Gold Crown 3 Problem

Bambu · Dec 21, 2008

I have a problem with my gold crown 3, so I was hoping someone here might be able to help me. I got this table about 8 years ago, reconditioned at my local brunswick dealer(Blatt Billiards). I paid for brand new rails as part of the deal, with new k-66 rubber installed.
Problem is, the table plays slow as compared to other tables. The table plays as good as it ever did, just slow compared to other brunswick, amf or gandy tables in my area.
The Blatt mechanic installs simonis nicely, but thinks I am crazy when I say the table plays slow. Its not dirty balls, old cloth, or humidity. I am certain the cushions are spongy, and I have 2 other players who confirm.
So my problem is, do I simply get new k-66 rubber? I want to, but I am afraid they will play the same as what the guy gave me the first time. Is it possible they screwed up the install? Or should I just take it to a different dealer? Any advice is appreciated, I dont know much about tables.

LCCS · Dec 21, 2008

table

That table came with k-55 from Brunswick, originally. Why was it changed? Are you sure it is correct? If the rubber is still good, then put some 300 Simonis on it and play slip and slide. LOL
Ron

cuejoey · Dec 21, 2008

Bambu said:
I have a problem with my gold crown 3, so I was hoping someone here might be able to help me. I got this table about 8 years ago, reconditioned at my local brunswick dealer(Blatt Billiards). I paid for brand new rails as part of the deal, with new k-66 rubber installed.
Problem is, the table plays slow as compared to other tables. The table plays as good as it ever did, just slow compared to other brunswick, amf or gandy tables in my area.
The Blatt mechanic installs simonis nicely, but thinks I am crazy when I say the table plays slow. Its not dirty balls, old cloth, or humidity. I am certain the cushions are spongy, and I have 2 other players who confirm.
So my problem is, do I simply get new k-66 rubber? I want to, but I am afraid they will play the same as what the guy gave me the first time. Is it possible they screwed up the install? Or should I just take it to a different dealer? Any advice is appreciated, I dont know much about tables.

There is an expert table mechanic that posts on AZ regularly REALKINGCOBRA send him a PM...He travels across the U.S. and is the best there is.....Good luck

Bambu · Dec 21, 2008

Thanks Joey. LCCS, maybe thats what they gave me, old k55 rubber. I wanted the table to have the black formica rails instead of wood grain. The used mica rails would come with scratches, so I ordered new. I asked for new rubber too, the reciept says new k-66.

scruffy1 · Dec 21, 2008

Lccs is correct . Your table was designed to use K55 cushion. K66 will sit higher causing slower response. Being a Brunswick dealer they really should know this!!!

Bambu · Dec 21, 2008

Ah, that makes sense...thank you. Here is a pic of the table. Is it even a gold crown 3? If it really is a gold crown 3, does this mean I can or should install new k-55's? If I do, will it play as fast as a common amf or gandy(thats all I want)? Also, is there any way to verify that my rubber is k-66? I could check it next time I change the cloth. Then again, I guess its too late to take it up with the dealer.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/NYCBambu/room.jpg

scruffy1 · Dec 21, 2008

Yeahh, thats a gold crown III. Definitely should have K55 on it. You can measure the play field and figure out if its k66. Playfield with k55 will measure 50x100 from nose to nose on a 9 footer.

Bambu · Dec 21, 2008

You have been a big help to me, thanks a ton. If I do have k-55's installed, should I expect the table to play just as fast as others? And any idea what I should expect to pay for a job like that? Thanks again.

scruffy1 · Dec 21, 2008

Properly set up with correct cushion and a good quality cloth the table should play as good as anything out there. Price will vary greatly from location to location. check the mechanics directory here to see if there
is one of us close to you. Good luck!! Thank You!

Bambu · Dec 21, 2008

I have been trying to figure this out for years, so this means alot to me. I am off to get some k-55's. If anyone knows of a good mechanic in NY, please let me know. I dont want Blatt touching my table. Thanks again Scruffy!

Dartman · Dec 21, 2008

Bambu said:
Ah, that makes sense...thank you. Here is a pic of the table. Is it even a gold crown 3? If it really is a gold crown 3, does this mean I can or should install new k-55's? If I do, will it play as fast as a common amf or gandy(thats all I want)? Also, is there any way to verify that my rubber is k-66? I could check it next time I change the cloth. Then again, I guess its too late to take it up with the dealer.

Yea, waiting 8 years is just a little late.

Blatt is one of the major antique table dealers in the country as well as being a Bwick dealer.
I would have a lot of confidence that they installed the appropriate cushions (k55).

Question is, what type of cushions did they use and you won't know unless you uncover a rail.
My guess is just a standard cushion set unless you specified something different (like superspeeds).

To help diagnose your issue before going thru the potential expense for new cushions let us know:
1. the playfield dimensions which should be 50" X 100" - check this for all rails
2. most important - the exact height of the nose of the cushions from the bed. Measure at the sights for each rail
3. what ball set are you using
4. run your hand across the table with slight pressure and in different directions and let us know if the cloth tends to bunch up in front of your hand

LCCS · Dec 21, 2008

cushions

Measure from the slate to the nose of the cushion and tell us what you come up with.
Thanks, Ron

Donny Wessels · Dec 21, 2008

how many cushions do you get on the bounce test? place the ball on the head spot, hit the ball firmly down the center of the table and count how many times the ball hits the cushion. Stock GC's aren't the fastest playing tables. A slow playing table will be around 4 and a fast table will be 4.5 to 5 cushions.

