Finding a fair game for a short stop US player in the Philippines

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
No guts no gory!

Just for the sake of complete information... When I was in Iraq for two years, I would get a 2 week vacation every six months, and while travelling back to the U.S., I would always have to stay a night in Kuwait for visa purposes. I had been told that there are plenty of Filipinos in Kuwait, and they play pool.

The first time I was in Kuwait, I jumped in a cab, and told the driver, "Take me someplace where the Filipinos play pool." He took me to a little mall in Saliyah where there were two tables set up in the basement, with "B" players playing on table 1, and "A" players on table 2. Not "our" definition of those two skill levels, but the "A" players were amongst the best in Kuwait, and the "B" players were a tier below them. And nobody gets on either one of these tables unless they are gambling.

I got matched up in a race to 3, Filipino Rotation, with one of the "B" players, for about $40.00. For some reason, even though we had extremely shiite tables in Iraq, and there was no one good to play, I just happened to be in dead stroke when they matched me up on the second table. The entire race to three took maybe 7-8 innings or so. I think I ran one rack straight through to 61. And when I played safe, my opponent was generally frozen to a ball with a minimum two-rail kick. All whilst people around me are explaining the rules when my opponent missed a kick, scratched, etc.

Dude did NOT look happy when he paid off, and no one else stepped up to play. Better than that? The next trip through Kuwait, I got ZERO action, from either table. Now, keep in mind, in general an American is gonna be seen as an easy mark for those Filipinos, so generally, the ongoing match would be finished, and an American would be asked if they want to gamble. That didn't happen.

Even better than THAT? ABout 5-6 years later, I am on a contract in Afghanistan, and I am talking to the Filipino bus driver on post, and tell him I play pool. He said that he did too, and he used to work in Kuwait. He then told me about a story of some chubby American pool player that came through some years back and just crushed cookies, lol. I asked for some clarification on the time frame, and I will let you guess the rest. All over a race to 3, lol...

So, not tooting my own horn, but to illustrate where one would need to be... I am, on paper, a 583 Fargorate. The last time I played a tournament or league that was legitimately Fargorated (not Derby, as they don't report the full match score..) was likely around 4 years ago, before I came to Germany. That being said, I track the players I went to BCA Nationals with (I think we came in somewhere around 25th-32nd place in the Open division, out of 465 teams..), plus players I regularly beat in Colorado and Wyoming. A lot of those players are in the 625-650 range.

Before I left Colorado, I had a short period where I worked out and lost a bunch of weight, and I went on a tear where for a few months, I placed top 4 in every large regional event I played in. It was all bar box, but I surprised a few shortstop level players in the few 9 foot events that we had, coming a LOT closer (hill-hill loss in a race to 15 against a player currently rated 693) than Fargorate predicts. I asked Mike Page about this, and I still think it might play a part in my Fargorate, but as evidenced here - https://ctsondemand.com/PlayerSearch.aspx?s=Chewning , it seems a lackluster performance by my son in the junior event was attached to my name, somehow? Mike says it was not applied to my rating, but I am somewhere around 50 points lower than everyone else on that Open 8 ball team, and me and 1 other guys were kind of the anchors for that team, so?

So... I don't know what my "real" Fargorate is, but I expect it is somewhere slightly north of 600, so.... Especially if I were to lose weight and actually PRACTICE on the table I have at home, and the snooker table in the basement, who knows?

That being said.. I'd say I am good enough to look at someone playing legitimately, and have a good idea whether I have a chance or not. I would also say that I am good enough that if a player with a Fargorate within 50 points of me tried to "lay down", they might get surprised.

I say all this because my wife and I are planning to go to the Phillipines for the first time next year, and I've put some thought into how I would match up against the players outside of tier 1/tier 2 in the Phillipines. I liked the advice above, to keep the bet low, and one won't attract the good players.


Sheeyee-it Russ,

You know what they say, no guts, no gory! Do you really want to go to the Philippines to duck the tough action? Fifty or a hundred US is probably enough to wake up a little interest. I consider Jay our resident expert on all things Philippine, I would get the lay of the land and the straight skinny from him in private conversation before heading there. Where is AnitoKid? Haven't noticed him posting. He is a good guy and I would think whatever he said was bible too.

With your back to the wall you might end up with another fun story to tell. I made a flying trip through a pool hall in Atlanta years ago that I suspect was legend for years. Gave a stupid spot without thinking then realized who I had given it to. I played about ten feet over my head to get out of that one and the rest of the people in the hall stopped play to watch. The counterman was on the rail too. They wanted to call the best Atlanta had at the time to see some action but I was just killing time before catching the silver bird out.

