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01-13-2020, 07:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Danny Harriman View Post
I have been the last American standing at the Dragon 14.1 event (bronze medal), 1st place at the dcc straight pool challenge (both high run and tournament winner). I just wonder why I am unable to view the tape with my own eyes? I understand that Guinness Book of World Records does not acknowledge their claim as an actual record - is this because it has not been released for the main public to view?
I understand the 'semi public' can view it however? I am obviously not apart of the semi public or I would have seen it already, anyone who believes all they hear or read (without first seeing solid evidence) is a bit of a fool imho.

Kipchoge (Kenya) broke the 2 hr barrier in the marathon in a non traditional race format a couple months back, it was live streamed and OPEN for GENERAL PUBLIC to see on the tube. I do not see the same transparency in relation to schmidt and charlie's claim of this mystery 626 or the bca for that matter. Please note that I have competed against John many times in 14.1 and I acknowledge that he is an accomplished Straight Pool player who is capable of running 600 + on a 5" pocket table - I just want to know why they have not released the tape for the people to see. Please keep in mind that if they have not drawn a line around the triangle for us to see what balls are in or out of the rack - I would immediately discredit this run, if there is no line drawn around triangle - they will be using a large/thick triangle to rack with - as to help create more space for possible break shots. Till I see evidence - I will remain very skeptical. All of John's new sponsors / 14.1 hall of fame deal happened after the bca announced his new record - without releasing any footage to the general public. There seems to be some hidden pockets here - all I'm asking for is a little clarity on this mystery tape. Otherwise there just using his name to make a phony claim. My record against him is good in tournament competition - so I really have nothing to be jealous about ha ha. Besides I have no big sponsors and would probly never practice on 5" pockets anyhue.

Not really sure the difference between the semi public and general public - but it does sound kinda divisive, Anyone care to comment on why only the 'semi public' are allowed to see the private viewing of this tape? Just because of my list of accomplishments in the 14.1 discipline - does not give me anymore of a right to see proof, I am just like the rest of the general public - not allowed to see evidence after 9 months of this possible phony claim. Also if u believe everything u hear I am not interested in yer input either. I really feel that in order for john to get the hall of fame and new cue sponsor deal he had to come up with some new accomplishment - so they targeted Mosconi's record and then this hidden pocket mystery tape. The reason they will not release or try to market it in a traditional way - because the tape will not pass and has been altered. I am not the only one with this opinion either. his new cue sponsor will soon be trying to sell a cue that says mr. 626, the cue will probly be available to general public for sale but I would imagine they (the powers at b) will hide the tape for some time from the general public. I think semi public = john's facebook followers/ oblivious sheep.
I think the record is legit. For one, I've seen JS' other runs, and though his patterns are very unorthodox, his shotmaking and short position control are out of this world. He has several legit 400+ runs, and 626 isn't far fetched, given enough attempts.

Even IF the run is a fake and doctored in some way, I do not posess the expertise to determine that this is the case. If there is any professional involved in that hypothetical forgery, it would pretty much be impossible for a layman to spot.

We do not have any "claim" to be able to view the video, it's his to do with as he wishes. It's sad that he chose the route he did, mostly for the promotion of the game, but also to enthusiasts, like myself, who would very much like to see the video, for a number of reasons.

I'd love for some guy to absolutely WRECK JS' record and upload it to Youtube. Not many candidates for that task, and they weren't exactly lining up to beat the previous record either, so it may not happen for many years, if at all. Ours is a dying game.
  
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14.1 Straight Pool Continuous - 01-13-2020, 07:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
I think the record is legit. For one, I've seen JS' other runs, and though his patterns are very unorthodox, his shotmaking and short position control are out of this world. He has several legit 400+ runs, and 626 isn't far fetched, given enough attempts.

Even IF the run is a fake and doctored in some way, I do not posess the expertise to determine that this is the case. If there is any professional involved in that hypothetical forgery, it would pretty much be impossible for a layman to spot.

We do not have any "claim" to be able to view the video, it's his to do with as he wishes. It's sad that he chose the route he did, mostly for the promotion of the game, but also to enthusiasts, like myself, who would very much like to see the video, for a number of reasons.

I'd love for some guy to absolutely WRECK JS' record and upload it to Youtube. Not many candidates for that task, and they weren't exactly lining up to beat the previous record either, so it may not happen for many years, if at all. Ours is a dying game.
This game is not dying, but the players who(m) can play it well, sure as hell are. Mosconi died and took his playing secrets with him to the grave. People viewing his videos of him playing cannot and never will figure out what he was doing to play the game as well as he did. He would still be able to keep all of his opponents in today's world glued to their seats watching him play his game. Sorry, but that's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Best ever, forever.
  
