Using English & A Missed Shot

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/b16bb.svg


I had this spread today. I hit the 2B with about a tip of left English to come off the rail and on the other side of the 7B so I would have a good angle to come off the rail when I pocket the 3B to get to the 4B. I didn't want to take any chances at contacting the 7B and I thought the left English would take me on the other side of it.

However, when I used the left English I squirted the CB just enough to the left so that, along with the spin turning the 2B slightly to the right, caused me to miss the 2B as shown.

What did I do wrong? Is this the way to play this shot? I've practiced similar type English shots 40,000 times over the years.

r/DCP
 
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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hey dcp, I'm learning like you, but I'm curious- even tho you missed the 2, where did the cue ball end up using the one tip of left? did you get in a good position for the 3?
 
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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
evergruven said:
hey dcp, I'm learning like you, but I'm curious- even tho you missed the 2, where did the cue ball end up using the one tip of left? did you get in a good position for the 3?
Click to expand...

Yes, I had the perfect position for the 3B that I wanted so I could go over for the 4B.

What messed me up was using the left english. I didn't see any other way to play the shot. A little low on the CB would have left be a steeper angle on the 3B and I didn't want that.

It frustrates me that, after practicing using english a million times, that I missed this shot.

r/DCP
 
philly

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know this is rather simplistic and I am not an instructor but the throw could not be that much since it is a rather soft shot.
Perhaps you hit the 2 at the wrong point. I always remember what Allison Fisher said "Hit the object ball at the point that is furthest from the pocket."

Sometimes we complicate the game.
 
skipbales

skipbales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/b16bb.svg


I had this spread today. I hit the 2B with about a tip of left English to come off the rail and on the other side of the 7B so I would have a good angle to come off the rail when I pocket the 3B to get to the 4B. I didn't want to take any chances at contacting the 7B and I thought the left English would take me on the other side of it.

However, when I used the left English I squirted the CB just enough to the left so that, along with the spin turning the 2B slightly to the right, caused me to miss the 2B as shown.

What did I do wrong? Is this the way to play this shot? I've practiced similar type English shots 40,000 times over the years.

r/DCP
Click to expand...

Left English moves the cue ball to the right and you have to allow for that. With parallel English it is a matter of aiming a little left when you use left. A high speed shot you might use back hand English but Either a slight front hand English or the parallel shift works better for me at slow speeds. Dr. Dave does a very good video explanation of your options on his VEPPS series. Here is a link to the relevant section https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXJoFOLZZE
 
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skipbales

skipbales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/b16bb.svg


I had this spread today. I hit the 2B with about a tip of left English to come off the rail and on the other side of the 7B so I would have a good angle to come off the rail when I pocket the 3B to get to the 4B. I didn't want to take any chances at contacting the 7B and I thought the left English would take me on the other side of it.

However, when I used the left English I squirted the CB just enough to the left so that, along with the spin turning the 2B slightly to the right, caused me to miss the 2B as shown.

What did I do wrong? Is this the way to play this shot? I've practiced similar type English shots 40,000 times over the years.

r/DCP
Click to expand...

I had a second thought about this. I remember a similar discussion you had before. It sounds like you over correct. Left English moves the cue ball to the right and causes an undercut. You would hit the ball too full not too thin. If you are hitting it too thin you are over correcting.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
skipbales said:
I had a second thought about this. I remember a similar discussion you had before. It sounds like you over correct. Left English moves the cue ball to the right and causes an undercut. You would hit the ball too full not too thin. If you are hitting it too thin you are over correcting.
Click to expand...
And/or (especially with a softish hit like this) not accounting for swerve.

pj
chgo
 
E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tried this shot today a few times..killing the cue ball worked best for me, 8 ft. table medium speed cloth
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
... However, when I used the left English I squirted the CB just enough to the left so that, along with the spin turning the 2B slightly to the right, caused me to miss the 2B as shown.

What did I do wrong? ...
Click to expand...
You aimed too thin on the two ball. Try playing the shot with varying amounts of side and speed and draw/follow until you can make the ball under all conditions. Or if you don't want to practice it for that long, at least make it once for five or six different conditions.

Also, you used the term "squirt" incorrectly. "Squirt" is a synonym for "cue ball deflection" which would move the cue ball to the right of the aiming line with left side spin. "Swerve" is the term that is used to describe the curve of the cue ball to the side of the english, which would be a curve to the left in this case which would cause you to miss as illustrated.
 
skipbales

skipbales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
You aimed too thin on the two ball. Try playing the shot with varying amounts of side and speed and draw/follow until you can make the ball under all conditions. Or if you don't want to practice it for that long, at least make it once for five or six different conditions.

Also, you used the term "squirt" incorrectly. "Squirt" is a synonym for "cue ball deflection" which would move the cue ball to the right of the aiming line with left side spin. "Swerve" is the term that is used to describe the curve of the cue ball to the side of the english, which would be a curve to the left in this case which would cause you to miss as illustrated.
Click to expand...

I ran across this with DQP once before. He was attributing "squirt" to a missed shot but had the effect backwards. He missed the shot on the opposite side of what the squirt would have caused. It was a fairly hard hit shot where swerve was less influential so I drew the conclusion he over corrects as a general rule. He is probably simply aiming wrong when applying side spin. It would be interesting to know if he is applying BHE or FHE or just parallel shift, or maybe nothing at all. He may actually be aiming to the wrong side to try to correct for squirt and making it even worse.
 
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