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CaptainJR
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08-24-2004, 10:03 AM

If we don't soon get some people to argue the other way, I'll have to take that view.


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Talking 08-24-2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJR
I thought that title might get your attention!

I thought it might be fun to discuss and compare the two. I don't think a planed argument can be called flaming so let's go at it. I'll start. If you haven't played both, feel free to chime in. Then I'll really have someone to tell that they don't know what they are talking about!

I haven't played golf in a while but when I was playing regularly I was a 6 handicap. I'd call that a very good armature. My pool skill I'd put in about the same range, a very good armature. I've been involved in several discussions about this question and I'm not really convinced either way. Since there are mostly pool players here, I'll take the golf side. Golf is more difficult than Pool!

I'll start out with a few points.

1. The physical aspect of golf. Take a trip to the driving range on an 85 degree(F) day, hit two large buckets of balls in about two hours and tell me you don't need a shower. (I know the pros can do it, but it still shows the physical side. (I always liked to grunt and fart when I hit the golf ball, thus I didn't go to the driving range much.)

2. How many moving part of the body are there in a pool swing? In golf I believe there is only one joint that doesn't move. For a right hander that would be his left elbow.

There, that should get things started. Need ideas? The first opposing writer could go into depth about the fact that in pool, every shot must go into the hole.
Yea, yea, yea, but which one is more fun. Definitely pool, it’s not even close!
  
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Colin Colenso
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08-24-2004, 10:45 AM

I've also played a lot of both golf and pool. As a teen I used to regularly shoot in the 70's, but got into track and field rather than become try out as a pro golfer. After track and field I pursued pool seriously, but I had the advantage of having grown up with a snooker table inmy house so had already developed a quite natural game.

I want to make some points of differences, some of which will defend pool as a tougher sport.

Whatever the activity, to be the best is tough. The more money and more competitors the tougher it is. By that measure, golf is tougher to be a leading pro, because of the huge money incentivating thousands of pros to improve their game.

Pool requires a greater degree of accuracy in most aspects.

Pool requires more complex calculations of angles and spin and speed for different objects and collisions and requires selecting a shot from more possibilities, hence strategy is more complex a mental challenge.

It would be much easier to build a machine to play good golf than to build one that could play pool. eg. A machine can be built to drive a ball 400m within a few degrees of accuracy. In pool, getting a machine to line up accurately enough to pot a ball would be tough enough,let alone the machine trying to calculate the prefered positional shot and executing it. It is possible, but a more difficult problem to solve than for golf I believe.

Pool may be easier to pick up toa high level at a later age than golf because the swing is far less technical. It is rare to find a good golfer that didn't develop their swing at quite a young age.

In pool you need to consider your opponent's skills as well and determine your strategy accordingly. eg. If your opponent hates doubles, then the risk of leaving them a double chance is better than with a player who plays a lot of bank pool.

Golf may be more physically exerting, but that is not a key issue and most sports (running, swimming, football etc) are far more physically exerting than golf.

For me, pool offers more complexity and areas to learn and continually improve over golf. Golf to me is a little like darts. Once you have the basic swing skills, you can basically practice like a robot to hit straight and know the distances of your standard shots. Occaisionally you need to fade or draw a ball, or play tricky shot out of the rough, but if you get the basics right, 90% of the game is pretty much hitting straight.


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"The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin
  
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08-24-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Colenso
but if you get the basics right, 90% of the game is pretty much hitting straight.

But it is so so so hard to hit it straight.


Thanks for contributing Colin. Some very good points. After all, if you put the cue ball in one corner, the object ball dead center of the table and try to hit it straight into the opposite pocket! That shot is hard to hit straight also.


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  (#20)
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08-24-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJR
But it is so so so hard to hit it straight.


Thanks for contributing Colin. Some very good points. After all, if you put the cue ball in one corner, the object ball dead center of the table and try to hit it straight into the opposite pocket! That shot is hard to hit straight also.
Sure it's tough to hit straight with such long swing with so many parts moving. It'salso tough to throw darts straight into such small targets. Snooker again requires more accuracy than both these games (+or- 0.3mm or less on the object ball contact point on some snooker shots) but hitting with a cue from a set bridge is naturally conducive to higher accuracy.

Why weakness in golf was to always want to test the limits. Extreme slice, snap hooks, steep lobs, whatever it took to get over and around trees or into tight pin positions. But this kind of play is not good percentage golf. Percentage golf is boring compared to a game of pool where you can spin the ball all over the place, make cannons, find combinations etc. This aspect of pool is much more interesting than perfecting a straight game of golf.

That said, I'm looking forward to my next game of golf. I willbe trying to hit every shot 40 meters further than I should and play for big hooks and fades where ever the opportunity presents itself.


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"The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin
  
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Colin Colenso
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08-24-2004, 11:43 AM

I though of more reasons pool is better than golf.

In golf, you only get about 20 hits per hour. Almost half are putts

You can hit 150 per hour on the practice fairway, but it is pretty much the same shot over and over.

In pool you can get plenty of shots with almost endless variations. Great food for a creative mind.

