14.1 Help
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wswhiting
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14.1 Help - 05-24-2018, 05:46 AM

I'm getting frustrated with this game. I ran 35 and missed an easy shot. I tend to shoot too fast and not take my time.

My end pattern play sucks. I just generally look at what I think will make a good break shot and key ball and pop balls in without giving things too much thought and when I get to my key ball, I have the wrong angle by half an inch.

I know I should walk around the table and look at position from where the cue ball is going to travel, but I don't. Arrrrgggggggg!

Any drills that would help with end ball patterns? Other than balls in front of the side pocket, what other key ball positions make good choices? My friend likes to take balls that are below the break shot. He's no slouch with a high run of 154 on a diamond table. My friend also videos our practice sessions and I know that helps with fundamentals that tend to deteriorate at times. What else should I look for?
  
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05-24-2018, 06:46 AM

a while back a drill was mentioned where you rack 5 balls (2 in front 3 in the back )
and take a 6th ball and place it as your break shot
with ball in hand to start
break the balls and work towards another break shot
see how many racks you can run
  
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Pushout
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05-24-2018, 08:46 AM

You might want to take a look at Phil Capelle's "Break Shot Patterns" book/DVD combination. Each page of the book has a corresponding video showing how an individual Pro player played each sequence. I highly recommend this!


I had a stroke. I had it when I came in, I KNOW I did

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Straight Pool is not a race!

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ChrisinNC
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05-24-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wswhiting View Post
I'm getting frustrated with this game. I ran 35 and missed an easy shot. I tend to shoot too fast and not take my time.

My end pattern play sucks. I just generally look at what I think will make a good break shot and key ball and pop balls in without giving things too much thought and when I get to my key ball, I have the wrong angle by half an inch.

I know I should walk around the table and look at position from where the cue ball is going to travel, but I don't. Arrrrgggggggg!

Any drills that would help with end ball patterns? Other than balls in front of the side pocket, what other key ball positions make good choices? My friend likes to take balls that are below the break shot. He's no slouch with a high run of 154 on a diamond table. My friend also videos our practice sessions and I know that helps with fundamentals that tend to deteriorate at times. What else should I look for?
If you ran 35, you obviously are a skilled player. What age are you, how long have you played pool, how long have you played 14.1 and do you have an opportunity to play 14.1 matches with players as good or better than you?

If it's not that long, you may be too tough on yourself. Early in the rack, you need to look at the best potential break balls, then look for your key set-up balls that require the cue ball traveling the least possible distance to give you your proper angle for the break ball. Then try to work backwards a few more balls that have the best chance to get you to the proper angle (preferably close to straight in) on your key ball - the 2nd to last object ball on the table.

Watch some youtube videos of accomplished players making high runs. They make it look easy, but you'll pick up some valuable skills as far as run out pattern play and planning ahead for the break ball. If you are motivated and keep working at it, you'll gradually get that high run to climb. It takes many years of playing and practicing 14.1 to learn the game well enough just to run 3-4 racks, and unless you are incredibly gifted at this game, many additional years more to approach or reach the century mark (7+ racks) - a mark/goal that most lifelong 14.1 players never reach.

I ran 98 about 15 years ago in my mid 40s, and now at age 61 I've pretty much given up on the idea of making it to 100, just cause I feel the limited time I'm able to play/practice these days I should concentrate on spending my table time towards trying to maintain a respectable 9-ball game, as that's what all the good players want to play, and I don't like one-pocket.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 05-24-2018 at 01:02 PM. Reason: Add
  
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sparkle84
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05-24-2018, 01:25 PM

If you have a friend whose hi run is 154 then if he can't help you I doubt we can. Lots of (I need help) threads on here. Search em out.
  
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crazysnake
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05-24-2018, 03:39 PM

Twenty years ago I ran 34 balls. My opponent missed leaving an open table. I ran 11, 14, and 10. In that run I got on two break shots. Had I been able to get through that second full rack and onto a break ball, I may have been able to run 50 balls. My opponent, a very knowledgeable straight player, said that getting through the third rack and getting on a good end pattern to get into the fourth rack is a significant milestone in a person's game.
It sounds like you need to slow down. If you don't walk around the table and survey the lay out so as to properly label balls, it is likely that you will be undermining an opportunity to identify an end pattern. Blackjack has some excellent instructional videos on his YouTube channel, with drills and commentary of players like Hohmann and Feijen. But, honestly, just watch Mika and Hohmann. There have to be close to 50 videos combined of runs close to, if not over, a hundred.

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05-24-2018, 03:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wswhiting View Post
I'm getting frustrated with this game. I ran 35 and missed an easy shot. I tend to shoot too fast and not take my time.

My end pattern play sucks. I just generally look at what I think will make a good break shot and key ball and pop balls in without giving things too much thought and when I get to my key ball, I have the wrong angle by half an inch.

I know I should walk around the table and look at position from where the cue ball is going to travel, but I don't. Arrrrgggggggg!

Any drills that would help with end ball patterns? Other than balls in front of the side pocket, what other key ball positions make good choices? My friend likes to take balls that are below the break shot. He's no slouch with a high run of 154 on a diamond table. My friend also videos our practice sessions and I know that helps with fundamentals that tend to deteriorate at times. What else should I look for?
Since I haven't seen you play, I'll put my previous thoughts on the matter up. A lot of work went into these posts, and they are the best I can do as far as general advice.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=428989
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=429312
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=455091
  
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05-24-2018, 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysnake View Post
Twenty years ago I ran 34 balls. My opponent missed leaving an open table. I ran 11, 14, and 10. ...
Check your arithmetic.
  
