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08-14-2009, 06:18 PM

previous install the mech left over an 1/8 inch of plaster on the outside edge of slate and there were many staples and tacks left from previous installs as well. If it wasn't for the chips in the slate this table could have easily been set up with nothing in the seams as it leveled out near perfect and it was 4 piece. Very unusual table and very old. Scruffy do you know the model?
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08-14-2009, 08:33 PM

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Originally Posted by OTLB View Post
previous install the mech left over an 1/8 inch of plaster on the outside edge of slate and there were many staples and tacks left from previous installs as well. If it wasn't for the chips in the slate this table could have easily been set up with nothing in the seams as it leveled out near perfect and it was 4 piece. Very unusual table and very old. Scruffy do you know the model?
Can't use tack strips on that one
  
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08-15-2009, 03:41 AM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
Can't use tack strips on that one
See now Glen you bring up a great point here, thank you. I won't play games and ask you what it is, I will just explain. This table is well over 100 years old. It has been covered an est 12-14 times and has at least that many more times before you would even have to think about using glue as a solution to putting the cloth on because the slate liners were destroyed. Granted they are popular framed but my point is this: unless a table is in a commercial setting its very hard for the backer boards to be destroyed unless someone has a mission to pepper them with more staples than needed. There are guys who use more than what I think is required in the pockets but we won't talk about them and thats the first place the liners fail.


Scruffy can verify my estimate here that I would say well over 90 percent of tables that are 100 years old are still VERY usable in respect to the slate backer boards. If fact if some dope doesn't detach the boards from the back of the slate when moving them I would think the number would be well over 95%.


An average home table is the same way, maybe it might get recovered once every 10 years( I doubt it) so even it it has MDF it is probably good for 70 years min. By that time they would have banned the use of glue in homes and every where else and gone with tac strips completely. In fact, in your 26 years have you ever shown one of your customers a MSDS sheet for your glue? In fact using a product like that in the home could be a legitimate cause for a lawsuit if you don't disclose the MSDS sheet as part of your safety training. In fact training people to use glue and not informing them is also an issue.. Remember Asbestos? If you start handing out an MSDS sheet before you start your project you will start to have problems. I know it won't matter to the pool players and since you do mostly Diamond tables and GC's I know those guys don't mind either. BUT? you are not going to homes with the average mom(perhaps pregnant) or with small child, or with extended family.etc. Now if your going to tell me that you don't care if the woman is pregnant or that your not concerned if Grandma might passout from the smell etc I just wouldn't know what to think of you.



In conclusion: Glue has a place for guys who want to use it. Since its mostly on Diamonds, GC's and bar boxes its ok. But my tac strips can go on Diamond pros, and GC's which are the majority of commercial tables. You don't have to spend money on glue every time you do the table over, tac strips one time and your done, takes 5 minutes. Ask Donny if he uses glue it on all his installs????? for various reasons I will bet he doesn't and I won't get into them.

AND I don't care if anyone else ever uses tac strips, I am happy to say I am the only guy in the country who does! or can apparently.

45 guys went to the seminar, I would like to see pics of their glue jobs. BY now they should have been doing them all over the place. Where are all the pics???? If the method is so good, and works on any table there should be a thread for them. I will start one.





tac strip rails, tac strip backer boards that are attached to bare slate like on a snooker table etc. This solves the mfg problem of adding costs and labor with backet boards. YES I can forsee them or something just like them eliminating staples, glue and tacs.

PS:

If I wanted to use tac strips on antique tables I could, its easy and anyone can figure that out. What would be easier? to replace all the backer boards or make a relief on the inside of a rail. Thank you for another project on my todo list Glen. In fact working on that table I created 3 new mech tools.

Either I have the largest collection of specialized mech tools in the world or no one wants to share anything in this forum. IMO, any true mech finds ways to do things better like Glen has with glue etc. So far there are guys in this forum who say what they feel. They are mostly my very good friends and in no special order: Magnetardo, LCCS, Dartman, RKC, Scruffy and perhaps a few more.

If I was running a mfg plant again and had the top mechs in my conference room it would go like this:

10 guys in the room, 5-6 speak and contribute. The rest--Fired!

I applaud Glen in particular for his efforts, he shares becasue he knows what works. I share what works and doesn't. I am not afraid of criticism.

All I have to say to you guys is thanks for speaking your mind. Remember, we don't have to get along(although its nice sometimes), its ok to argue, if you get mad when you argue that usually means your loosing. But my real point is I respect you guys for saying what you feel. Perhaps not for what your saying but you get my point (I hope).

sorry for any typos

and while I am at it: those are the same guys(my good friends) who I have offended. I am sorry for that and to you.

Sincerely, OTLB

ps; I must be doing something right my points are climbing and are at almost 600,000

Last edited by OTLB; 08-15-2009 at 05:53 AM.
  