And you can impress girls playing pool:d You rarely see attractive girls on a golf course


Quote:
"The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin
  
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08-24-2004, 12:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Colenso
And you can impress girls playing pool:d You rarely see attractive girls on a golf course

Colin me boy...you're playing at the wrong golf courses. We have some "beverage cart girls" that drive around the course all day selling drinks that will extend your eyeballs out about 2 feet before thwacking back into their sockets! Talk about some tanned, hard bodied, perfectly shaped, gorgeous faced, hotties in the shortest of shorts and skimpy tops....ouch!!!
Not to speak of the occasional tournament that's sponsored by one of the local dance clubs/strip bar where you have two or three girls on most of the tees messing with your head. And they're not afraid to bare it right then and there. I've yet to run into any situations like that in a pool room.
(Colin's now saying....hmmmmm....think I'll go dust off those clubs)
  
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08-24-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivermaker
Colin me boy...you're playing at the wrong golf courses. We have some "beverage cart girls" that drive around the course all day selling drinks that will extend your eyeballs out about 2 feet before thwacking back into their sockets! Talk about some tanned, hard bodied, perfectly shaped, gorgeous faced, hotties in the shortest of shorts and skimpy tops....ouch!!!
Not to speak of the occasional tournament that's sponsored by one of the local dance clubs/strip bar where you have two or three girls on most of the tees messing with your head. And they're not afraid to bare it right then and there. I've yet to run into any situations like that in a pool room.
(Colin's now saying....hmmmmm....think I'll go dust off those clubs)
Damn! I have been playing at the wrong golf courses all my life. We used to twist our necks trying to get a glimpse of any woman under the age of 40 that might happen across my old local course


Quote:
"The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin
  
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  (#24)
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08-24-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivermaker
Colin me boy...you're playing at the wrong golf courses. We have some "beverage cart girls" that drive around the course all day selling drinks that will extend your eyeballs out about 2 feet before thwacking back into their sockets! Talk about some tanned, hard bodied, perfectly shaped, gorgeous faced, hotties in the shortest of shorts and skimpy tops....ouch!!!
Not to speak of the occasional tournament that's sponsored by one of the local dance clubs/strip bar where you have two or three girls on most of the tees messing with your head. And they're not afraid to bare it right then and there. I've yet to run into any situations like that in a pool room.
(Colin's now saying....hmmmmm....think I'll go dust off those clubs)
Talking about the difficulties of golf. What about undulating brea.... i mean greens?


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08-24-2004, 12:19 PM

DM, sounds like you're not playing in the right pool room! I've definitely seen similar types of situations in a pool room (and I'm a girl)!!!! Doesn't your pool room have a Bud Light Night? Come to think of it, this pool room was kind of more of a bar......
  
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08-24-2004, 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by runmout
DM, sounds like you're not playing in the right pool room! I've definitely seen similar types of situations in a pool room (and I'm a girl)!!!! Doesn't your pool room have a Bud Light Night? Come to think of it, this pool room was kind of more of a bar......

Maybe I'm not....next time please take pictures. I'll send one of those disposable digital Kodaks if needed!
  
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08-24-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Colenso
It would be much easier to build a machine to play good golf than to build one that could play pool. eg. A machine can be built to drive a ball 400m within a few degrees of accuracy. In pool, getting a machine to line up accurately enough to pot a ball would be tough enough,let alone the machine trying to calculate the prefered positional shot and executing it. It is possible, but a more difficult problem to solve than for golf I believe.
I don't agree about the difficulty regarding stroking machines. There are more degrees of freedom on the golf stroke compared to the pool stroke. And the precision might just be very similar ... but this is lust to stroke a ball with success (pocket an object ball or hit the proper area in the fairway), not actually playing the game.

Regarding a machine to play the game of golf vs pool, the golf machine would have to solve course management problems which might end up being similar in complexity to solving positional play aspects of pool.

My golf play is worse than my pool play, but I regularly get the opportunity to hit golf balls off a GolfTech swing analyser with a ??? Launch Monitor watching. You don't have to miss by much to mess up a golf shot ...

Just my thoughts ...

Dave
  
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08-24-2004, 02:26 PM

I've actually played quite a bit of golf, and at first, I shared the same opinion as you do, but after hittings thousands of balls, playing almost daily for some period of time, I've come to the following conclusion. Golf is infinitely more difficult *physically*. However, I think there are more shot possibilities on a pool table. To play good golf, you really have to master a physical skill, which is why only 2%, or so, of the golfers out there can break 100. If you aren't a very good golfer, it means you struggle to hit the ball. On the other hand, there is pool. Most players, after playing for any length of time, can pocket balls fairly well. However, pocketing balls isn't enough to be all that good of a player. So, in contrast to golf, if you aren't a very good pool player, chances are it isn't because of a physical limitation. It is probably because you make mistakes in judgement, pattern selection, position, etc.

Think of this, if you could absolutely *master* 15 shots in golf, and you could hit the ball straight 90% of the time (which not even the pros do, but I'm speaking hypothetically here), you would be a HELL of a player. Probably PGA tour quality. However, try being a good shotmaker on a pool table with only 15 shots in your arsenal, and you'll go broke if you try to take your game out on the road.

So, to sum up my opinion here, I think if you take just the two games, not including a persons mechanics or anything else, just the games themselves, I think pool is the more difficult of the two. I don't know if "difficult" is the right word, but I do think that pool is the more "involved" of the two.
  
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08-24-2004, 02:38 PM

A 3-yr old kid here shot a hole-in-one with his Snoopy club.
It's in the Guiness.
How many 3-yr olds can make a spot shot?
Nuff said. lol


  
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08-24-2004, 02:42 PM

[QUOTE=Jimmy M.]

So, to sum up my opinion here

[QUOTE]
And your opinion is worth......................?LOL
  
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