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08-04-2019, 10:08 AM

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Alan
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08-04-2019, 10:19 AM

Agreed, every scenario is different. One thing they have in common is the active threat. There are actions and visuals to consider. When you are out in public, there are concealed carrying individuals. I know 5 guys/gals that carry religiously. You'd never suspect that 4 of them are armed and the 5th is a woman that I can almost promise you no one would suspect of packing. All of them are capable of discerning whether there's a threat and who it is. They've been carrying for years and have yet to shoot an innocent person or even pull their gun. I don't carry, mostly because there are too many places that don't allow it and I don't want to get in trouble. Unfortunately, bad guys don't mind breaking the rules and bringing guns where they are forbidden. I'm starting to fell luck a sucker and easy target.


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Sorry Alan but no two scenarios are exactly the same. Motivations may or may not be similar but that doesn't mean you can create a sure as shit visual profile of an active shooter.
  
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08-04-2019, 10:23 AM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
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Jason
That's some deep shit right there


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Bamadog

First off ... nothing will stop ass killings entirely.
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08-04-2019, 10:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Agreed, every scenario is different. One thing they have in common is the active threat. There are actions and visuals to consider. When you are out in public, there are concealed carrying individuals. I know 5 guys/gals that carry religiously. You'd never suspect that 4 of them are armed and the 5th is a woman that I can almost promise you no one would suspect of packing. All of them are capable of discerning whether there's a threat and who it is. They've been carrying for years and have yet to shoot an innocent person or even pull their gun. I don't carry, mostly because there are too many places that don't allow it and I don't want to get in trouble. Unfortunately, bad guys don't mind breaking the rules and bringing guns where they are forbidden. I'm starting to fell luck a sucker and easy target.
I really don't think we are far apart on this. And btw...I carry and so does my spouse. One point that is over emphasized in permit training is being absolutely sure before you expose your weapon and if you pull it, your intent is to use it so just as in my deer hunting comparison, SURE MEANS SURE


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First off ... nothing will stop ass killings entirely.
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  (#65)
VonRhett
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08-04-2019, 10:36 AM

The premise that's being debated is a hypothetical scenario that's NEVER happened.

It's like debating the return of dinosaurs.

Never has an armed citizen - whether vet or not - shot an innocent while protecting unarmed citizens from a mad man shooting folks at random.

The notion that the removal of GFZ will result in hundreds of people drawing a concealed weapon in a mall during the next shooting is just preposterous.

Anyone who claims you can't ID the shooter has NO knowledge of urban warfare or even CQB. In that case, don't carry in public.

And Asia is correct - everyone one of these punkass shooters will drop their weapon and run for mommy the moment people shoot back. The ONLY shooters who didn't were the muzzies in San Bernadino.

Proof - after shooting unarmed innocents for 20 minutes, the EP shooter immediately dropped his weapon the SECOND cops ID him and pointed weapons back. Gun down, arms up. They didn't even fire a round (which is another issue)

GUARAN-FOOKIN-TEE you he would have done the same had just ONE person shot back in the Walmart.

There is NO FORMAL TRAINING in the US - whether Military, FLETC, or local PD, that trains to shoot without 100% certainty of target.

I realize a small % of folks in a mall would have had good training, BUT those that did receive it are the ones MOST LIKELY to actually shoot back.

Some accountant that got his CCW and goes to the range once a month simply will not fire back when downrange from a shooter.

-von


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Snooker Theory
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08-04-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonRhett View Post
The premise that's being debated is a hypothetical scenario that's NEVER happened.

It's like debating the return of dinosaurs.

Never has an armed citizen - whether vet or not - shot an innocent while protecting unarmed citizens from a mad man shooting folks at random.

The notion that the removal of GFZ will result in hundreds of people drawing a concealed weapon in a mall during the next shooting is just preposterous.

Anyone who claims you can't ID the shooter has NO knowledge of urban warfare or even CQB. In that case, don't carry in public.

And Asia is correct - everyone one of these punkass shooters will drop their weapon and run for mommy the moment people shoot back. The ONLY shooters who didn't were the muzzies in San Bernadino.

Proof - after shooting unarmed innocents for 20 minutes, the EP shooter immediately dropped his weapon the SECOND cops ID him and pointed weapons back. Gun down, arms up. They didn't even fire a round (which is another issue)

GUARAN-FOOKIN-TEE you he would have done the same had just ONE person shot back in the Walmart.

There is NO FORMAL TRAINING in the US - whether Military, FLETC, or local PD, that trains to shoot without 100% certainty of target.

I realize a small % of folks in a mall would have had good training, BUT those that did receive it are the ones MOST LIKELY to actually shoot back.

