Do some shafts produce more spin draw and follow

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SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
That may be the case for YOU.

Personally, I think that depends on the method being used.

It's much like golf balls & tennis strings & the power being applied.

Ladies golf balls were 80 compression while Pro men hit 100 compression.

Tennis rackets are strung 'soft' for weak players to employ a trampoline effect. Strong players use 'hard' tight strings.

About a decade ago driver heads were being made of the hardest metal so that there would be no give & the golf ball would be compressed as much as possible.

Now they are being made with malleable Soft Metal at the perimeter of the head to get that trampoline effect.

The same with golf shaft flex. Softer for ladies & extra stiff, 'hard' for male Pros.

I know you will probably say BUT... those things are not pool & not spinning a cue ball.

And you would be correct.

I've been playing with english & spinning the ball for nearly 5 decades while using soft Elk Master tips & could draw the ball 2 table lengths on the old slow cloth when needed or sometimes when I made a mistake & over did it.

So... Like I said, personally, I think it depends on some other factors relating to how one does it.

I'm sure you can draw the hell out of it with the hard tips but I personally did not like them for other reasons.

But... that was back then. Now days with high tech things are a bit different.

Best Wishes.

Nope. It's a fact.

When someone can draw the ball on the pool table with a racket or golf club, then you might have a legitimate argument.
Sure you could draw the ball with an elk master. So can I.
You would get more distance with a harder tip.
The rest of your game might go down the drain because you hate the way the hardness plays, but you would draw the ball further.

But don't listen to me.
Cut your tip off and stick the hardest tip you can find on it.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Possible

FYI, several logical explanations for this are described in the numbered list on the robot squirt testing resource page. Meucci's testing procedures violated pretty much every Rule of Deflection Testing, so many misleading results are possible.

Enjoy,
Dave

Hi Dr Dave
Guess I am going to put you on the spot on this one.
Could you please go into some kind of explanation on your statement ( misleading results ) are possible.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi Dr Dave
Guess I am going to put you on the spot on this one.
Could you please go into some kind of explanation on your statement ( misleading results ) are possible.
The statement is fully explained and justified on the robot squirt testing resource page (see the numbered list of "Rules of CB Deflection (Squirt) Testing" beneath the video).

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Nope. It's a fact.

When someone can draw the ball on the pool table with a racket or golf club, then you might have a legitimate argument.
Sure you could draw the ball with an elk master. So can I.
You would get more distance with a harder tip.
The rest of your game might go down the drain because you hate the way the hardness plays, but you would draw the ball further.

But don't listen to me.
Cut your tip off and stick the hardest tip you can find on it.

I've played with hard tips & recently with a White Diamond break tip.

I understand that the hard tip can transfer more energy for certain forces.

The compression of the different tips & the time on the ball & the wrapping of the tips around the ball & the flex of the shaft &/or ferrule material ALL can be contributing factors.

Do you have any extensive strict scientific test results data to show me?

Or are you basing what you're saying on personal experience & insufficient test data based on not so extensive study.

Have you hit with all different angles of cue stick or are you comparing basically one angle of cue stick?

I hope you can see & understand what I'm saying.

Some say all things being 'equal' BUT... all things do not always need be 'equal'.

That is why I also mentioned methods.

Yes, with a straight on shot the OB can absorb the speed that the hard tip puts on the ball along with the spin.

Will the OB pocket if not center pocket at such high speed.

I know that is more than the initial premise but it is playing pool.

How hard does one want to hit a shot?

Best Wishes.

PS That non strong female golfer (less force) can hit that 80 compression ball farther than she can hit that 100 compression ball. She can also spin that 80 compression ball more than she can spin that 100 compression ball. Science is science.
 
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mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
A draw contest.

I would be very interested in a draw contest and in its results.

Personally I think it is the shaft ferrule or tip that is the issue some times.
Other times I know its the person who cant draw for $hit.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Now you're asking similar questions that Meucci asked about that BUTT.

