stroking straight question
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stroking straight question - 06-07-2018, 04:17 PM

hi everyone i have a question,if someone has little wobbles in his stroke and isn't delivering the cue straight,how does he know that it is due to something wrong in his technique or due to not practicing enough on straight cueing to groove his upper arm muscles?or maybe because of both of the above?also if you do the up & down exercise with low/medium power,how many times out of 10 do you need to get the cue ball to come back to your tip in order to say that your stroke is fine?

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06-07-2018, 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
hi everyone i have a question,if someone has little wobbles in his stroke and isn't delivering the cue straight,how does he know that it is due to something wrong in his technique or due to not practicing enough on straight cueing to groove his upper arm muscles?or maybe because of both of the above?also if you do the up & down exercise with low/medium power,how many times out of 10 do you need to get the cue ball to come back to your tip in order to say that your stroke is fine?
i am not an instructor
but 8/9 ( maybe 9.5 /10 ) would be upper level result
if you dont stroke straight (little wobbles ) you need to cement your stroke
jmho
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06-09-2018, 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
hi everyone i have a question,if someone has little wobbles in his stroke and isn't delivering the cue straight,how does he know that it is due to something wrong in his technique or due to not practicing enough on straight cueing to groove his upper arm muscles?or maybe because of both of the above?also if you do the up & down exercise with low/medium power,how many times out of 10 do you need to get the cue ball to come back to your tip in order to say that your stroke is fine?
I can sympathize with your issue. I went through things like this a lot when I was learning. It's a common frustration among players who are at a level where they're still learning the fundamentals. You can't diagnose yourself because you don't know enough to diagnose the problem, and if you did know how to diagnose it, you probably wouldn't have the problem because you would know what not to do.

When you're diagnosing a problem, you have to set up a list of possibilities and explore each one. You can start with your grip. Are you gripping the cue in your fingertips? That can cause cue wobbles. Research different types of grips and experiment.

Also check the knuckles on your grip hand at address and then again after you've followed through after hitting the ball. They should be in the same place on the cue. If not, it means you turned your hand sometime during your stroke.

I would consider it a problem if when you hit the cue ball straight up and down the table, if it doesn't come back to your tip 8 out of 10 times.
  
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06-09-2018, 10:44 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I can sympathize with your issue. I went through things like this a lot when I was learning. It's a common frustration among players who are at a level where they're still learning the fundamentals. You can't diagnose yourself because you don't know enough to diagnose the problem, and if you did know how to diagnose it, you probably wouldn't have the problem because you would know what not to do.

When you're diagnosing a problem, you have to set up a list of possibilities and explore each one. You can start with your grip. Are you gripping the cue in your fingertips? That can cause cue wobbles. Research different types of grips and experiment.

Also check the knuckles on your grip hand at address and then again after you've followed through after hitting the ball. They should be in the same place on the cue. If not, it means you turned your hand sometime during your stroke.

I would consider it a problem if when you hit the cue ball straight up and down the table, if it doesn't come back to your tip 8 out of 10 times.
i believe the problem comes from having a chicken wing cue action for years & not learning to set up to the shot properly since i started playing.3 years ago i started changing my fundamentals but i didn't manage to correct the problem so i gave up playing tournaments.but yesterday when i was practicing i felt the magic position a couple of times,the cue was going straight and most of the shots were going in without effort.but then the cue wobbles came back and i couldn't find that position again.now the problem could be due to several reasons:1) my wrist is slightly turned in and i have noticed that when i rotate my wrist slightly out so that my thumb is pointing straight down my cue action straightens a bit.2)as i'm getting down to shoot,i kind of move my fingertips a little in my grip hand/twist my wrist slightly.i think this happens because i make minor adjustments subconsciously because of not setting up properly so now i have my grip hand already formed from the standing position and don't make any adjustments.3)since i corrected the chicken wing 3 years ago,i now don't place my elbow right over the cue,my elbow is very slightly offline to my right but not a lot like it used to.i find it uncomfortable to place my elbow right over the cue because i have a square stance which means i have to rotate my upper body a lot to achieve that and i think changing my entire stance to 45 degrees or more just to get the elbow directly over the cue is unnecessary but i could be wrong.

