Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page fixed Vision Center issue -- I use both eyes INDEPENDENTLY !
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#16)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,749
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
10-14-2019, 04:18 AM

There are different definitions for eye dominance. The one I'm referring to is the physically dominant eye that has more nerves that go straight back to the brain as opposed to the recessive eye that has more nerves that criss cross to the brain. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, therefore the dominant eye transmits the information it sees to the brain first.

That doesn't mean that the dominant eye is the better visual eye. It just means that it captures the information first.

Regardless of where you place your cue stick, it will always tend to drift towards your dominant eye because it grabs the information first. If you try to force it away, you will get tired sooner than normal during a match and there will come a time when you don't even realize it's drifted back.Then you're in trouble because you haven't adapted your aim.

Unless you have a serious pathology which prevents you from seeing with your dominant eye, you should consider not fighting it, but instead adapting to it and making whatever aiming adjustments you need to make. It's not as drastic as you may think and most players do it naturally. I've been doing it for years and have had no problem making necessary aiming adjustments. I wouldn't even call it an aiming adjustment. It's more like knowing my tendencies on certain shots. And I have a severely dominant eye.

Last edited by FranCrimi; 10-14-2019 at 04:21 AM.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#17)
dr_dave
Instructional Author
dr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond repute
 
dr_dave's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 10,043
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
   
10-14-2019, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Regardless of where you place your cue stick, it will always tend to drift towards your dominant eye because it grabs the information first. If you try to force it away, you will get tired sooner than normal during a match and there will come a time when you don't even realize it's drifted back.Then you're in trouble because you haven't adapted your aim.
If one allows their visual alignment to shift, this is obviously a problem. The key is to not let this happen. The best way to prevent this is to have a low head position, ideally with the chin touching or just above the cue (like pretty much every snooker player, and like most top modern-era pool players). Then it is easy to guarantee your head is always in the right place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Unless you have a serious pathology which prevents you from seeing with your dominant eye, you should consider not fighting it, but instead adapting to it and making whatever aiming adjustments you need to make. It's not as drastic as you may think and most players do it naturally. I've been doing it for years and have had no problem making necessary aiming adjustments. I wouldn't even call it an aiming adjustment. It's more like knowing my tendencies on certain shots. And I have a severely dominant eye.
I think it is best to totally ignore what eye might be dominant or not (e.g., based on the standard eye-dominance tests). What is important in pool is seeing shots right by using the same (and best) visual alignment on every shot. If one does, one will not need to make "adjustment" decisions or judgments ... one can instead trust the shot picture and natural aim.

I am right-eye dominant, and I used to position my cue closer to my right eye, as you suggest might be natural. This caused me to see every shot wrong, and I missed often ... often assuming my stroke was the problem. After I found that my vision center position is with my cue centered between my eyes, and after I lowered my stance to accurately and consistently place my head in my vision-center position, my play immediately got better, more consistent, and more fun.

Regards,
Dave

Last edited by dr_dave; 10-14-2019 at 10:42 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,749
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
10-14-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
If one allows their visual alignment to shift, this is obviously a problem. The key is to not let this happen. The best way to prevent this is to have a low head position, ideally with the chin touching or just above the cue (like pretty much every snooker player, and like most top modern-era pool players). Then it is easy to guarantee your head is always in the right place.

I think it is best to totally ignore what eye might be dominant or not (e.g., based on the standard eye-dominance tests). What is important in pool is seeing shots right by using the same (and best) visual alignment on every shot. If one does, one will not need to make "adjustment" decisions or judgments ... one can instead trust the shot picture and natural aim.

I am right-eye dominant, and I used to position my cue closer to my right eye, as you suggest might be natural. This caused me to see every shot wrong, and I missed often ... often assuming my stroke was the problem. After I found that my vision center position is with my cue centered between my eyes, and after I lowered my stance to accurately and consistently place my head in my vision-center position, my play immediately got better, more consistent, and more fun.

Regards,
Dave
That's too bad that you weren't able to make the adjustments with the cue under your dominant eye. You do wear glasses, and I don't know what your visual situation is. Perhaps it's not something you can do. But it is something many other players can do.

When you fight your anatomy, you will wear yourself out sooner. Also, consciously placing your head to make sure your cue isn't drifting under your dominant eye is contrary to playing in the zone. Any time you have to stop and remind yourself of something, you are not playing in the zone.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
dr_dave
Instructional Author
dr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond repute
 
dr_dave's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 10,043
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
   
10-14-2019, 03:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
If one allows their visual alignment to shift, this is obviously a problem. The key is to not let this happen. The best way to prevent this is to have a low head position, ideally with the chin touching or just above the cue (like pretty much every snooker player, and like most top modern-era pool players). Then it is easy to guarantee your head is always in the right place.

I think it is best to totally ignore what eye might be dominant or not (e.g., based on the standard eye-dominance tests). What is important in pool is seeing shots right by using the same (and best) visual alignment on every shot. If one does, one will not need to make "adjustment" decisions or judgments ... one can instead trust the shot picture and natural aim.

