I'm thinking about buying one, would it work? If not, I'll stick to 9 ball 10 ball rack.
Magic rack for straight pool?
- Thread starter Cameron Smith
- Start date
Magic rack
It really only works well for the games with a 'blast' style break. You can rack a tight full rack, but it definately changes the dynamics of the 14.1 and one pocket breaks, and the rest of the rack, because you would be unable to remove it like you usually can in 10, 9 and 8 ball. It works great in those games, and helps protect your cloth for straight pool racks!
It really only works well for the games with a 'blast' style break. You can rack a tight full rack, but it definately changes the dynamics of the 14.1 and one pocket breaks, and the rest of the rack, because you would be unable to remove it like you usually can in 10, 9 and 8 ball. It works great in those games, and helps protect your cloth for straight pool racks!
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If you're looking for a perfectly tight rack every time you'd be much better off with the Slug Doctor for straight pool. The dots are thinner and therefore less intrusive during play and they make a smaller foot print than the Magic Rack.
I don't think it would work very well for any game where there's not much of a chance of removing it after the opening shot on a rack. 1P comes to mind also.
I agree with this -- the Slug Doctor is a much better "stay on table" racking device than the Magic Rack for non-blast-'em-open games like 14.1 or One Pocket. I have an SD, and those Avery labels are so thin, that I've only ever encountered a few roll-offs -- and those only occurred during One Pocket (not 14.1), when a very gently-struck/gently-bumped ball took its last roll, and "settled sideways" into one of the Avery labels on the table because it caught that label just right and at the right [dying] speed.
-Sean
Old School
Sean, there is no doubt that if you say those two rack devices are good, then I believe it to be true with the kind of respect that I have for you. I have never played with either. BUT... in my mind, if a ball rolls off one time, then it is too much.
I lost a really good high run one time b/c my cue ball was among a cluster of balls and an object ball was just about to stop in a position for my run to continue and it rolled off course b/c of the paper spot......
I draw my spot on my table with a felt pen now along with my rack out line. Anyways, I guess that I am too "Old School" and I still rack the balls with a good solid old fashion wood rack.
Also, I know that with those two devices at least the rack is always solid and there is no chance of balls separating as they some times do with old fashion wood racks. I guess what it comes down too is each player's preference, which is totally important when it comes to their own game rooms.
Sean, there is no doubt that if you say those two rack devices are good, then I believe it to be true with the kind of respect that I have for you. I have never played with either. BUT... in my mind, if a ball rolls off one time, then it is too much.
I lost a really good high run one time b/c my cue ball was among a cluster of balls and an object ball was just about to stop in a position for my run to continue and it rolled off course b/c of the paper spot......
I draw my spot on my table with a felt pen now along with my rack out line. Anyways, I guess that I am too "Old School" and I still rack the balls with a good solid old fashion wood rack.
Also, I know that with those two devices at least the rack is always solid and there is no chance of balls separating as they some times do with old fashion wood racks. I guess what it comes down too is each player's preference, which is totally important when it comes to their own game rooms.
Mike:
I wouldn't consider myself a fan of the Magic Rack -- not only for the "blast 'em open" games like 8-/9-/10-ball, but just in general -- i.e. the idea of leaving a triangular strip of acetate plastic on the table is even worse than those paper spots.
And, although I mentioned the Slug Doctor would be a better alternative to the Magic Rack for a "stay on table" racking device, I would much prefer my Delta-13 Elite.
Like you, I'm a fan of pristine cloth -- no paper spots, lines drawn on the cloth, and using a standard precision triangle to rack the balls with. Everything to minimize roll-off of a ball. All it takes is less than an eighth of an errant turn of a ball, and it could mean the difference in whether you have an open shot, or yet another cluster that you now have to deal with, or now your cue ball is frozen to an object ball because it "rocked sideways" into a divot or into the "stay on table" racking device itself. Like you said -- that right there is a run-ender. And a catalyst for a production run from the Expletives Machine[TM].