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01-13-2020, 10:23 PM

I am not sure why any of this matters anyhow- how many other sports count non-competitive achievements in their record books? We measure greats in sports by their competitive achievements, not what they do in practice- pocket billiards should be no different. John has not been among the greats in competitive 14.1, that IS on record for all to see. Guinness book records are just about conversation points and have no bearing on evaluating greatness in sports.
  
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01-14-2020, 08:06 AM

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Originally Posted by mikemosconi View Post
I am not sure why any of this matters anyhow- how many other sports count non-competitive achievements in their record books? We measure greats in sports by their competitive achievements, not what they do in practice- pocket billiards should be no different. John has not been among the greats in competitive 14.1, that IS on record for all to see. Guinness book records are just about conversation points and have no bearing on evaluating greatness in sports.
I've made this point before on the forum more than once. When I do, it is usually followed by a pronounced assault on my sanity and dignity by other posters. John's run was a fine achievement, an undeniably historic accomplishment, but only the truly delusional believe that this run places John above so many players of this era that have outperformed him in 14.1 competition.
  
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01-14-2020, 08:38 AM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
I've made this point before on the forum more than once. When I do, it is usually followed by a pronounced assault on my sanity and dignity by other posters. John's run was a fine achievement, an undeniably historic accomplishment, but only the truly delusional believe that this run places John above so many players of this era that have outperformed him in 14.1 competition.
Agree 100%. It was an exhibition run, nothing more. TOTALLY different deal than missing a ball and possibly not shooting again.
  
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Falsehoods and other claims js626
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Falsehoods and other claims js626 - 01-14-2020, 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Agree 100%. It was an exhibition run, nothing more. TOTALLY different deal than missing a ball and possibly not shooting again.
Exhibition? Certainly not. JS was guaranteed an exclusive use of a table that would be out of the normal customer traffic so there would be no noticeable interference movement in his visual shooting during practice for his record attempts. Same guarantee for all record practice attempts. The attempts were only leveled for a record attempt after he reached a set score level of about 200 points. Smaller score levels noticeably below that number were cast off as non-record attempts and not even documented. So there is no real count as to how many so-called record attempts were made and discounted by js team. Most of js practice record attempts happened prior to the business even being open for customers every day. So, please if you know, include whom he performed this exhibition for. We only know of eight persons who signed as witnesses, All js team members save 2 and the business owner, none unbiased.
  
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01-14-2020, 09:35 AM

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Originally Posted by xradarx View Post
Exhibition? Certainly not. JS was guaranteed an exclusive use of a table that would be out of the normal customer traffic so there would be no noticeable interference movement in his visual shooting during practice for his record attempts. Same guarantee for all record practice attempts. The attempts were only leveled for a record attempt after he reached a set score level of about 200 points. Smaller score levels noticeably below that number were cast off as non-record attempts and not even documented. So there is no real count as to how many so-called record attempts were made and discounted by js team. Most of js practice record attempts happened prior to the business even being open for customers every day. So, please if you know, include whom he performed this exhibition for. We only know of eight persons who signed as witnesses, All js team members save 2 and the business owner, none unbiased.
Sir, you REALLY need to move on from this. Wow.
  
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Sir - 01-14-2020, 09:42 AM

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Sir, you REALLY need to move on from this. Wow.
You First!Practice what You preach. Let sleeping dogs lie! This lie has already layed an egg.
  
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roger this - 01-14-2020, 11:17 AM

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Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
I think the record is legit. For one, I've seen JS' other runs, and though his patterns are very unorthodox, his shotmaking and short position control are out of this world. He has several legit 400+ runs, and 626 isn't far fetched, given enough attempts.

Even IF the run is a fake and doctored in some way, I do not posess the expertise to determine that this is the case. If there is any professional involved in that hypothetical forgery, it would pretty much be impossible for a layman to spot.

We do not have any "claim" to be able to view the video, it's his to do with as he wishes. It's sad that he chose the route he did, mostly for the promotion of the game, but also to enthusiasts, like myself, who would very much like to see the video, for a number of reasons.

I'd love for some guy to absolutely WRECK JS' record and upload it to Youtube. Not many candidates for that task, and they weren't exactly lining up to beat the previous record either, so it may not happen for many years, if at all. Ours is a dying game.
Thanks for your input, I still see the facts lou figuero, myself and many others feel the tape will not pass the geek squad test - and we do hold firm in our belief. Couple years ago there was a dude (on this forum who stood next to John in his avatar) who claimed to have run a large amount of racks - but no one had ever heard of him being a top 14.1 player? Turned out he had doctored the video and the geek squad graph picked up immediately on where the ball he missed had been replaced. The fellow admitted to cheating and replacing the ball in question :-0 he still posts on az today and really did not feel any remorse for trying to cheat - in fact he thought it was funny. I know john and charlie, if they thought there was $ behind pulling a hoax on the public's eye - they would not even hesitate in doing so and probly laugh bout it too.

