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CESSNA10
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05-05-2019, 07:43 AM

Given a partially open table I will make to the 20's about 4 out of 5 times
  
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ChrisinNC
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05-06-2019, 08:54 AM

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Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
Given a partially open table I will make to the 20's about 4 out of 5 times
That's pretty strong 14.1 playing - particularly if you can get in to the 30s+ at least once and maybe twice of those 4 times! It means 4/5 times you are able to completely run out the remaining rack and leave an ideal break ball and execute a successful break shot!
  
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05-06-2019, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
Given a partially open table I will make to the 20's about 4 out of 5 times
If that's your true percentage, there should be nothing stopping you from running 100 fairly frequently. That is, if you get to 20 from an open position 80% of the time, you should get to 40 64% of the time, and so on. The only thing that might hold you back would be a mental barrier when you get into uncharted territory.


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ChrisinNC
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05-06-2019, 10:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
If that's your true percentage, there should be nothing stopping you from running 100 fairly frequently. That is, if you get to 20 from an open position 80% of the time, you should get to 40 64% of the time, and so on. The only thing that might hold you back would be a mental barrier when you get into uncharted territory.
Bob, I agree. If Cessna10 is accurate with what he is claiming, there's no reason he hasn't yet run 100 balls, and he would certainly be considered among the higher levels of amateur 14.1 players, and could potentially hang with a pro level 14.1 player in a straight pool match to 100 or 150.

My high run is 98 on a 4-3/4" pocket 9-foot table, obtained nearly 20 years ago - I'm currently 62 year's old. I've rarely reached even a 50 ball run in the past 5+ years despite numerous frustrating attempts, although I realize that my chances are considerably hindered by limiting these 14.1 practice sessions to a 4-1/4" pocket table.

I would say when I'm practicing 14.1 and I set up an ideal break shot to start each run, realistically no more than 20% of the time can I get through the first rack with an ideal break shot set up to get in to the next rack, with a 20% chance for each successive rack. That computes to my chances of getting through 2 consecutive racks at any given time at 4%, the chances of getting through 3 racks (42 ball run) drops to less than 1%, etc, etc.

Probabilities tell me that based on the accuracy of those 20% odds to run a full rack and set up an ideal break ball, my chances of ever running 100 balls (7+ racks) is roughly 1 time in 8000 attempts. Even I'm able to increase my odds of running any given rack from the start from 20% up to 30%, my chances of ever running 100 balls (7+ racks), would still be less than 1 out of every 500 attempts. So realistically, I guess I need to start facing the grim reality that I'll never achieve my goal of a 100 ball run!

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 05-06-2019 at 12:51 PM. Reason: edit
  
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14-1StraightMan
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05-06-2019, 12:46 PM

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Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
Given a partially open table I will make to the 20's about 4 out of 5 times
Would like to see a video of a practice session.... We can get a better idea to where you stand with your skill level...… Maybe we can help with suggestions.
  
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Wally in Cincy
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06-10-2019, 11:19 AM

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Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
Wally
You describe yourself as a player who gets beat a lot, 25th best. Out of curiosity to
compare to myself, what sort of runs are you capable of. I frequently run in th20's occasisionlly
in the 30's but usually get out of position somewhere in the high 20's.
I just saw this. I don't get on here much lately.
My high run is 34 on my home table, 4 x 8 Brunswick Wellington
When our league was at SnookerS in Cincy we played on 9 ft. Robertsons with easy pockets (Gold Crown clones) My high run there was 28. I ran 24 a few times and ran 14 to 18 more times than I can count.

SnookerS closed and we moved to Michael's and 9-ft. Diamonds with tight pockets. The highest I have run there is about 20. It's just so hard to play position when you have to shoot most shots at pocket speed in order for the Diamond to not spit them back out..