But when I'm in a pool room playing on a table where I can't get a tight rack due to divots and damage in the cloth (and it's the only table available), it's nice to pull out the Slug Doctor and precision-apply some Avery labels to deal with the situation. It's better than standing there, tapping balls to stay in place (thus further divoting the cloth), etc. Sure, I'll have to deal with the existing divots and damage in the cloth as I shoot balls and get position through the racking area (the Slug Doctor does nothing to solve that), but at least I'm not standing there, cursing and getting angry because balls won't stay frozen when racking.
Like you, give me a decent table with good cloth, no divots/damage in the racking area, no paper spot, and a precision triangle rack anytime -- that's what I prefer.
Great input, Mike!
-Sean
Wouldn't the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor be better for straight pool just because of the footprint? Then you could have your 15th ball closer to the rack and not have it get spotted. I don't play very much straight pool and I'm genuinely curious about people's opinions on this.
I am not a fan of the magic rack, and especially not for 14.1, since most of the time a majority of balls are left in the rack area after playing a break out shot. and then you are shooting over a obstruction, try to shoot a ball softly over a speedbump and it is pretty much the same thing.
Now the Delta 13 on the other hand is the best rack on the market !!!
-Steve
Now the Delta 13 on the other hand is the best rack on the market !!!
-Steve
Reasons why "stay-on-table" racking devices don't work for 14.1
Hi Jarrod!
Welcome to the wonderful world of 14.1! We're a friendly bunch here, always willing to help, and you'll see folks on here rooting for each other to get better and better.
To answer your question, there are two reasons why a "stay on table" racking device like the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor is not amenable for straight pool:
1. Especially so with the Magic Rack, it disturbs the path of softly-hit/softly-bumped balls through the racking area, as they roll over the device itself. The effect is much less pronounced with the Slug Doctor, but it's still there, and when it does affect you, it's usually at the most inopportune time. E.g. the cue ball may take its last roll and "fall sideways" into one of the racking device's ball-positioning divots, and the cue ball is now frozen up against an object ball, where you have no shot and your run comes to an end. 9-ballers inexperienced at the game of 14.1 may snidely say, "well, then don't hit balls so softly in the racking area." That shows their inexperience, because experienced 14.1 players know that the best way to break-up clusters and reposition/bump balls, is SOFTLY, so that you can better control their final position when they come to rest. You don't just whack balls through that area willy-nilly, with complete abandon, because you will pay the price -- e.g. balls clustering up near the cushion, losing your break ball and key ball, etc.
2. There's a point of diminishing returns with regards to the proximity of a break ball to the rack. That is, it's entirely possible to have a break ball TOO CLOSE to the rack, where you can't even shoot it -- i.e. you can't get the cue ball "in there" to cut the object ball enough to pocket it, without a ball in the rack itself obstructing the cut angle. Sure, you could probably put a lot of outside english on the cue ball to "spin" the object ball in (and taking speed off the stroke so that the outside english "takes better" to the object ball), but what have you just done? Now you're relegated to hitting the break shot softly, with a lot of spin on the cue ball, just trying to "throw" the object ball into the pocket. The cue ball now stands a good chance of becoming glued to the side of the pack, or very close to it, without a subsequent shot.
Consider the following break shot (attached below). This is one of the few break shots that "fits" inside the already-slim profile of the Delta-13 rack (a break ball located here would be spotted on the head spot if using a Delta-13), but doesn't interfere with racking using the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor. But this is an "impossible" break shot, because you can't shoot the cue ball "in there" enough to cut the object ball into the nearest corner pocket. Well, you can, but you have to use a TON of left english (two-and-a-half tips) to "throw" the object ball into the pocket, and you have to hit it softly for the english to "take." You won't like the subsequent yield -- the cue ball's outside english becomes "checking" english against the side of the rack, and it dies right there. You're lucky if a ball creeps out enough to even see it, much less pocket it. (More likely, that ball will be on the other side of the rack, with the rack itself being a "blockade" for the cue ball.)
This same "break-ball-being-too-close-to-the-rack" situation occurs almost no matter what side of the rack it's on -- including underneath the rack. There's only one break ball situation where a rack would normally get in the way, but a "stay on table" racking device (like the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor) would allow it. And that's where the break ball is located very close to the foot spot (very close to the first row of two balls in the 14-ball rack), where the break shot is into the side pocket, the resulting cue ball angle going into the top row of balls in the rack (that diagram is attached as well).
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
Hi Jarrod!
