Death of the road runner

Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Road runners are all gone. Why?

Something from another thread gave me the idea for this one. I think most would agree the days of hundreds, if not thousands of players out on the road, scuffling. are over. Some of the most exciting, and even dangerous times in my life were out there, traveling from room to room, steered here, steered there, up alot of nights, sometimes sleeping in the day, busting people, going bust... Nothing I've ever done in my life really compares to that time. I learned a lot of things. Never take your cue in. Always be from the last town, 50 miles back down the road. Never look at the players when you walk in. NEVER chase your own money. And always... ALWAYS, have a c-note stuck under the floor mat in the car, so you can get home if you go bust.

That's all gone, now. Ok, yeah, there's a few road runners left. And, to me, those few deserve a medal. With everything they have to fade? I have two words for road runners these days. "Good luck".

Why did this happen? What killed the action? I *know* there's a zillion opinions out there. Feel free to wade right in. And, again, if this has been covered here prior ( odds are it has ), my apologies, I wasn't aware.
 
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G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
De420MadHatter said:
Internet, social media, etc...
Click to expand...
Big-time. A guy goes into a room and within minutes somebody has circulated his picture and has a line on his speed. In my area the casinos and poker killed almost all action pool. Stakehorses went for the action and a lot of players either went to work at a casino or turned to poker. Can't really blame them. The amount of money even a decent poker player can make now is light-years more than pool offers. Heck, one of the better local players won 260GRAND on a on-line poker site. The days of the road-dog are fading fast if not gone already. Too bad for sure.
 
Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
garczar said:
Big-time. A guy goes into a room and within minutes somebody has circulated his picture and has a line on his speed. In my area the casinos and poker killed almost all action pool. Stakehorses went for the action and a lot of players either went to work at a casino or turned to poker. Can't really blame them. The amount of money even a decent poker player can make now is light-years more than pool offers. Heck, one of the better local players won 260GRAND on a on-line poker site. The days of the road-dog are fading fast if not gone already. Too bad for sure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure casinos had something to do with it. And poker in general. It's just a shame. An entire way of life, gone...
 
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Michael Andros said:
Why did this happen? What killed the action? I *know* there's a zillion opinions out there. Feel free to wade right in. And, again, if this has been covered here prior ( odds are it has ), my apologies, I wasn't aware.
Click to expand...

Cell phones
Cell phones with cameras
Cell phones with cameras and internet
Poker
The fact that a lot of people quit betting that water was wet
McRib always comes back in the late fall
etc etc etc

The reasons are endless, and there is probably some truth to all of them in some fashion.

Pool is an analog game in a digital world. :thumbup:
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Travel expenses,food,lodging,gas all run the cost up
a player needs to be playing constantly all day with $100
minimum bets just to pay expenses

Seldom can you walk into a strange city and find action
when you do,it takes a lot of luck to find a person willing to play
a stranger.

The minute a stranger comes to dallas,he is or was steered into me,he walks in ,he knows me ,knows i have money and will bet so he walks up and says lets play some cheap

i don't know why but that is their canned presentation,i immediatelty know that they are players from out of town,steered by a local who usually arrives about 30 minutes before or after the hustler so as not to appear together

so i know by implication what is happening,their dress,their language,their cock sure pride,their obvious disdain at me because i don't empty my wallet.

well over the years i have busted so many of these so called road agents,its not funny. as a rule
it isn't difficult to beat these guys,they actually know little about hustling except they can beat a guy they know they can beat.

i could go on and explAIN STEP BY STEP THAT WHEN I SAW A ROAD AGENT I PLANNED ON BUSTING HIM AND HOW


but the point i make is this,the road agent isn't an expert at getting the money,and that is the only skill needed.
the reason the road agents are disappearing is because they are the only suckers left,aside from the fools who stake them

granted bar pool provides a venue for these guys to win easily,but my experience was that in college the bars closed at two,the bar players would then come to the cotton bowling palace,later times square,later rusty's and want to try their hand with pool players on the big table

i planned on gettin up about 3am dropping in around 4 and matching up

so the demise of pool is in direct relation to the fact that pool players are already broke and leaving town won't help them

i was playing a pool player,he had to get a stake horse to bet $500 pr game

i could hardly see why a man would want to stake a professional player that after several years of plying his trade,he was broke.what kind of idiot was he

to tell the truth i don't think about using the high tech stuff,i don't care who he is.i give him the test and he usually empties out

you take papa glenn,jack cooney,the elder john hager and a handful of others and the rest are suckers at home or away


now that's why the glamorous life of the road agent is like a vow of poverty

most players go bust at home,why do you think they need a stake horse
 
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Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
deanoc said:
Travel expenses,food,lodging,gas all run the cost up
a player needs to be playing constantly all day with $100
minimum bets just to pay expenses

Seldom can you walk into a strange city and find action
when you do,it takes a lot of luck to find a person willing to play
a stranger.

