they may be untested in major tournaments, but they are ready to take on anyone who ventures their way. It seems like every time a new Filipino champion arrives on our shores they have to go through a learning curve and then they begin to dominate.

There are many championship speed players in the Philippines who have yet to be tested overseas, and some may never get the chance. But from what I've seen, if foreign players venture over there looking for action they will get it in spades. Someone who can play like Filler might well win at first, but I wouldn't be surprised to see his opponents gain speed overnight as they play him. Filipino pool players are fast learners and they will do whatever it takes to figure out how to win. If they need to move their game up a speed or two they seem to be quite able to do that when necessary.

That's why you see guys like Aranas and Gomez struggle at first over here and then begin to dominate. They are relentless adversaries! Dennis is only one example of that. You can knock him down but he will get right back up and say let's do it again.
I like your assessment. An example of that was Dennis playing Tony one pocket. Tony ran over him the first day. Dennis continued to learn shots from Tony to put in his arsenal. Dennis almost cam back and beat him the first time they played. With all the knowledge Dennis got from playing, Tony had no chance to beat him the second time they played.
  
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