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lfigueroa
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05-25-2018, 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wswhiting View Post
I'm getting frustrated with this game. I ran 35 and missed an easy shot. I tend to shoot too fast and not take my time.

My end pattern play sucks. I just generally look at what I think will make a good break shot and key ball and pop balls in without giving things too much thought and when I get to my key ball, I have the wrong angle by half an inch.

I know I should walk around the table and look at position from where the cue ball is going to travel, but I don't. Arrrrgggggggg!

Any drills that would help with end ball patterns? Other than balls in front of the side pocket, what other key ball positions make good choices? My friend likes to take balls that are below the break shot. He's no slouch with a high run of 154 on a diamond table. My friend also videos our practice sessions and I know that helps with fundamentals that tend to deteriorate at times. What else should I look for?

My opinion is that it's not about running 35 -- it's the quality of the run that matters. Was it clean and well structured, or did you occasionally (frequently) luck into position, did you need circus shots to continue, was the run itself a fluke or what you consistently accomplish?

IOWs, running 35 consistently is the goal, not achieving a one off. If you want to see how it's done I'd recommend watching some solid 14.1 perhaps by Thorsten Hohmann. Danny Harriman, who posts here, has a very solid *big* run available for viewing. Then try and incorporate what you've seen into your own game.

Lou Figueroa
  
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ChrisinNC
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05-25-2018, 06:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wswhiting View Post
I'm getting frustrated with this game. I ran 35 and missed an easy shot. I tend to shoot too fast and not take my time.

My end pattern play sucks. I just generally look at what I think will make a good break shot and key ball and pop balls in without giving things too much thought and when I get to my key ball, I have the wrong angle by half an inch.

I know I should walk around the table and look at position from where the cue ball is going to travel, but I don't. Arrrrgggggggg!

Any drills that would help with end ball patterns? Other than balls in front of the side pocket, what other key ball positions make good choices? My friend likes to take balls that are below the break shot. He's no slouch with a high run of 154 on a diamond table. My friend also videos our practice sessions and I know that helps with fundamentals that tend to deteriorate at times. What else should I look for?
As another poster commented, your friend with a high run of 154 should be able to impart everything you need to know to improve your 14.1 game, if you are willing to listen to him, practice, and slow down a little. There are likely no more than a few hundred living pool players that have a high run of 150+. You are indeed lucky to have that resource.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 05-25-2018 at 06:16 AM. Reason: edit
  
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Bob Jewett
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05-25-2018, 06:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wswhiting View Post
...

Any drills that would help with end ball patterns? ...
Yes. Here is an excellent end pattern drill that I got from a 14.1 clinic Alex Lely gave in Chicago. But first, here is a little more motivation to work on this. I was talking to Jimmy Caras and the discussion turned to Willie Mosconi. He said that Willie was just a middle-of-the-pack player until he mastered the last five balls. After that no one could beat him. Jimmy didn't say exactly when this happened, but I suspect it was on the storied exhibition road trip with Greenleaf. Anyway, here is the drill. I would call the drill 5.1.

Start with your favorite break shot. After the break, remove all but five balls from the table. You are making the last-five pattern up from what's available. Run those balls to the break shot, break, and again remove all but five balls from the table. See how many you can run this way.

Often you will have a good break shot available from the 14 balls on the table, but occasionally you will want to bump a ball into position, and you will have to arrange that with the five balls you select to leave on the table.


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05-29-2018, 04:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Yes. Here is an excellent end pattern drill that I got from a 14.1 clinic Alex Lely gave in Chicago. But first, here is a little more motivation to work on this. I was talking to Jimmy Caras and the discussion turned to Willie Mosconi. He said that Willie was just a middle-of-the-pack player until he mastered the last five balls. After that no one could beat him. Jimmy didn't say exactly when this happened, but I suspect it was on the storied exhibition road trip with Greenleaf. Anyway, here is the drill. I would call the drill 5.1.

Start with your favorite break shot. After the break, remove all but five balls from the table. You are making the last-five pattern up from what's available. Run those balls to the break shot, break, and again remove all but five balls from the table. See how many you can run this way.

Often you will have a good break shot available from the 14 balls on the table, but occasionally you will want to bump a ball into position, and you will have to arrange that with the five balls you select to leave on the table.
I got similar advice from Jerry Briesath. Recognizing that progressing from one rack to the next is most dependent on the next break shot, he advised practicing for 14.1 in this way:

Starting with a clear table, first place a break ball. Then place the key ball. Then place a key to the key ball. Then place two or three balls at random locations. Now plan backwards from the break ball, take CB in hand and follow the plan as best you can.
  
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06-08-2018, 05:38 PM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
My opinion is that it's not about running 35 -- it's the quality of the run that matters.
No kidding. 35 is easy when I luck in a couple of hard shots. I've never gotten to 35 with all easy, simple shots. Reasonable angles, nothing but a touch of english, soft to medium shots, etc. I've gotten there many time by beating the table into submission, and I've never gotten past 40 as far as I know.

It's a depressingly difficult game despite the notion that you just "shoot whatever you want." LOL.
  
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06-10-2018, 01:21 PM

You might consider ‘going back to basics’, and analyzing what’s wrong with your game:
Are you missing shots you should be making? Is position your problem (hooking yourself/wrong side of the ball/poor speed control/etc.)? Poor planning (rushing ball selection/not looking far enough ahead/etc.)?
Back when I became really serious about improving my game, I realized my greatest obstacle was ‘history’. For the same reason Michael Jordan couldn’t hit a fastball (a skill great hitters typically master in their early teen years, when permanent brain synapses were forming), I had self-learned too many bad habits as a kid (no one to teach me otherwise), and in stressful situations, I would tend to revert.
Once you can identify those flaws, you will have targets to zero in on.
  
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