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bradsh98
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09-06-2019, 01:45 PM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
They still make T-rail rubber....snooker and 3-tables....
...so maybe pool rubber also?

Plus the rubber might still be good....Iíve played on 60 year old Monarch rails.
....they need hitting to liven them up if theyíve been unused for some time.

Perhaps the current rubber is good. It's not likely to be the original rubber (which would be closer to 100 years old). But, to be modified to current specs (as was the request in the initial post of the OP), the pockets will need to be adjusted, which will require new rubber. To change the rubber, I would bet that the sub-rails will still require modification, even if it has been performed in the past.

I think you are confused on styles of rails and cushion rubber.. "T-rail" refers to the design of the rail. It has nothing to do with the sub-rail, or what cushion is mounted to it. Carom rubber is different from snooker rubber, which is also different from pool rubber. But, it has nothing to do with the design of the rail. However, there are different styles of pool rubber, which ARE dependent on the design of the rail.

Common pool cushion profiles are: K55, K66, U23


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09-06-2019, 01:55 PM

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Originally Posted by JessEm View Post
I'm looking at this table not only as a table I can use, but also as an investment.

I think the realistic value fully restored is $5000-$6000?

I'm very concerned about what's going on with the apron (board under the top rail around outer edge). As mentioned, it doesn't match or look original. It looks like the wrong species, and I believe the 3rd picture shows knots... Torn on whether to drive 1.5 hours each way, to find out it's some kind of hack job...
In my honest opinion, the table certainly has had a bit of hackwork, in its history. Just how much remains to be seen.

In regards to fully restored value, I think $5000 is a bit high. I believe that it could take years to ever have an offer that high. As with most things, it would take quite a bit of work to find the right buyer, for the right price. To get that table refinished to the point that it could be worth $5000, I believe it would require a significant investment in time, and quite a fair financial investment.

You would have to figure on new:
-cloth
-cushions
-extensive rail work
-replacement rail aprons
-recovered pockets

Plus, all of the work to fill/patch the damaged wood and the Brunswick logo, and then the time and money spent on advertising.

After the investment, you would have a very beautiful table, and you may never even consider the resale value.


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09-06-2019, 03:54 PM

for your reading pleasure:

https://brunswick.pastperfectonline....9-740921967806


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09-06-2019, 05:16 PM

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Originally Posted by JessEm View Post
I'm looking at this table not only as a table I can use, but also as an investment.
I would buy only if you truly love it, and would plan to keep it a long time, ...Ö.not for "investment"
  
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09-06-2019, 10:02 PM

Quote:
Their asking price is $1500. It's already taken apart, with pictures mapping how it goes back together. The slate is on a pallet (3 pieces), and the base and table is one piece.
My wife bought a ca 1926 9' BBC "Royal" at auction last year and i'm still working up to restoring it (she knew what she was doing - it forces me to do work on the house delayed for past 20 yrs, such as pouring piers, setting steel W8 ("I beams") and lally columns in multiple places in the cellar so far. Then there's the actual remodeling upstairs still to be done )

Relating to your table Q's: She paid $400. When i go there & took the table apart, a mover onsite took pity & "volunteered" 2 muscle bound kids to carry the slates downstairs from the second floor pool room and put them on my truck to help "those poor old folks ". I tipped them a $50 each. So total cost was $500 + some gas.. Buddy helped me unload in shop. (He might not still be my buddy, though, not sure).

Some things about your table look better, some maybe worse (skirts). Wife's has one slate that will need a couple significant repairs that don't affect playing field, but have to be done well to hold T-rails on.

After removing the center & cross pieces, your table frame should come apart into 2 each end sections consisting of 2 legs and stretcher connecting them; and then just 2 long thick heavy dimension rails. Look on the inside faces for the pocket bolts.

My wife's table was originally ball return, but has been "converted" to drop pockets in the past. I'd like to put it back to ball return, but the drop pockets are quicker, and to some extent may look nicer than the original ball return style. Depends how well done they are.

Your rail caps are Brazilian rosewood, but that might not matter depending how you decide to reduce the pockets and re-cut the rail angle for modern rubber. Sometimes the pocket irons have split them as well so might be better to just make new rails and subrails if you have the facility & some really hard wood for caps, like pau fero, bocote, or such. Some tables of that style were actually quartersawn white oak; and relatively dense mahogany or African mahogany would work. So would black walnut if dense boards are selected. Skirts on yours should be mahogany. The ones in the picture look like 1 x 4's from Lowe's. They don't do anything, so might be perfectly adequate if you throw a faux finish on.

I'm curious about the "knobs" that sort of seem to be sticking out from under the rails in some of your photos - is it a convertible table?