Welcome to the wonderful world of 14.1! We're a friendly bunch here, always willing to help, and you'll see folks on here rooting for each other to get better and better.
To answer your question, there are two reasons why a "stay on table" racking device like the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor is not amenable for straight pool:
1. Especially so with the Magic Rack, it disturbs the path of softly-hit/softly-bumped balls through the racking area, as they roll over the device itself. The effect is much less pronounced with the Slug Doctor, but it's still there, and when it does affect you, it's usually at the most inopportune time. E.g. the cue ball may take its last roll and "fall sideways" into one of the racking device's ball-positioning divots, and the cue ball is now frozen up against an object ball, where you have no shot and your run comes to an end. 9-ballers inexperienced at the game of 14.1 may snidely say, "well, then don't hit balls so softly in the racking area." That shows their inexperience, because experienced 14.1 players know that the best way to break-up clusters and reposition/bump balls, is SOFTLY, so that you can better control their final position when they come to rest. You don't just whack balls through that area willy-nilly, with complete abandon, because you will pay the price -- e.g. balls clustering up near the cushion, losing your break ball and key ball, etc.
2. There's a point of diminishing returns with regards to the proximity of a break ball to the rack. That is, it's entirely possible to have a break ball TOO CLOSE to the rack, where you can't even shoot it -- i.e. you can't get the cue ball "in there" to cut the object ball enough to pocket it, without a ball in the rack itself obstructing the cut angle. Sure, you could probably put a lot of outside english on the cue ball to "spin" the object ball in (and taking speed off the stroke so that the outside english "takes better" to the object ball), but what have you just done? Now you're relegated to hitting the break shot softly, with a lot of spin on the cue ball, just trying to "throw" the object ball into the pocket. The cue ball now stands a good chance of becoming glued to the side of the pack, or very close to it, without a subsequent shot.
Consider the following break shot (attached below). This is one of the few break shots that "fits" inside the already-slim profile of the Delta-13 rack (a break ball located here would be spotted on the head spot if using a Delta-13), but doesn't interfere with racking using the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor. But this is an "impossible" break shot, because you can't shoot the cue ball "in there" enough to cut the object ball into the nearest corner pocket. Well, you can, but you have to use a TON of left english (two-and-a-half tips) to "throw" the object ball into the pocket, and you have to hit it softly for the english to "take." You won't like the subsequent yield -- the cue ball's outside english becomes "checking" english against the side of the rack, and it dies right there. You're lucky if a ball creeps out enough to even see it, much less pocket it. (More likely, that ball will be on the other side of the rack, with the rack itself being a "blockade" for the cue ball.)
This same "break-ball-being-too-close-to-the-rack" situation occurs almost no matter what side of the rack it's on -- including underneath the rack. There's only one break ball situation where a rack would normally get in the way, but a "stay on table" racking device (like the Magic Rack or Slug Doctor) would allow it. And that's where the break ball is located very close to the foot spot (very close to the first row of two balls in the 14-ball rack), where the break shot is into the side pocket, the resulting cue ball angle going into the top row of balls in the rack (that diagram is attached as well).
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
Attachments
I think you are all right that it wouldn't work well. My initial thought was that the balls in the rack area would just be bumped around for the first part of the rack and then eventually I could just take it off once the rack clears away. But I can imagine softly nudging the balls and not much happening because a ball was stuck in the hole thingy, which I think is the biggest issue.
Still gonna get them though, I'm tired of fiddling with shitty warped racks at the pool halls.
Still gonna get them though, I'm tired of fiddling with shitty warped racks at the pool halls.
Cameron:
How about a TrueRack (basically a "kind of Delta-13 that folds up") or even a Delta-13 itself?
For the latter, a MasterRack carrying case holds a Delta-13 conveniently for travel:
Just a thought,
-Sean
Cameron:
How about a TrueRack (basically a "kind of Delta-13 that folds up") or even a Delta-13 itself?
For the latter, a MasterRack carrying case holds a Delta-13 conveniently for travel:
Just a thought,
-Sean
The problem with the Delta-13 is it's so bloody expensive. I also have to buy a new case as mine is showing wear and tear.