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08-15-2009, 06:13 AM

Just kidding nice to see the tack strip made to the hack section...lol .... @ 600,000 you need another can of ketchup to play with the big dogs.

Anyways just haveing fun off to work and hang off 10-20+ phone poles again wish i didnt have to pull my 32' ladder off my truck again.

Craig
  
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08-15-2009, 06:32 AM

Not that it matters John, but you have a ways to go to catch 1,494,969 points

Glen
  
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08-15-2009, 07:38 AM

well I haven't been trying to get points but if I was I bet I could get past that in a week
  
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08-15-2009, 09:08 AM

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well I haven't been trying to get points but if I was I bet I could get past that in a week

I'll give you some............2,381,110
  
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08-15-2009, 09:12 AM

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I'll give you some............2,381,110
There you go John, pass me in a week buddy, still not going to get tack strips on the market

Glen
  
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08-15-2009, 10:56 AM

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08-15-2009, 11:02 AM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
There you go John, pass me in a week buddy, still not going to get tack strips on the market

Glen
Maybe not but who gives a dam if it does, I'm siding with Eddie on this one. Very innovative and unique solution. Maybe not applicable in all tables but it has alot of strengths....I know you like the smell of glue in the mourning Glen but you know its a good idea when you saw it. I also argee with OTLB about the MSDS, not trying to knock your action but man you never know with people. Go do some rich dudes diamond and his little girl gets sick and get busted by a bunch of lawyers, it's extreme but remember moore's law right??

I'm currently taking my time with my table here's my hack job on one of the completed rails...shimmed to 4 1/4 at mouth and 3 3/4 at the throat. Can't wait to get it all done...oh and Glen I wanted to say thanks I saw your picture of hiding the staples and cuts on the pocket...just a nice addition to the work.

I am no where near to your guys skills, but with a couple basic simple tools, some oilfield engineering, a little time and patience anyone can do a good job on a table. I wish I just had extended rails, but the shims will play just fine, but brother it takes alot of paitence making that profile perfect. Much respect to you guys...I like to think I'm an exception to the rule but working on a table much less tightening pockets should be left to a pro. Not that anyone cant do it...its just I don't think 99% of people got the patience to do it correctly. Kinda like building cues...either do it right period or after your done rushing throw it in the fire.

I'm going to take better and more pics as I go along and post them so you guys can see.

Best Wishes,
Grey Ghost

P.S. Either Glen "RKC" or John "OTLB" I would love to contact either one of you via phone just got a couple questions/ideas to complete the task at hand, just send me a PM if your ok with that. Other than that I want to thank everyone on az for all the information put on here. I had some prior knowledge on table repair and recovering but have learned and applied much off what I have seen from many of you guys.
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08-15-2009, 01:29 PM

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Maybe not but who gives a dam if it does, I'm siding with Eddie on this one. Very innovative and unique solution. Maybe not applicable in all tables but it has alot of strengths....I know you like the smell of glue in the mourning Glen but you know its a good idea when you saw it. I also argee with OTLB about the MSDS, not trying to knock your action but man you never know with people. Go do some rich dudes diamond and his little girl gets sick and get busted by a bunch of lawyers, it's extreme but remember moore's law right??
Grey, if you'll read back on some of my posts, I stated that back in the 80's around 83/84 I tried using tack strips, so please keep in mind, tack strips are not new and innovative with todays use by OTLB, and I'm not knocking him for trying them out, that's his call. I for one, felt that there was a better way of attaching the bed cloth to slates back in the 80's other than having to replace missing backer boards in order to install tack strips, and worked on a lot of bar tables that they couldn't be applied to, so I passed on the idea, and believe me, I'm not the only one that tried that method a long time ago and dropped it as a good idea but not really feasible in the real world, as back then I worked on ALL kinds of pool tables, including 23 different kinds of manufactured coin-operated pool tables dumped in Washington State by just about every coin-op manufacture there was at the time.

Next subject, glue and the smell of it. When was the last time you heard of someone getting brain damage from glue, unless they put model glue in a brown paper bag, shoved it over their nose and breathed it all in...because they'd heard you could get high that way!

As far as being pregnant and smelling the glue I use, you're way off track here buddy. A pregnant woman smells more fumes from pumping her own gas at a gas station...every time she buys gas for her car! I don't ever recall hearing a pregnant woman come into a gas station and tell someone in there they had to go out and pump her gas for her...because she's pregnant! Yet, there is the dumb-shits that still believe that they can get high sniffing gasoline out of a brown paper bag as well.

Point is, when using the glue I use, don't use it unless there's ventilation, don't pour some in bag and try sniffing it, don't stick your nose in the can and breath deeply...that's NOT what the glue is used for. Use it the way it was designed to be used...and no problems.

If you want to know what smells worse, use oven-off to clean your oven, bleach to clean your toilet, or follow close behind a diesel truck for miles at a time, second hand smoke from cigarettes is another one.