Here's another link to a catalog with more extensive pages on your table and the type of build. Click on any of the pages. 1921 catalog

https://brunswick.pastperfectonline....9-227526524695

1923
https://brunswick.pastperfectonline....6-138254745490

smt

Last edited by Ssonerai; 09-06-2019 at 10:11 PM.
  
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Table - 09-07-2019, 01:42 AM

These are indeed sweet tables, I might put mine up on the market sometime in the future.. sure hard to let something so sweet go tho.
They just donít build em like they used too...

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Last edited by ROB.M; 09-07-2019 at 01:46 AM.
  
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JessEm
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09-07-2019, 06:52 AM

Thanks everyone for all input on this!

I LOVE these older tables. There's no comparison to their beauty, and like everything else, they don't build'em like they used to!

I was planning to make the drive this afternoon to have a better look, and probably buy. However, the seller isn't willing to budge on price, which we've established is a little high, so, for the time being, I'm holding off on this table. Their ad is still new so I'll give it a little time. If they don't find a buyer, eventually they may be willing to negotiate.

If this particular table doesn't pan out, I'm armed with some excellent info here going forward. We'll see what happens. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.


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09-07-2019, 07:00 AM

Cool old table but you are probably saving yourself a ton of $$ in an overhaul. Unless you can do all(or at least a lot) of the work yourself you're lookin' at a ton of time & cash. Here's one re-done by Derrick and crew in Kansas: https://www.billiardrestoration.com/...les/regina.htm
  
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09-07-2019, 07:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Cool old table but you are probably saving yourself a ton of $$ in an overhaul. Unless you can do all(or at least a lot) of the work yourself you're lookin' at a ton of time & cash. Here's one re-done by Derrick and crew in Kansas: https://www.billiardrestoration.com/...les/regina.htm
Yes! I feel like people here have saved me hundreds of $$. At least $500, maybe more. I love these tables and I'm willing to put in the money and effort, but my rational side is saying don't go upside down.

Some of the professional restorations out there look phenomenal. I'm capable of amazing restoration work myself if I don't say. However, as far as set-up and dialing in functionality go, I'd leave that to a table mechanic with experience on these tables.


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09-07-2019, 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JessEm View Post
Their asking price is $1500. It's already taken apart, with pictures mapping how it goes back together. The slate is on a pallet (3 pieces), and the base and table is one piece. They have machinery to load on a trailer.

"The pool table is 9’ long, the slate is 1” thick with a backer board also 1 “ thick. The slate is in very good condition."

Given this tables value in restored condition, I'm somewhat surprised by the pricing here. I was expecting a little more. But then, as usual, I'm sure I'm underestimating the work involved.
If you've seen this table apart then you've seen the slates. That would be my first concern with a T-Rail. Many T-Rail slates were broken. Other than that it looks like a decent deal @1500.

I believe K55 was the profile used back then but there's some chance someone modified the rails in the last 100 years. Check for a label on the cushions, then check the angle. If they match you're good to go. I wouldn't change the profile.

My preference is the T-Rail design but I don't play pool much anymore. When this table was made proper angles were considered. Wanting to convert this table to comply with "modern standards" IMO is not what I would want to do. I'd want my table to comply with at least the 5 system. which most modern pool tables do not. Diamond I believe made a move to adjust their tables to comply. 3 Rail kick on most Modern Tables come in 1/2-1 diamond short even on a well maintained clean cloth and new or like new clean balls.

If you're a tournament or league player then I guess modern specs would be the way to go, so there's not so much difference with your table and a Valley or Gold Crown or .......

The rail skirts are the only thing that seems strange here but you're good at refinishing wood.

https://www.billiardrestoration.com/...les/regina.htm

Last edited by 3kushn; 09-07-2019 at 02:34 PM.
  
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09-09-2019, 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3kushn View Post

I believe K55 was the profile used back then but there's some chance someone modified the rails in the last 100 years. Check for a label on the cushions, then check the angle. If they match you're good to go. I wouldn't change the profile.
Brunswick used Monarch Superspeed cushions, until the late 70's. The profile may have been referred to as K55, though it is NOT the same as a modern-day K55 profile cushion. ANY Brunswick table produced prior to about 1978 will require updates to the rails, to accommodate a modern-day K55 cushion.


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09-09-2019, 08:15 AM

When I purchased my first one, it was a little rough. I paid $450 for it & delivery. 2 years later & $7000 dollars, it was a beauty. The project was a labor of LOVE.... & the Table was perfect.

The problem was that you can't practice on an Antique & take the info to town & play on a Diamond or Gold Crown. I'm talking Rail play...

When I sold it, I got $9500 dollars for it, on eBay.




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