I am right-eye dominant, and I used to position my cue closer to my right eye, as you suggest might be natural. This caused me to see every shot wrong, and I missed often ... often assuming my stroke was the problem. After I found that my vision center position is with my cue centered between my eyes, and after I lowered my stance to accurately and consistently place my head in my vision-center position, my play immediately got better, more consistent, and more fun.
That's too bad that you weren't able to make the adjustments with the cue under your dominant eye.
I actually never had my cue under my dominant eye. It was between my nose and dominant eye. Honestly, I am glad I didn't try to learn to adjust my aim to compensate for this non-ideal alignment. I prefer that my head be in the right place so my eyes and brain see every shot properly. Then no adjustments are required. When I first changed to my new head position, it wasn't comfortable, but I later made changes to my stance to allow me to get my head in the right place accurately and consistently with comfort. For those interested, I describe this in the later part of the following video:

NV J.21 – How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
When you fight your anatomy, you will wear yourself out sooner.
Good point. That's why some (if not most) people might need to make changes in their stance if they want to get their head in a better place "naturally," accurately, and consistently. I certainly needed to do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Also, consciously placing your head to make sure your cue isn't drifting under your dominant eye is contrary to playing in the zone. Any time you have to stop and remind yourself of something, you are not playing in the zone.
I have made many changes in my stance, stroke, and head position over the years. And none of these changes felt natural at first. That's why changes require practice and repetition ... to create a new "natural." Although, I don't mind consciously doing some things (like touch my chin to the cue to verify perfect alignment) if those things help me shoot better and promote confidence. Eventually, with enough practice and repetition, these conscious things will happen automatically (i.e., become natural or subconscious).

Regards,
Dave

Last edited by dr_dave; 10-14-2019 at 03:18 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,749
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
10-14-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
I actually never had my cue under my dominant eye. It was between my nose and dominant eye. Honestly, I am glad I didn't try to learn to adjust my aim to compensate for this non-ideal alignment. I prefer that my head be in the right place so my eyes and brain see every shot properly. Then no adjustments are required. When I first changed to my new head position, it wasn't comfortable, but I later made changes to my stance to allow me to get my head in the right place accurately and consistently with comfort. For those interested, I describe this in the later part of the following video:

NV J.21 – How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance

Good point. That's why some (if not most) people might need to make changes in their stance if they want to get their head in a better place "naturally," accurately, and consistently. I certainly needed to do this.

I have made many changes in my stance, stroke, and head position over the years. And none of these changes felt natural at first. That's why changes require practice and repetition ... to create a new "natural." Although, I don't mind consciously doing some things (like touch my chin to the cue to verify perfect alignment) if those things help me shoot better and promote confidence. Eventually, with enough practice and repetition, these conscious things will happen automatically (i.e., become natural or subconscious).

Regards,
Dave
Please don't twist my words, Dave. I don't twist yours. You're an intelligent guy. There's no need for that. You don't have to agree with me but don't try to turn my words against me. That's low class.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
dr_dave
Instructional Author
dr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond repute
 
dr_dave's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 10,043
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
   
10-15-2019, 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Please don't twist my words, Dave. I don't twist yours. You're an intelligent guy. There's no need for that. You don't have to agree with me but don't try to turn my words against me. That's low class.
Fran,

I just re-read all of the posts above, and I honestly can't figure out what words you think I twisted or tried to turn against you. We obviously have very different opinions on this issue, and I think we both expressed ourselves well and politely.

Feel free to PM me if you want to explain how I offended you. Regardless, thank you for the interesting discussion.

Catch you later,
Dave
  
Reply With Quote
chicken style!
Old
  (#22)
ShootingArts
Smorg is giving the 7!
ShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond repute
 
ShootingArts's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,841
vCash: 2900
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South of the Border
   
chicken style! - 10-26-2019, 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gogg View Post
Mark Shelby the snooker player does something very similar as he starts to warmup stroke, swaying his head ever so slightly back and forth ( more of a lateral shift really) before he gets still and fires...
I have always thought to myself that he was checking the line up with both eyes.

Years ago before aiming threads were banished to the seventh hell I told the story of chicken style aiming. Years later somebody thanked me for that post, said they still used it.

I was seriously into outdoor photography which inevitably means you end up taking pictures of birds, lots of birds. They have to be doing something interesting for the best pictures so damnit, by default I became a bird watcher, of those with wings. I noticed the wading birds with long necks and long pointed beaks they stabbed prey with, shifted their heads to right and left a few times or more before striking. The tougher the shot like striking a foot underwater, the more they studied it with this head movement. As you mention, this isn't turning the head, it is shifting the whole head side to side.

Feeling silly on a pool table one day I tried the head shift. Dang, on shots that needed a very precise cut it did seem to help! I humorously labeled it chicken style aiming or the chicken theory of aiming and posted about it in one of the fiery threads about the one true way God intended people to aim.

I forget about it for ages but if I thought about it with money on the line I would use the sway to try to make a very tough cut. It seems to give you a little better 3D view of a ball when you see that tiny bit more of it. You know a little bit more precisely where it is at.

Hu
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.