Dartman · Dec 21, 2008

sdbilliards said:
how many cushions do you get on the bounce test? place the ball on the head spot, hit the ball firmly down the center of the table and count how many times the ball hits the cushion. Stock GC's aren't the fastest playing tables. A slow playing table will be around 4 and a fast table will be 4.5 to 5 cushions.

All well & good but a bounce test doesn't pinpoint a problem, if any, assuming 2 people won't hit the ball the same. I have doubts that Blatt installed k66 on the table but if they did and the cushions are too high then that would explain the problem (assuming the cloth is good and tight and he's not using rubber balls).

Bambu · Dec 21, 2008

I havent measured yet, but I am certain I have k-66 rubber. Reason being, I have been fighting with the blatt mechanic about this for years. He acknowledges they are k-66, and I asked for k-66 when I bought it.... it says so on the reciept. At the time I just wanted the best rails I could get, but didnt know the gold crowns werent made for k-66's. Some are saying golds crowns just play slow, but I have a tough time accepting that. The slate and cloth cant vary much, so it has to be the rubber, no? How much faster are k-66 compared to k-55? Much thanks to all for your help on this! I have used pro cup and centennial balls on simonis 860. I have had to change the cloth every 2 years because it gets too slow to play 9 ball(IMHO).

realkingcobra · Dec 21, 2008

Bambu said:
I havent measured yet, but I am certain I have k-66 rubber. Reason being, I have been fighting with the blatt mechanic about this for years. He acknowledges they are k-66, and I asked for k-66 when I bought it.... it says so on the reciept. At the time I just wanted the best rails I could get, but didnt know the gold crowns werent made for k-66's. Some are saying golds crowns just play slow, but I have a tough time accepting that. The slate and cloth cant vary much, so it has to be the rubber, no? How much faster are k-66 compared to k-55? Much thanks to all for your help on this! I have used pro cup and centennial balls on simonis 860. I have had to change the cloth every 2 years because it gets too slow to play 9 ball(IMHO).

Call me, 702-927-5689

Glen

Now would be fine.

Donny Wessels · Dec 21, 2008

Bambu said:
I havent measured yet, but I am certain I have k-66 rubber. Reason being, I have been fighting with the blatt mechanic about this for years. He acknowledges they are k-66, and I asked for k-66 when I bought it.... it says so on the reciept. At the time I just wanted the best rails I could get, but didnt know the gold crowns werent made for k-66's. Some are saying golds crowns just play slow, but I have a tough time accepting that. The slate and cloth cant vary much, so it has to be the rubber, no? How much faster are k-66 compared to k-55? Much thanks to all for your help on this! I have used pro cup and centennial balls on simonis 860. I have had to change the cloth every 2 years because it gets too slow to play 9 ball(IMHO).

when you do the bounce test we can determine how slow your table is if it is in fact slow. personally I would not put K66 cushions on a brunswick even if requested to do so, and I would expect any reputable company to do the same, and blatt billiards is a respectable company.

Dartman · Dec 22, 2008

Bambu said:
I havent measured yet, but I am certain I have k-66 rubber. Reason being, I have been fighting with the blatt mechanic about this for years. He acknowledges they are k-66, and I asked for k-66 when I bought it.... it says so on the reciept. At the time I just wanted the best rails I could get, but didnt know the gold crowns werent made for k-66's. Some are saying golds crowns just play slow, but I have a tough time accepting that. The slate and cloth cant vary much, so it has to be the rubber, no? How much faster are k-66 compared to k-55? Much thanks to all for your help on this! I have used pro cup and centennial balls on simonis 860. I have had to change the cloth every 2 years because it gets too slow to play 9 ball(IMHO).

Well there's part of the mystery solved - that you wanted k66.
Measure the height of the nose of the cushions. If they're too high they tend to suck in the ball resulting in slow rebound. You want a nose height of 1 7/16"

The profile of the cushions isn't the main factor that determines cushion response (speed) rather it's the type of cushions used. A cheap cushion won't play anywhere close to a quality cushion like superspeeds, artemis, etc.

Bambu · Dec 22, 2008

Well, I measured the play area today. Just like you guys said, the play area is bigger than it should be(50 1/4 X 100 1/2). I know this probably wont get me very far, but I intend to take this up with Blatt. Like you guys said, they shouldnt have put k-66 rubber on a gc3(even if I requested it). It plays like crap next to any other regulation simonis table, but the k-55's should fix the problem. Thanks again guys. I never would have figured this out by myself!
I called my mechanic, and he suggested getting confirmation from another brunswick dealer, that the k-66 rails never should have been put on. I dont doubt you guys, especially since the play field is not regulation size. In any case, are any of you affiliated with any brunswick dealers? Or, does anyone know who I could call at brunswick? Their site gives very little info. Much thanks-

Bambu

Dartman · Dec 22, 2008

Bambu said:
Well, I measured the play area today. Just like you guys said, the play area is bigger than it should be(50 1/4 X 100 1/2). I know this probably wont get me very far, but I intend to take this up with Blatt. Like you guys said, they shouldnt have put k-66 rubber on a gc3(even if I requested it). It plays like crap next to any other regulation simonis table, but the k-55's should fix the problem. Thanks again guys. I never would have figured this out by myself!
I called my mechanic, and he suggested getting confirmation from another brunswick dealer, that the k-66 rails never should have been put on. I dont doubt you guys, especially since the play field is not regulation size. In any case, are any of you affiliated with any brunswick dealers? Or, does anyone know who I could call at brunswick? Their site gives very little info. Much thanks-

Bambu

And the height of the nose of the cushions is ??

.

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