How come John's mystery tape is not subject to the same public scrutiny as john's buddy who was caught splicing footage together here on az? I was following his progress and heard that he had a bad skid around 421, again I really believe the cue sponsor and hall of fame deadline was closing in and they produced their western that very few have been allowed to view. he and charlie williams (one of his sponsors) have only allowed maybe fifty people to see the tape - in 9 months (private semi public viewing only). Under the oblivious sheep narrative I could claim an 800 ball run and if I had a few friends in the media - I could hide the tape from public eye i.e. 'general public' and use my past wins to help give the lie a leg to stand on - I will never do that - as it is not in my dna - thank God. When there are secrets there is larceny and or corruption - period. You are right bout one facet and that is - it is sad that he and charlie chose to promote fake news to slip john into hall of fame. I have read your posts and know that you are a true student of the game, don't let charlie, bca, and nyslimes make you a media puppet. Adios and better - more honest days for our media Straight Pool. Once the run has been tested by the geek squad graph - I will believe it - there is a problem with the tape and this is why they will not release the so called footage - yes very sad indeed. Soon his new cue sponsor will come out with a 626 cue and less than 1/10th of 1% of the worlds population will have seen the footage of this 'mystery tape' - very sad our drive by news media is - very sad. Check out when I played him a race to 400 an a tight diamond tar match for big $ - oh his sponsors may keep that hidden from the general public as well. Anyone who needs a copy - talk to me.


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01-14-2020, 06:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Danny Harriman View Post
Thanks for your input, I still see the facts lou figuero, myself and many others feel the tape will not pass the geek squad test - and we do hold firm in our belief. Couple years ago there was a dude (on this forum who stood next to John in his avatar) who claimed to have run a large amount of racks - but know one had ever heard of him being a top 14.1 player? Turned out he had doctored the video and the geek squad graph picked up immediately on where the ball he missed had been replaced. The fellow admitted to cheating and replacing the ball in question :-0 he still posts on az today and really did not feel any remorse for trying to cheat - in fact he thought it was funny. I know john and charlie, if they thought there was $ behind pulling a hoax on the public's eye - they would not even hesitate in doing so and probly laugh bout it too.

How come John's mystery tape is not subject to the same public scrutiny as john's buddy who was caught splicing footage together here on az? I was following his progress and heard that he had a bad skid around 421, again I really believe the cue sponsor and hall of fame deadline was closing in and they produced their western that very few have been allowed to view. he and charlie williams (one of his sponsors) have only allowed maybe fifty people to see the tape - in 9 months (private semi public viewing only). Under the oblivious sheep narrative I could claim an 800 ball run and if I had a few friends in the media - I could hide the tape from public eye i.e. general public and use my past wins to help give the lie a leg to stand on - I will never do that - as it is not in my dna - thank God. When there are secrets there is larceny and or corruption - period. You are right bout one facet and that is - it is sad that he and charlie chose to promote fake news to slip john into hall of fame. I have read your posts and know that you are a true student of the game, don't let charlie, bca, and nyslimes make you a media puppet. Adios and better - more honest days for our media Straight Pool. Once the run has been tested by the geek squad graph - I will believe it - there is a problem with the tape and this is why they will not release the so called footage - yes very sad indeed. Soon his new cue sponsor will come out with a 626 cue and less than 1% of the worlds population will have seen the footage - very sad our drive by news media is - very sad. Check out when I played him a race to 400 an a tight diamond tar match for big $ - oh his sponsors may keep that hidden from the general public as well. Anyone who needs a copy - talk to me.

OK, since I've been mentioned by name, (sort of, lol), I'll say this: I would like to see an unedited version of the tape.

I do not have faith in the BCA and I do not have faith in anyone's say-so for this level of claimed accomplishment. That is not a slam against JS. It is simply the old Carl Sagan standard, which I have quoted several times before: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

So, before anyone launches into the old -- there's no video of Mosconi's run -- yes, that's true. But that really wasn't readily available in his day and certainly not on the the night of a one-off, run-of-the-mill exhibition on his schedule. Thankfully, someone had the foresight to gather the signatures for an affidavit so we would have some faith in the run besides Mosconi's say-so. However, if Mosconi had made his run in today's day and age, I think all would agree it would be reasonable to ask for the video so we could all review it. Same for JS.

Frankly, the fact that video evidence of JS's run is being so closely guarded -- supposedly for financially related reasons -- gives me (and should give all of you) pause.

I mean: what financial reasons?

At this stage of the game, JS's approach to marketing the run is an unmitigated disaster. Having waited so long vs striking while interest was strong right after the run was accomplished, it will be a miracle now if he eventually recoups anything of monetary significance.

So did he do it? Probably.

BUT -- were there questionable issues with the run, fouls, and/or equipment that would give the average 14.1 aficionado pause... maybe. We may never know.