In the last 26 years, I've never heard of someone being sued, or getting brain damage from having their pool table recovered by someone using glue, but I HAVE heard of people DIEING after getting a flu shot, that was suppose to keep them from catching the flu!!!!!!!!!!!

Believe me, there's no band wagon being formed against mechanics using glue to install bed cloths, or cushions/facings....only mechanics that talk about all the bad things that "could" happen, if conditions are right...because they don't want to change the way they work...for the better, even though if used right, it's safer than pumping your OWN gas!

Glen

PS. Ever heard of someone DIEING....because they DRANK to much?...Did you know that you can DIE from drinking to much WATER!, let alone to much alcohol!
  
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08-15-2009, 02:05 PM

tac strips are on the market and have been for a long time, I have no intention of trying to market them or make money on them. For Gods sake they hold down carpet! Maybe they should just glue carpet down instead on the edges and pre measure it., it would be a larger market then pool cloth for you Glen. I modify my tac strips from stock. Many guys try things and give up, I don't, I keep trying.

They don't make up the information on MSDS sheets, its real and its a hazard. I have already gone over my thoughts on this topic and when my new web site comes out I will cover it in full detail. Maybe I will post one on the site. Customers decide for themselves and many don't know, I seriously doubt you can win the argument. Its really no argument, there are lots of things that are a problem I agree but if there is a way around them I think its foolish to stick with a method that may pose a problem. So you go into a persons house and tell them you have to open all the windows so they don't get sick, but the glue is safe? Even I wouldn't want to sell that. Proof is in the pudding Glen. You showed 45 mechs according to LCCS how to do it. I assume you did a great job from all the posts I saw. There should probably be at least 50 tables done by now if they even did 1 per week.

Where are the pics of all the tables these guys are doing? I haven't seen one. Is it that hard to do it or aren't they doing it?

And again, so many mechs saw your method Glen, where are all the pics? If its the best thing since sliced bread for all tables I would like to see pics from all the guys using it on all tables. I think it has its place but it doesn't matter to me.

So if your in a persons house and there is no ventialtion then you can't do the job?

talking about open glue in a home and gas outside is not the same. They don't even let that glue on airplanes do they?

whoops, now up to 800,000

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08-15-2009, 03:41 PM

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Originally Posted by greyghost View Post
Maybe not but who gives a dam if it does, I'm siding with Eddie on this one. Very innovative and unique solution. Maybe not applicable in all tables but it has alot of strengths....I know you like the smell of glue in the mourning Glen but you know its a good idea when you saw it. I also argee with OTLB about the MSDS, not trying to knock your action but man you never know with people. Go do some rich dudes diamond and his little girl gets sick and get busted by a bunch of lawyers, it's extreme but remember moore's law right??

I'm currently taking my time with my table here's my hack job on one of the completed rails...shimmed to 4 1/4 at mouth and 3 3/4 at the throat. Can't wait to get it all done...oh and Glen I wanted to say thanks I saw your picture of hiding the staples and cuts on the pocket...just a nice addition to the work.

I am no where near to your guys skills, but with a couple basic simple tools, some oilfield engineering, a little time and patience anyone can do a good job on a table. I wish I just had extended rails, but the shims will play just fine, but brother it takes alot of paitence making that profile perfect. Much respect to you guys...I like to think I'm an exception to the rule but working on a table much less tightening pockets should be left to a pro. Not that anyone cant do it...its just I don't think 99% of people got the patience to do it correctly. Kinda like building cues...either do it right period or after your done rushing throw it in the fire.

I'm going to take better and more pics as I go along and post them so you guys can see.

Best Wishes,
Grey Ghost

P.S. Either Glen "RKC" or John "OTLB" I would love to contact either one of you via phone just got a couple questions/ideas to complete the task at hand, just send me a PM if your ok with that. Other than that I want to thank everyone on az for all the information put on here. I had some prior knowledge on table repair and recovering but have learned and applied much off what I have seen from many of you guys.
nice looking CLASSIC is it the 6 legged one or the 4?
i had one a 9' one a while back ....bought it for 500.00 played on it for 4 years and then sold it for 3000.00
mine had a deep shelf and played very tough......
scott
  
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08-15-2009, 04:13 PM

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Originally Posted by OTLB View Post
They don't even let that glue on airplanes do they?

whoops, now up to 800,000
Airplanes? That depends, Boeing uses it on their airplanes when they're being built...does that count?

Them are just feel sorry for you points And would you believe me if I told you...I was stapling cloth on tables LONG before you were even thinking about being a mechanic I've never once said I CAN"T staple cloth on the bed of a table....now have I? Maybe someday we can see who staples the cloth on a table the best...you or me
  
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08-15-2009, 04:22 PM

Well there you go challenging me again.

I could care less really, right now I am trying to figure out how to get 1100 balls on a pool table. Looks like everyone gave up but not me

If you want to start making comparisons I will send you my resume

Last edited by OTLB; 08-15-2009 at 04:38 PM.
  
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