My concern about buying my own rack is I don't want to get too used to it. Tournaments generally won't let a player bring in they're own rack, so I don't want to create a condition for myself wherein I can only approach my best under x conditions. Kinda why I refuse to buy my own cue ball. That said, my frustration outweighs my concern in so far as I don't want to be spending forever trying to get a good rack.
Siiigh decisions,decisions. I'm gonna go play snooker tomorrow lol.
The Delta regular rack is $45 right now at the AZB Marketplace. Add a 2 pack of BD chalk and your over the $49 free shipping minimum.
if you want a tight rack by any means, I would suggest a template for preparing the cloth the way they do in Europe (Eurotours and ECs). It is not necessary to bang the balls in the slate until there are craters in the cloth, but even a slight treatment would allow you to proceed with your favorite rack, either wooden or Delta13, with ease.
Hi Cameron!
The problem is that the bolded statements in the two posts above are somewhat contradictory. If you purchase a Magic Rack or Slug Doctor, you are in essence "getting used to this type of rack" as well as "bringing your own rack with you." The cost difference between a "stay on table" rack versus a standard triangle doesn't change that circumstance. Correct me if I'm wrong?
Methinks you're between a rock and a hard place on this one. Personally, I'm glad I got used to using a good rack. It helps me to recognize what a good rack is all about, almost like second nature.
And you know the funny thing? It also helped my racking abilities with a standard junk rack. By recognizing how the balls fit so tightly in the Delta-13, it modified my racking technique when NOT using it!
I found out that much of the reason why the "junk" racks perform so poorly, is because of the inability to pinch the balls tightly towards the top/apex of the rack. (That is, a lot of racks "wear" in a way where the headball "jams" into a little chamfer on the inside surface of the rack, caused by that ball's wear and tear in the same spot, so that head ball will proceed no further past that point into the apex of the rack.) So what I do, in *any* game where I'm using a junk rack (8-ball, 10-ball, 14.1, 1P, it doesn't matter), is to rack the balls with the head ball missing, applying pressure with the fingers from the bottom of the rack to wedge the formation together tightly towards the apex. Obviously, while keeping them tight, I position the formation carefully where the missing head ball's location is right over the footspot. I then remove the junk rack from the balls, being careful not to disturb them, and then roll the head ball into place at the apex, being careful to slowly position it until it's touching both balls in that top row, and then move my hands away.
Obviously this technique isn't allowed in those tournaments where you're not allowed to "touch" the balls after the racking device is removed (e.g. SBE Open/Pro 10-ball). But the lion's share of most places won't mind, and you'll actually get a tighter rack this way out of a piece of junk rack. It's worth a shot!
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
14.1 perfect rack
Quite simple for this situation. www.racktight.com. I beleive that using wooden triangles or plastic racks cannot get the balls tight no matter if the cloth is new or old and to try nto use a template that has to stay on the table until the balls clear free of it are useless.
I use the racktight system and it works perfect.It gives you a good observation where the balls will be set up in the next rack and incredibly the balls seem to seperate easier on my breakshots as all the balls when set in place are all touching.The racktight layout only cost around $15.00 and beleive me it works.I have really put up some nice runs using this layout including my 311 on a diamond pro table.
Bobby Chamberlain
Quite simple for this situation. www.racktight.com. I beleive that using wooden triangles or plastic racks cannot get the balls tight no matter if the cloth is new or old and to try nto use a template that has to stay on the table until the balls clear free of it are useless.
I use the racktight system and it works perfect.It gives you a good observation where the balls will be set up in the next rack and incredibly the balls seem to seperate easier on my breakshots as all the balls when set in place are all touching.The racktight layout only cost around $15.00 and beleive me it works.I have really put up some nice runs using this layout including my 311 on a diamond pro table.
Bobby Chamberlain
I'm not sure how the racktight system is a solution for the OP's situation. Isn't it a single use product? At $15 per application it's probably cost prohibitive for his needs.
Cool idea, I'll try it tomorrow. I know I'm being contradictory, I'm just thinking outloud. From the perspective of practicing the break, I think it's better to get a consistent rack in order to gauge your results better.
The racktight thing looks interesting too, however I don't own a table. Hopefully I'll get one within the year!
I have just discovered this product, seems good for 14.1!
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3703294#post3703294
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3703294#post3703294