The minute a stranger comes to dallas,he is or was steered into me,he walks in ,he knows me ,knows i have money and will bet so he walks up and says lets play some cheap

i don't know why but that is their canned presentation,i immediatelty know that they are players from out of town,steered by a local who usually arrives about 30 minutes before or after the hustler so as not to appear together

so i know by implication what is happening,their dress,their language,their cock sure pride,their obvious disdain at me because i don't empty my wallet.

well over the years i have busted so many of these so called road agents,its not funny. as a rule
it isn't difficult to beat these guys,they actually know little about hustling except they can beat a guy they know they can beat.

i could go on and explAIN STEP BY STEP THAT WHEN I SAW A ROAD AGENT I PLANNED ON BUSTING HIM AND HOW


but the point i make is this,the road agent isn't an expert at getting the money,and that is the only skill needed.
the reason the road agents are disappearing is because they are the only suckers left,aside from the fools who stake them

granted bar pool provides a venue for these guys to win easily,but my experience was that in college the bars closed at two,the bar players would then come to the cotton bowling palace,later times square,later rusty's and want to try their hand with pool players on the big table

i planned on gettin up about 3am dropping in around 4 and matching up

so the demise of pool is in direct relation to the fact that pool players are already broke and leaving town won't help them

i was playing a pool player,he had to get a stake horse to bet $500 pr game

i could hardly see why a man would want to stake a professional player that after several years of plying his trade,he was broke.what kind of idiot was he

to tell the truth i don't think about using the high tech stuff,i don't care who he is.i give him the test and he usually empties out

you take papa glenn,jack cooney,the elder john hager and a handful of others and the rest are suckers at home or away


now that's why the glamorous life of the road agent is like a vow of poverty

most players go bust at home,why do you think they need a stake horse
Click to expand...


When I was out there, you were the type we wanted to get steered away from! :grin-square:

The way I see it, though, the reason good to very good to stone cold world champions want a staker is this: No matter how strong you play, EVERYONE books losers. Period. And If I'm gonna book a loser, why would I want to take the loss if I have someone else who's willing to? I would much rather take 50% of what I win than take a 100% loss of what I lose. Taking 0% of what I lose is much more attractive to me ( and, yeah... I know Grady's rolling his eyes right now, wherever he is ).

And just as in the reason people who like having sex in public do it because of the thrill of taking the chance they'll get caught, being out there scuffling is exciting for almost that same reason: that there's always that chance you're gonna get busted, 1000 miles from home. It's a dangerous proposition, yeah... but sometimes that's the adrenaline rush.
 
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Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
deanoc said:
Travel expenses,food,lodging,gas all run the cost up
a player needs to be playing constantly all day with $100
minimum bets just to pay expenses
Click to expand...

And by the way. Thanks For everything you've done for the pool community. I have no idea who you are, but I have seen over the past few weeks how much you've both done for and meant to the community. We need more like you.
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for kind words

i am through with the action,i never go to the pool room but i have a new table coming so
i hope to play again

nothing easy about being away from home with every thing you own riding on the game

then the nut is high,like the increasing blinds in a poker tournament,it forces you to play


and impatience is the prelude to going off,it all works against the road man

the only possible reason to go is because you know forsure where a high player
with a history of going off is

then it is necessary to have a proper image and introduction to the mark,so first you must locate and identify the mark,then you must create an environment conducive to enticing him into playing

i call this laying down the spread,by that i mean creating an image of yourself as a person with a lot of money and a lot of gamble but not an eager to play
or display the chasing image

i always say "fanning the flames of desire with the cool breeze of withdrawal"

it is no accident when a person wins big scores,there must be a studied program
or procedure,sometimes it is necessary to lose a little money in order to create the proper image and take advantage of a covetous activity in the mark

at any rate what little i am now discussing is only the very basics,and yet not one road agent out of 1000 even heard of what i am talking about

he is just hoping he can find an idiot who doesn't quit when it is obvious he should,then
he hopes its not scaring the guy away when you ask him to jack the bet

then it is necessary to get the guy to pay after every game so you need to lose the first game and pay off from your large stack,
unless of course it is not necessary or even desirable to pay after every game

it takes brains to win a big score,but any fool can lose his money,and a fool who shoots good pool is still a fool.