Hu
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Sheeyee-it Russ,

You know what they say, no guts, no gory! Do you really want to go to the Philippines to duck the tough action? Fifty or a hundred US is probably enough to wake up a little interest. I consider Jay our resident expert on all things Philippine, I would get the lay of the land and the straight skinny from him in private conversation before heading there. Where is AnitoKid? Haven't noticed him posting. He is a good guy and I would think whatever he said was bible too.

With your back to the wall you might end up with another fun story to tell. I made a flying trip through a pool hall in Atlanta years ago that I suspect was legend for years. Gave a stupid spot without thinking then realized who I had given it to. I played about ten feet over my head to get out of that one and the rest of the people in the hall stopped play to watch. The counterman was on the rail too. They wanted to call the best Atlanta had at the time to see some action but I was just killing time before catching the silver bird out.

Hu

Well, heck, you just might end up convincing me. I think trying to play the champions without a spot though, is an exercise in futility.. Now.... Given that I "think" I am a bit underrated, I also have the option to basically say, "We match up based on what Fargorate says an even game is, and that's all there is to say about that. Take it or leave it." And if I drop a bunch of weight and seriously practice on the snooker table downstairs, might be a good time is had by all.

But I doubt I'd be playing the top tier guys for $100.00 sets, and that's about as high as I am gonna go in the land of Hustlers...... :)

BTW... Who was it that you spotted?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, heck, you just might end up convincing me. I think trying to play the champions without a spot though, is an exercise in futility.. Now.... Given that I "think" I am a bit underrated, I also have the option to basically say, "We match up based on what Fargorate says an even game is, and that's all there is to say about that. Take it or leave it." And if I drop a bunch of weight and seriously practice on the snooker table downstairs, might be a good time is had by all.

But I doubt I'd be playing the top tier guys for $100.00 sets, and that's about as high as I am gonna go in the land of Hustlers...... :)

BTW... Who was it that you spotted?

American dollars go a long way in the PI.

You can play forever if you don't try to "high roll" with one of their best players right off the bat.

Play "by the game" for whatever you are comfortable with playing for and ration your bankroll. Table time is cheap there and they have "nothing else to do", so they aren't going to run away from you as long as they are winning. If they don't have a backer and are losing, that may be a different story.

No matter how much you bet, it will be equal to, or higher, than what the average Joe plays for over there. If you are out to make a fortune, you are in the wrong place. If you are out to have fun and test yourself, you can find action in lots of places.

FWIW, I wouldn't be flashing a lot of cash...no matter where I was over there, or who I was with.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, heck, you just might end up convincing me. I think trying to play the champions without a spot though, is an exercise in futility.. Now.... Given that I "think" I am a bit underrated, I also have the option to basically say, "We match up based on what Fargorate says an even game is, and that's all there is to say about that. Take it or leave it." And if I drop a bunch of weight and seriously practice on the snooker table downstairs, might be a good time is had by all.

But I doubt I'd be playing the top tier guys for $100.00 sets, and that's about as high as I am gonna go in the land of Hustlers...... :)

BTW... Who was it that you spotted?


The game was eight ball. I had to make what would be legal shots normally but only banks, kicks, combinations, and caroms, nothing straight in or just off of the adjoining rail. Playing on an old nine foot table I was mostly getting out in one or two innings, sometimes three when I had to massage the eightball position to be able to kick or bank it.

My opponent was a good enough player that he could run out too so I had to win in a hurry. Pretty sure I didn't lose a game and it was taking some pretty fancy shots to get out in the usual one or two innings. Wasn't a tough table but it was a ratty nine footer in a place I had never played.

Neither side is required to be an absolute bible when matching up. However, a little heads up against some of the near top players may help you find a gear you didn't know you had! Never cared for a spot. I tell everybody if I played Shane or Efren I would spot them three balls. I'm gonna lose anyway, what sounds better when I tell the story, they spotted me three balls or I spotted them three?

I did love tuning on a snooker table myself when I shot often enough on a regular table to stay in tune on both. My high run on the snooker table was six balls, banks, in normal play. I had hung at that when I started looking for banks on the snooker table after hanging at four balls awhile. I moved away and never got past that. Closest I came to a 147 was a five ball. Drilled it center pocket and it popped back out to end my run three balls or a million miles short of perfect. I had dead shape on the six and seven too, just had to roll the cue ball from inside half table. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't damn it!

Hu
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
American dollars go a long way in the PI.

You can play forever if you don't try to "high roll" with one of their best players right off the bat.

Play "by the game" for whatever you are comfortable with playing for and ration your bankroll. Table time is cheap there and they have "nothing else to do", so they aren't going to run away from you as long as they are winning. If they don't have a backer and are losing, that may be a different story.