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01-14-2020, 07:20 PM

There are a lot of legitimate questions regarding this 626 run that are only gaining more and more traction by John痴 refusal to release a video of the entire run. Personally I知 not going to consider it as legit until I carefully watch the entire run. As a lifelong 14.1 player, I知 just very curious as to how many extremely hard shots he had to make to keep this run alive? If it turns out to be too many, I値l just form my own opinion as to whether or not to believe it.
  
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01-14-2020, 09:30 PM

Ok after reading a few things I will break my silence of sorts. Danny I will say exactly what Ive said before many times. I consider you a friend and I have gotten fortunate enough to see many of the games greatest play and spoke to many that are no longer around including Mosconi and Lassiter.
As I am a historian and an accomplished player of a few high runs myself I have said I considered you to have what is considered a very boring straight pool game because you have such great patterns and always seem to shoot the right shots at the right time with the best cue ball control with all the elite players that have ever played. I have seen you completely dominate several tournaments including Peter Burrows straight pool events literally like you were just practicing taking about the same time between each shot and 50% or better of your shots hitting with the same speed.
As far as you starting this thread and the history between you and Schmidt no one should have any issues with anything you have to say as absolutely you have earned the right as I also have been a victim of Johns completely inappropriate behavior. I never once started the issues between us as it was John and when we spoke several times before I always liked to root him on as he is truly one of our best American 14.1 players. Johns behavior to destroy and put down everything around him to gain advantages and to satisfy his ego is the worse of any top player Ive ever seen. I would recommend to you Danny to just let it go and be the better person as for the people that don't know his character as ive just stated about few have ever been around him enough times and the ones to defend him are the pure nuthuggers and most of them don't understand enough about pool to know about sharking or even have ever ran 50 balls to know about 14.1 anyways. I hope Johns recent runs would help our game but its not looking that way at the moment.


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rodent to hawk - 01-15-2020, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
There are a lot of legitimate questions regarding this 626 run that are only gaining more and more traction by John痴 refusal to release a video of the entire run. Personally I知 not going to consider it as legit until I carefully watch the entire run. As a lifelong 14.1 player, I知 just very curious as to how many extremely hard shots he had to make to keep this run alive? If it turns out to be too many, I値l just form my own opinion as to whether or not to believe it.
have u gone from a rodent (most impressive asspec of schmidt's run) to a hawk of truth? What ever made u change yer mind - maybe it was yer conscience eh? Welcome to the politically in-correct air waves there Chris in North Carolina.


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01-15-2020, 10:18 AM

Wouldn't know if it is or not as he has not made any public viewing in NY. If he ever does I'll do my best to go watch it and report back.

for now, if he wants to monetize it the way he is, good for him. It's not as if pool players can make a living playing pool right?
  
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Thank you - 01-15-2020, 10:25 AM

Sorry to have misspell your name Lou :-). Thanks for the kind words Wrldpro, yes john has thrown chalk at me while I was sitting in my chair - after he snookered himself in our first tar match and then acted as if I was out of line for questioning such behavior? So I too have seen first hand how he acts when faced with a formidable opponent - he is a disgrace to the game when he's losing. As far as letting it go Wrlpro - as the Beatles would say 'Let It Be', I have tried to not resist the tides of change with my own force. However - I won't with this, the first pocket billiard book I was gifted was Mosconi's, it greatly improved my game as a young shaver and I look forward to the mystery tape of 626 washing ashore 4 john cue public to see - I think there hoping the evidence will be devoured by the sharks - not going to happen.

I concur with you Lou - extraordinary claims - do require extraordinary evidence. Or as Uncle Ben would say "With great power comes - great responsibility". They have made a powerful claim - now let them be responsible or held accountable for the grandeur claim. Thank you Lou and Wrldpro for being a breath of fresh air to the media slime that exists in our society today. They have eluded the responsibility aspect of showing evidence - they should be ashamed of themselves, using the public as if we are apart of a hall of fame media experiment - in order to try and put a player like schmidt on what is possibly a very phony pedestal is truly a sad state of affairs for our great game of 14.1. Yall are both good players and it makes sense that you would want to see evidence - as I do. I do not question that schmidt is not a hall of fame candidate, however if part of that deal was to mislead the public and hide the evidence - it's a travesty to Mosconi's record. Also keep in mind there was an affidavit with fifteen signatures for Mosconi's claim - and the pool room was open. In john's run there were 3 people present and the pool room was closed.

I have said this before and I will say it again, Steak 'n Shake says (good steak burger) - 'if it's out in sight - it must be right', One of my favorite musicians Charlie Rich said no one knows what goes on 'behind closed doors'. The mystery tape of their claim - remains behind closed doors.


One of the best Straight Pool players - on any soil - or gravity for the matter.

Last edited by Danny Harriman; 01-15-2020 at 11:11 AM.
  
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