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06-10-2018, 12:53 PM

Not a instructor so take this advice with reservation. Line the cue with the long rail.
With your elbow also over the rail, stroke your cue back and forth in rail alignment,
to see what's creating a wobble. You can also try 'pushing' the cue through the CB.

With a tight grip and slight chicken wing stroke you need to be aligned almost perfectly... Too perfectly IMO.

.


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06-10-2018, 03:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Ralph Kramden View Post
Not a instructor so take this advice with reservation. Line the cue with the long rail.
With your elbow also over the rail, stroke your cue back and forth in rail alignment,
to see what's creating a wobble. You can also try 'pushing' the cue through the CB.

With a tight grip and slight chicken wing stroke you need to be aligned almost perfectly... Too perfectly IMO.

.
how will that show me what's creating the wobbles?the only thing this will show me is that the cue isn't traveling in a straight line.
  
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06-10-2018, 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Kramden View Post
Not a instructor so take this advice with reservation. Line the cue with the long rail.
With your elbow also over the rail, stroke your cue back and forth in rail alignment,
to see what's creating a wobble. You can also try 'pushing' the cue through the CB.

With a tight grip and slight chicken wing stroke you need to be aligned almost perfectly... Too perfectly IMO.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
how will that show me what's creating the wobbles?the only thing this will show me is that the cue isn't traveling in a straight line.
It will make it clear what stroking straight looks and feels like so you can try to replicate that stroke - with enough repetition it should "groove in" for you.

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06-11-2018, 05:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
hi everyone i have a question,if someone has little wobbles in his stroke and isn't delivering the cue straight,how does he know that it is due to something wrong in his technique or due to not practicing enough on straight cueing to groove his upper arm muscles?or maybe because of both of the above?also if you do the up & down exercise with low/medium power,how many times out of 10 do you need to get the cue ball to come back to your tip in order to say that your stroke is fine?
Sometimes the wobble is a compensation for improper body and/or eye alignment. PM me for a free lesson. I'll straighten your stroke immediately.

Thanks.


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06-11-2018, 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
i believe the problem comes from having a chicken wing cue action for years & not learning to set up to the shot properly since i started playing.3 years ago i started changing my fundamentals but i didn't manage to correct the problem so i gave up playing tournaments.but yesterday when i was practicing i felt the magic position a couple of times,the cue was going straight and most of the shots were going in without effort.but then the cue wobbles came back and i couldn't find that position again.now the problem could be due to several reasons:1) my wrist is slightly turned in and i have noticed that when i rotate my wrist slightly out so that my thumb is pointing straight down my cue action straightens a bit.2)as i'm getting down to shoot,i kind of move my fingertips a little in my grip hand/twist my wrist slightly.i think this happens because i make minor adjustments subconsciously because of not setting up properly so now i have my grip hand already formed from the standing position and don't make any adjustments.3)since i corrected the chicken wing 3 years ago,i now don't place my elbow right over the cue,my elbow is very slightly offline to my right but not a lot like it used to.i find it uncomfortable to place my elbow right over the cue because i have a square stance which means i have to rotate my upper body a lot to achieve that and i think changing my entire stance to 45 degrees or more just to get the elbow directly over the cue is unnecessary but i could be wrong.
Well, you should have said that in your first post. Why make us guess?
  
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06-11-2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Kramden View Post
Not a instructor so take this advice with reservation. Line the cue with the long rail.
With your elbow also over the rail, stroke your cue back and forth in rail alignment,
to see what's creating a wobble. You can also try 'pushing' the cue through the CB.