Some accountant that got his CCW and goes to the range once a month simply will not fire back when downrange from a shooter.

-von
Although there has been at least one case of someone trying to stop a gunman using their gun, and police thinking they were the intial shooter and shot them instead of the suspect. Believe its happened more than once actually, but I could be mistaken


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  (#67)
duckie
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08-04-2019, 12:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonRhett View Post
The premise that's being debated is a hypothetical scenario that's NEVER happened.

It's like debating the return of dinosaurs.

Never has an armed citizen - whether vet or not - shot an innocent while protecting unarmed citizens from a mad man shooting folks at random.

The notion that the removal of GFZ will result in hundreds of people drawing a concealed weapon in a mall during the next shooting is just preposterous.

Anyone who claims you can't ID the shooter has NO knowledge of urban warfare or even CQB. In that case, don't carry in public.

And Asia is correct - everyone one of these punkass shooters will drop their weapon and run for mommy the moment people shoot back. The ONLY shooters who didn't were the muzzies in San Bernadino.

Proof - after shooting unarmed innocents for 20 minutes, the EP shooter immediately dropped his weapon the SECOND cops ID him and pointed weapons back. Gun down, arms up. They didn't even fire a round (which is another issue)

GUARAN-FOOKIN-TEE you he would have done the same had just ONE person shot back in the Walmart.

There is NO FORMAL TRAINING in the US - whether Military, FLETC, or local PD, that trains to shoot without 100% certainty of target.

I realize a small % of folks in a mall would have had good training, BUT those that did receive it are the ones MOST LIKELY to actually shoot back.

Some accountant that got his CCW and goes to the range once a month simply will not fire back when downrange from a shooter.

-von
You really should do some research.....cause you are wrong.....
  
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JC
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08-04-2019, 02:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Snooker Theory View Post
Although there has been at least one case of someone trying to stop a gunman using their gun, and police thinking they were the intial shooter and shot them instead of the suspect. Believe its happened more than once actually, but I could be mistaken
If you pull out your gun and start shooting back at a mass murderer and that causes him to stop shooting people and flee and you are subsequently shot by police by mistake then your life was not wasted. When you pulled out your weapon and started firing you knew the risks including being mistaken for the bad guy and being shot by the bad guy.

If you were carrying and didn't respond due to fear of the police shooting you then you probably aren't carrying so it's a moot point. You're just a yeahbutter inventing scenarios to justify your cowardice and ignorance.


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08-04-2019, 04:40 PM

It is amazing those that donít get the concept of self defense. That a person has a right to self defense with a firearm anywhere and not just in their home.

Turning and running just means one can be shot in the back. You never take your eyes off those threatening you. Once you turn, you are at their mercy.

No one knows how many of those killed in these mass shouting wanted to carry a firearm but didnít because they were law bidding citizens or where they live just donít issue carry permits.

The point is about protecting yourself anywhere with a firearm. And there is proof that a armed citizens life was not taken because that armed citizen shot the bad guy.

The fact so many ignore this proves they just donít want to hear facts. And Iím putting this quite nicely.......

Itís about a individuals right for self defense with a firearm anywhere and anytime.......right for self defense........
  
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08-04-2019, 04:54 PM

https://www.brighteon.com/6ce05594-5...vkAqOXZrHf0mq4


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRtE...EZhCDCEMZHUjRg
  
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VonRhett
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08-04-2019, 07:37 PM

Uh, OK - which part??

Can you cite where an armed citizen shot back at a "mass shooter" and hit citizens??

Can you cite where a highly-trained person (Military, FLE, etc) shot an armed citizen who is attempting to return fire at another shooter??

Or are you under the impression that the common joe who shoots static targets at the safe cocoon of the range well suddenly grow a pair, over come his raging adrenaline, ignore his flight or fight instincts, and voluntarily stand downrange from an active shooter and return fire?

And then, after doing that, are you suggesting that he may (or has) been shot when the LEOs arrive??

Total BS.

Yes, LEO shoot citizens while brandishing guns, even if they weren't the perp. Well aware of this. But never once has this occurred during a mass shooting.

This is not about LEOs accidentally shooting innocents. It's about innocents shooting back at a mass murderer in a GFZ --- which is where almost all of them take place.

-von

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Last edited by VonRhett; 08-04-2019 at 07:40 PM.
  
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08-04-2019, 07:54 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CSp6hactII



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08-05-2019, 04:24 AM

https://www.sgtreport.com/2019/08/bo...s-for-enginee/


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08-05-2019, 11:30 AM

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we are seemingly wasting our time with the truth.


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08-07-2019, 06:05 AM

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Originally Posted by asiasdad View Post
we are seemingly wasting our time with the truth.
I guess so.....


https://youtu.be/AXLfbKUYD88


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