No matter how much you bet, it will be equal to, or higher, than what the average Joe plays for over there. If you are out to make a fortune, you are in the wrong place. If you are out to have fun and test yourself, you can find action in lots of places.

FWIW, I wouldn't be flashing a lot of cash...no matter where I was over there, or who I was with.

This is a guy who knows the score. I like his posts on here. It sounds like he was (and is) a better player than me. I also played my best pool in my 20's and 30's and was never more than a decent shortstop. I knew my speed (that's so important to be honest with yourself) and I knew it took a good player to beat me. Thus I never really "hustled" pool. I just went in a place looking for a game and took on whoever wanted to play. Most of the time local players are wary of strangers coming in looking for action and that probably worked to my advantage psychologically.

I took that same attitude in the Philippines, even though I was well past my peak but could still play at a shortstop level when I was 60. I went into a zillion little poolrooms just looking for a game and ALWAYS got accomodated. What I discovered is that there were many players over there who played at or even below my level and I could hold my own until they brought someone in to play me. If I was outgunned I simply pulled up after a few games or one set.

I was playing cheap pool for rarely more than 500 or 1000P a game. That's ten or twenty dollars. I was there to have fun and challenge myself. I've also played a lot in Angeles City in recent years where they have a 9' table or two in most every bar. There are no bar tables in the Philippines! Seems like everyone plays pool there and you see guys walking around with cue sticks everywhere. Oh how I wish it could ever have been like that here! Many bars have challenge tables where you just play for the game and the winner keeps the table and the loser pays the house 15 or 20p for the game. It's always Eight Ball too. You can keep playing as long as you keep winning. I've broken up many of these games after winning a dozen or more games in a row. No money, just satisfaction. I've also subbed on some leagues in big matches (also Eight Ball) and done well. It's hard to find a money game there now unless you're willing to play a very strong player. They're out there waiting, Filipinos, Aussies and Euros who all play jam up. Ive played a couple of guys One Pocket and Banks where I had an edge but they catch on fast so I'm not actively pursuing any more higher stakes action. I'm very much in the twilight of my pool career and content to teach some of the kids a few shots they don't know.
 
Last edited:

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Ive played a couple of guys One Pocket and Banks where I had an edge but they catch on fast so I'm not actively pursuing any more higher stakes action. I'm very much in the twilight of my pool career and content to teach some of the kids a few shots they don't know.

Jay, is there a lot of One Pocket there amongst the non champions?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay, is there a lot of One Pocket there amongst the non champions?

NO! They still prefer Rotation first with Ten Ball being a second choice and Eight Ball third. I'm talking about gambling because if you include all the league player's and complete amateurs then Eight Ball is number one.

Surprisingly, One Pocket is rarely played in the PI.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
NO! They still prefer Rotation first with Ten Ball being a second choice and Eight Ball third. I'm talking about gambling because if you include all the league player's and complete amateurs then Eight Ball is number one.

Surprisingly, One Pocket is rarely played in the PI.

Hmm... I might practice up some last pocket 8 ball to prepare. I got a nice "shot story" about last pocket on your other thread.. Last pocket 8 ball is a funny game.. If you can get your opponent out of stroke, there is no recovery, as precise cue ball control is king. Can't just shoot your way out like in 9 ball...
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hmm... I might practice up some last pocket 8 ball to prepare. I got a nice "shot story" about last pocket on your other thread.. Last pocket 8 ball is a funny game.. If you can get your opponent out of stroke, there is no recovery, as precise cue ball control is king. Can't just shoot your way out like in 9 ball...

That could work. They will want to play you so bad (they love playing foreigners) that you can put a little twist on the game, spend a minute or two explaining it and they are ready to go. I know how strategic that game can be and there is definitely a learning curve to it.
 

rc707

New member
Finding a fair game for a short top US player in the Philippines

as an American, I can tell you, yes, you can find a fair game. Let's set some things straight. Not all Filipinos are "Efren's". There are some pinoys who are actually just good players that are great to match up with, and like action, and who may be in similar skill to you. If they're willing to place bets, they're likely to be decent B players at least. The big stakes will attract the bigger sharks, of course. You can gamble at all sorts of prices from $5 USD, up $20 for "friendly" games, and ante up from there from the better players. Just enjoy the experience. The culture is different from US, everything from the tables varying from US Brunswicks, US Diamond Tables, Chinese Yalin Tables, to local Starpaper pool tables, to Korean Kangaroo pool tables, to AMF pool tables. Just adapt to them as they have to adapt to all those variations. And filipinos are fun and expressive, so don't expect it to be quiet like a church in a lively pool hall. all the chaos that goes on around the pool tables there damn near make the pinoys shark-proof. win-lose- or draw, just enjoy and have fun with good people.
 
Top