With a tight grip and slight chicken wing stroke you need to be aligned almost perfectly... Too perfectly IMO.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
how will that show me what's creating the wobbles?the only thing this will show me is that the cue isn't traveling in a straight line.
Bend your arm at the elbow. The only way your hand can move, is directly toward your shoulder.
If your hand moves to the left or right of your shoulder it has been internally or externally rotated.

The chicken wing moves the cue sideways, or wobbles toward the side unless you compensate.
It's possible to compensate by turning your wrist, but you need good timing that's hard to repeat.

.


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Recognize a 1/2 ball 30 degree cut, and the 1/8 ball angles.
Paralysis by aiming analysis happens by thinking too much.

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06-11-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
hi everyone i have a question,if someone has little wobbles in his stroke and isn't delivering the cue straight,how does he know that it is due to something wrong in his technique or due to not practicing enough on straight cueing to groove his upper arm muscles?or maybe because of both of the above?also if you do the up & down exercise with low/medium power,how many times out of 10 do you need to get the cue ball to come back to your tip in order to say that your stroke is fine?


Hittin off enter a 1/16th of an inch will give me one diamond over for example so take note of that when doing such routines; itís easy tho can be difficult and it does take very high precision and good alignment to accomplish it perfect.....

First you must use a ball where you can check the chalk mark for the proper hit; the players stroke could be true while their alignment is bad, or vice versa.

It could also very well be the two issues you mentioned. More info is needed for a proper troubleshooting and diagnosis.

Video analysis would tell us the true story

-greyghost


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10-03-2018, 08:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Kramden View Post
Bend your arm at the elbow. The only way your hand can move, is directly toward your shoulder.
If your hand moves to the left or right of your shoulder it has been internally or externally rotated.

The chicken wing moves the cue sideways, or wobbles toward the side unless you compensate.
It's possible to compensate by turning your wrist, but you need good timing that's hard to repeat.

.
so i've been wondering,all the pro pool/snooker players with chicken/reverse chicken wing strokes don't actually stroke straight and compensate for the lateral cue movement?

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10-03-2018, 12:32 PM

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Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
so i've been wondering,all the pro pool/snooker players with chicken/reverse chicken wing strokes don't actually stroke straight and compensate for the lateral cue movement?
Generally yes - but everybody's elbow joint is a little different, so maybe some minor chickenwinging might actually produce a straight stroke for the right person.

You can also have your elbow directly above your cue in straight-stroking position but your cue not directly centered in your vision - how far you hold your elbow from your body (and how you position your shoulders and head, among other things) also contribute to the effectiveness of your stance/stroke.

Finding the right combination of all these moving parts for your personal physiology can be like a game of whack-a-mole - fixing this unfixes that, etc. Another pair of experienced eyes (i.e., an instructor) is very helpful.

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10-03-2018, 01:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Generally yes - but everybody's elbow joint is a little different, so maybe some minor chickenwinging might actually produce a straight stroke for the right person.

You can also have your elbow directly above your cue in straight-stroking position but your cue not directly centered in your vision - how far you hold your elbow from your body (and how you position your shoulders and head, among other things) also contribute to the effectiveness of your stance/stroke.

Finding the right combination of all these moving parts for your personal physiology can be like a game of whack-a-mole - fixing this unfixes that, etc. Another pair of experienced eyes (i.e., an instructor) is very helpful.

pj
chgo
thank you for clearing that up.yes,i'm going through what you're describing for a long time now but i think i'm getting closer to figuring it out.the line of my stroking arm's path is not in line with the line of the shot,my stroking arm wants to travel slightly to the left of the shotline from my point of view.so it's most likely a body alignment issue

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10-03-2018, 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nt0n3r View Post
so i've been wondering,all the pro pool/snooker players with chicken/reverse chicken wing strokes don't actually stroke straight and compensate for the lateral cue movement?
I'm trying to guess who you are referring to. Is there a video that demonstrates this pretty well? Usually they do not show a camera angle from directly behind a player.


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