and of course the average pool player has such a low class image that it would take a perfect idiot not to betray himself

all these things combine to tell you why the roar runner is a dying species

and the only sad thing about losing them is the fact that it would hurt my income

if i were still playing,they are not a noble romantic breed of high class noble minded
community pillars,pool hustlers are the lowest form of gamblers and always have been


young man,if you are reading this,now would be a good time for you to quit pool ,get a job,find a good wife,become the kind of person you used to admire before you got the idea that life on the wild
side was a good idea
it is not,nor was it ever a good idea,however if a flife without friends family and financial security meand little to you,and you enjoy running with two bit creeps without any redeeming virtues welcome to hell
 
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jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
In the 60's and 70's there were a zillion poolrooms where you could get a game. All you had to do was walk in and tell them you were looking for a game and they would find someone to play you. It was not the best way to hustle but you stayed in action, and if you handled yourself right you made a few bucks ($50 was a good day!). And that brings us to the next point. Gas was .30 or .40 cents a gallon, a cheap motel was $10-15 a night and you could eat real well for ten bucks a day (five if you budgeted for only two meals!). I can remember the diners who served a .99 cent breakfast every day and the 1.99 specials a lot of coffee shops had for lunch.

Yes, there were some world beaters back then (Frisco Jack, Pete Glenn and Weldon Rogers come to mind) who made big scores. But there were also a thousand guys grinding out a living, some of them even saving money to open their own poolroom (yours truly being one). I always had a bank account with a few thou in it, something that a lot of top players didn't have. I can remember the day in 1971 when my bank account went over 10K. I thought I was a rich man! :rolleyes: Most good players (even the shortstops) could tell you a story of when they made a big score somewhere. The trick was holding onto the money. I made some decent money with Jimmy Reid first and then Keith. I held onto my end and they didn't. That was the difference. Damn, I remember Jimmy coming back from Detroit with 80K in the glove compartment of his new Caddy. We went cruising down Sunset with the top down having a ball. The money was all gone within a few months. :eek:

Frisco Dave Piona, an old buddy of mine, won 40K his first trip to Detroit and he laid in bed with all that money surrounding him. He slept like a baby. :D He also bought a new Caddy, but the rest of the cash disappeared pretty quickly, but he kept that ride for years. Everyone had their big win stories, but for the most part it was a grind every day, looking for a game and trying to make the nut. The smart guys saved some of their winnings for a rainy day and the others blew everything, either in Vegas or at the track.

I always had a 20 hidden somewhere, just so I knew I had get out of town money. :thumbup:
 
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deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay,you were one of the lucky few to survive
get a real business and be successful it is always good to read your stories

i detect a tone of genuine believably,i still enjoy the stories but
i wouldn't recommend the life to any youngsters
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
deanoc said:
jay,you were one of the lucky few to survive
get a real business and be successful it is always good to read your stories

i detect a tone of genuine believably,i still enjoy the stories but
i wouldn't recommend the life to any youngsters
Click to expand...

I'm slowly getting back in stroke too. I have a speed again ;). I may be a low B player currently but have aspirations of being a solid B player once more, low shortstop speed. :smile:
 
Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
deanoc said:
Thanks for kind words

i am through with the action,i never go to the pool room but i have a new table coming so
i hope to play again

nothing easy about being away from home with every thing you own riding on the game

then the nut is high,like the increasing blinds in a poker tournament,it forces you to play


and impatience is the prelude to going off,it all works against the road man

the only possible reason to go is because you know forsure where a high player
with a history of going off is

then it is necessary to have a proper image and introduction to the mark,so first you must locate and identify the mark,then you must create an environment conducive to enticing him into playing

i call this laying down the spread,by that i mean creating an image of yourself as a person with a lot of money and a lot of gamble but not an eager to play
or display the chasing image

i always say "fanning the flames of desire with the cool breeze of withdrawal"

it is no accident when a person wins big scores,there must be a studied program
or procedure,sometimes it is necessary to lose a little money in order to create the proper image and take advantage of a covetous activity in the mark

at any rate what little i am now discussing is only the very basics,and yet not one road agent out of 1000 even heard of what i am talking about

he is just hoping he can find an idiot who doesn't quit when it is obvious he should,then
he hopes its not scaring the guy away when you ask him to jack the bet

then it is necessary to get the guy to pay after every game so you need to lose the first game and pay off from your large stack,
unless of course it is not necessary or even desirable to pay after every game

it takes brains to win a big score,but any fool can lose his money,and a fool who shoots good pool is still a fool.

and of course the average pool player has such a low class image that it would take a perfect idiot not to betray himself

all these things combine to tell you why the roar runner is a dying species

and the only sad thing about losing them is the fact that it would hurt my income

if i were still playing,they are not a noble romantic breed of high class noble minded
community pillars,pool hustlers are the lowest form of gamblers and always have been


young man,if you are reading this,now would be a good time for you to quit pool ,get a job,find a good wife,become the kind of person you used to admire before you got the idea that life on the wild
side was a good idea
it is not,nor was it ever a good idea,however if a flife without friends family and financial security meand little to you,and you enjoy running with two bit creeps without any redeeming virtues welcome to hell
Click to expand...


Dean - And all that is precisely why, when I got married, I went to work, bought a house and spent the next 32 years working for the same company. I retired 2 yrs ago this past Sunday. Had I stayed in the pool room, I wouldn't have a pot to piss in. With very few exceptions, all the great players I grew up admiring either are broke, close to broke or passed away with not a whole lot to show for having been here. Some people would gladly trade a life of boredom and a 9 to 5 for 40 years for one of excitement and freedom, tinged with stress from not knowing where their next month's rent is coming from. It just depends on the person. Once I got married, my priorities changed. Would my life have been much different had I stayed in the pool room all day, every day? Probably. Or maybe not. But one thing's for sure. I most likely wouldn't have a house to show for it or enough money to pay my bills without having to work anymore. And there's something to be said for that, I think. At any rate, it's far too late to change it all now. As a good friend once told me, "What you eat and drink, can't affect the past." ;)
 
Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
In the 60's and 70's there were a zillion poolrooms where you could get a game. All you had to do was walk in and tell them you were looking for a game and they would find someone to play you. It was not the best way to hustle but you stayed in action, and if you handled yourself right you made a few bucks ($50 was a good day!). And that brings us to the next point. Gas was .30 or .40 cents a gallon, a cheap motel was $10-15 a night and you could eat real well for ten bucks a day (five if you budgeted for only two meals!). I can remember the diners who served a .99 cent breakfast every day and the 1.99 specials a lot of coffee shops had for lunch.

Yes, there were some world beaters back then (Frisco Jack, Pete Glenn and Weldon Rogers come to mind) who made big scores. But there were also a thousand guys grinding out a living, some of them even saving money to open their own poolroom (yours truly being one). I always had a bank account with a few thou in it, something that a lot of top players didn't have. I can remember the day in 1971 when my bank account went over 10K. I thought I was a rich man! :rolleyes: Most good players (even the shortstops) could tell you a story of when they made a big score somewhere. The trick was holding onto the money. I made some decent money with Jimmy Reid first and then Keith. I held onto my end and they didn't. That was the difference. Damn, I remember Jimmy coming back from Detroit with 80K in the glove compartment of his new Caddy. We went cruising down Sunset with the top down having a ball. The money was all gone within a few months. :eek:

Frisco Dave Piona, an old buddy of mine, won 40K his first trip to Detroit and he laid in bed with all that money surrounding him. He slept like a baby. :D He also bought a new Caddy, but the rest of the cash disappeared pretty quickly, but he kept that ride for years. Everyone had their big win stories, but for the most part it was a grind every day, looking for a game and trying to make the nut. The smart guys saved some of their winnings for a rainy day and the others blew everything, either in Vegas or at the track.

I always had a 20 hidden somewhere, just so I knew I had get out of town money. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


The c-note under the floor mat. That was the first thing Randy taught me. First order of business? C-note under the floor mat then forget it was ever there.
 
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