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10-24-2019, 12:21 PM

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Originally Posted by 14-1StraightMan View Post
I totally agree with ChrisinNC… I have been running a 14.1 League in the Dallas area now for a few years. It is handicapped. That keeps players from being steamrolled. Plus, it is an incentive for the top players to knuckle down. Depending how many players sign up each season determines how many divisions. Next season I will have players going to 75, 90, 100, 110, 125 and myself to 175.... Great to hear about so many 14.1 leagues out there.
What formula do you use to establish a handicap?


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10-28-2019, 05:19 AM

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Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I would think best chance to minimize that from happening is to require players to pay the full fee up front to cover everything (including the table time for their matches) for the entire length of the league session. That gives a them a little more incentive to hang in there and continue to play their matches even when they've been eliminated from finishing high enough to win anything or qualify for the playoffs.

Yes, it may be humiliating for a player to lose by a very lopsided score to a far superior opponent, but as others have said, that's the best way to learn! However, I don't see these non-handicapped 14.1 leagues as being much a benefit to the clear top rated players, who except when they are playing each other, can steamroll through most of their matches. By contrast, if they have to give a considerably lower rated opponent a 50, 60, or even a 70 ball spot before they even start the race to 100 match, then they have to take it far more seriously and play a much smarter game.
The top players have a shot at a pretty good payday, And they are competing with the other top players for high runs and 1st place money. Bobby Hunter, Tom Karabatsos, Ike Runnels, John Rawski and others capable of running 50 or more make it competitive at that level. When they play lesser players, it is something of a lesson for them. Sometimes the winner will go over a few things with the loser after the game.

When we started the league, some thought only a few would sign up, but it has been 30 or more every session.
  
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Rich93
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10-28-2019, 12:33 PM

Just saw this, as I'm not a frequent visitor to AZB anymore, life gets in the way. I run the non-handicapped league that Dennis Walsh started in 2012. We play at Red Shoes Billiards in a Chicago suburb, a great room with equipment that is kept in top shape. The league has been very popular, much more so than the handicapped league I also run at Red Shoes. We currently have 35 players in the non-handicapped league. It only costs $15 per match, and that includes table time. Half goes into the prize fund.

For $15 we lesser players have the privilege of playing some of the best pool players in the Chicago area, many of whom Dennis mentioned above. We have a new player this session who ran a 58 and a 56 in the same game just this past week. It is a dead certainly that we wouldn't attract the quality of players that we do if it were a handicapped league - we know that because until 2012 Red Shoes ran only a handicapped league, and once the non-handicapped league started our better players all left to play in the new league.

Thanks to Dennis's recruitment efforts early on, we were able to attract some hundred ball runners to the league who had never bothered with the handicapped league. Ike Runnels, who plays all games at a high level, holds our league high run record of 165 (a player may continue a run if he ends the game on a run of 30 or more). Incidentally, Ike says that he will always play in the league because straight pool helps improve all his games.

As Slach, one of our players, suggests, I have to emphasize to the group the necessity of everybody getting their games played against prize money contenders. Sometimes there's a player or two whom I have to nudge individually. But it has been a manageable problem, and it's not surprising given 35 different personalities. I hesitate to make big changes to solve what has been a minor problem, and it's mainly a problem just for me.

I thank everyone for their good suggestions. I'm not saying the league couldn't be improved and I am open to change, but I am quite hesitant to mess with success.



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Last edited by Rich93; 10-28-2019 at 12:37 PM.
  
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10-28-2019, 12:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Rich93 View Post
Just saw this, as I'm not a frequent visitor to AZB anymore, life gets in the way. I run the non-handicapped league that Dennis Walsh started in 2012. We play at Red Shoes Billiards in a Chicago suburb, a great room with equipment that is kept in top shape. The league has been very popular, much more so than the handicapped league I also run at Red Shoes. We currently have 35 players in the non-handicapped league. It only costs $15 per match, and that includes table time. Half goes into the prize fund.

For $15 we lesser players have the privilege of playing some of the best pool players in the Chicago area, many of whom Dennis mentioned above. We have a new player this session who ran a 58 and a 56 in the same game just this past week. It is a dead certainly that we wouldn't attract the quality of players that we do if it were a handicapped league - we know that because until 2012 Red Shoes ran only a handicapped league, and once the non-handicapped league started our better players all left to play in the new league.

Thanks to Dennis's recruitment efforts early on, we were able to attract some hundred ball runners to the league who had never bothered with the handicapped league. Ike Runnels, who plays all games at a high level, holds our league high run record of 165 (a player may continue a run if he ends the game on a run of 30 or more). Incidentally, Ike says that he will always play in the league because straight pool helps improve all his games.

As Slach, one of our players, suggests, I have to emphasize to the group the necessity of everybody getting their games played against prize money contenders. Sometimes there's a player or two whom I have to nudge individually. But it has been a manageable problem, and it's not surprising given 35 different personalities. I hesitate to make big changes to solve what has been a minor problem, and it's mainly a problem just for me.

I thank everyone for their good suggestions. I'm not saying the league couldn't be improved and I am open to change, but I am quite hesitant to mess with success.
Great post aswell as others above. I have talked to a lot of players at my room and they really just want to play in a non handicap league. I will definitely take into account a lot of the ideas thrown in here. Races to 100 each week with two wild cards sounds like a good starting plan.

I will use something like an Elo tracker or other ranking system to have some sort of nice excel sheet made.
  
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12-11-2019, 03:24 PM

Hey hey hey! Just had to share this idea with you guys that someone passed on to me and would love to hear your opinions. I told one of the players about a non handicapped, races to 100 and they love the idea. But to make it fair to the lesser skilled players, mainly in the C-D range, do what the UBL does and give them ball in hand, but only during break shots.

I was thinking about it and it may not be a bad idea.
  
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12-11-2019, 03:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
Hey hey hey! Just had to share this idea with you guys that someone passed on to me and would love to hear your opinions. I told one of the players about a non handicapped, races to 100 and they love the idea. But to make it fair to the lesser skilled players, mainly in the C-D range, do what the UBL does and give them ball in hand, but only during break shots.

I was thinking about it and it may not be a bad idea.
Are you playing a race to 100 games in 9 ball or are you playing 100 point straight pool matches?
  
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12-15-2019, 04:40 PM

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Originally Posted by 14-1StraightMan View Post
I clip ....Next season I will have players going to 75, 90, 100, 110, 125 and myself to 175.... Great to hear about so many 14.1 leagues out there.

Your spread sounds similar to ours. We do struggle with getting enough players, as most folks around here (NW Atlanta suburbs) either play league 8 or 9 ball or are one pocket players. This season we have just 10 players - handicaps of 60, 75, 80, 85, 100, 105, 110, 115, 140, and 185.

We play on Diamonds generally, and high runs can be tough to come by. Our 185 has a 51, the 140 (me) has just a 25, our 115 jumped on a 29, and the rest are in the teens to a low of 11 for our 60.

We do incentivize on high run which is weighted off our 185. So the 11 by our 60 calculates to a 34 ball run, while my 25 works out to a 33. We do this to keep the lower handicap players from getting frustrated as well as giving the incentive to play for runs if that makes sense.



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12-21-2019, 12:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
Was talking with a fellow 14.1 league member and he suggested a league where all matches are to 100 with top 8 playoffs.

I've never ran a league but what problems would arise if you were to do something like that? I'm assuming the biggest problem would be the higher level player steamrolling everyone, even though that happens already in 9 ball leagues.
Yes, if you have a huge discrepancy in skill levels and 14.1 experience between the strongest and weakest players in the same league in which they play each other, very lobsided score results in straight pool races to 100 could possibly result in embarrassing and discouraging some newer and lower skilled players to the point that they quit participating in the league altogether, which would be unfortunate.
  
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