Why did it perform so well?
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dave, is it known whether shaft stiffness affects power transmission like a harder tip does? Is the answer different for centerball vs. spin shots?
By "power transmission," I assume you mean "efficiency" or "coefficient of restitution" (COR).

I suspect this would change slightly with shaft flexibility (both longitudinal and lateral), and I suspect it would be different for centerball vs. off-center hits, but I don't have any hard evidence. Anecdotally, any vibration remaining in the cue after a hit represents lost energy, so I would expect a cue that vibrates a lot after a hit would have slightly less efficiency.

BTW, good super-slo-mo videos showing many of the ways a cue can vibrate after a hit can be found on the cue vibration resource page.

Regards,
Dave
 

Corwyn_8

Energy Curmudgeon
Silver Member
How about you state yours that contradict my proposals?

Your post is rather odd & I have an idea why that might be.

Now that's some serious deflection :smile:

I don't have a dog in this hunt, I am merely trying to get an understanding of the issue. If you have equations or empirical data, I would kindly request that you post it. If not, I will adjust the weight I give your claims accordingly.

Thank you kindly.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Vibrations and harmonics

By "power transmission," I assume you mean "efficiency" or "coefficient of restitution" (COR).

I suspect this would change slightly with shaft flexibility (both longitudinal and lateral), and I suspect it would be different for centerball vs. off-center hits, but I don't have any hard evidence. Anecdotally, any vibration remaining in the cue after a hit represents lost energy, so I would expect a cue that vibrates a lot after a hit would have slightly less efficiency.

BTW, good super-slo-mo videos showing many of the ways a cue can vibrate after a hit can be found on the cue vibration resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Cues that vibrate also sound broken or cracked to me....
I would like to say that the cue or cues I play with don't vibrate compared to most other cues.....
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Now that's some serious deflection :smile:

I don't have a dog in this hunt, I am merely trying to get an understanding of the issue. If you have equations or empirical data, I would kindly request that you post it. If not, I will adjust the weight I give your claims accordingly.

Thank you kindly.

Even in college we did not focus on the numbers but on understanding the concepts & principals

There is very very much going on at & during contact especially for an off center hit.

Do you have any background with physics concepts & principals?
 
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KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Always when I hear this I think to myself let me pick your arrows.

To this day no one has ever taken me up on my challenge to play a money match if I am allowed to pick their cue. I have said it will conform 100% to BCA specifications.

Still no one wants to try me that way, I wonder why?

How about I pick the player, and you can pick any cue in the world he can use, any cue, and I will play him for his house, car, first born, etc ;)

I just think good indians like things their way, to their liking and feel and makes them more comfortable. And in a game of inches, every millimeter counts. Bugs shot with house cues most of his life, with many borrowed cues thrown here and there.

This does not mean I don't prefer LD shafts, i can play with standard maple, I just prefer one over the other, and I believe I'm a tad more consistent. I've had monster players on my teams over the years, sometimes coming right from work, they'd just take one of my old cues and go to town. Granted, I always kept decent tips on them and the shafts were always pretty darn clean, I'm pretty sure they'd rather have their cue, but I saw no noticeable difference in their game.
 

Corwyn_8

Energy Curmudgeon
Silver Member
Even in college we did not focus on the numbers but on understanding the concepts & principals

There is very very much going on at & during contact especially for an off center hit.

Do you have any background with physics concepts & principals?

Yes. The difference is I don't think my education in physics entitles me to qualify my opinion as informed, until I have actually done the analysis.

Thank You Kindly.

p.s. did you really want to get into a education level pissing contest with me when we have a professor of mechanical engineering in the discussion?
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Y

p.s. did you really want to get into a education level pissing contest with me when we have a professor of mechanical engineering in the discussion?

You're really asking this question to Mr. Billiards Know-it-all Extraordinaire ?
Of course he does, he took a high school class 40 years ago, can you top that ;)
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Yes. The difference is I don't think my education in physics entitles me to qualify my opinion as informed, until I have actually done the analysis.

Thank You Kindly.

p.s. did you really want to get into a education level pissing contest with me when we have a professor of mechanical engineering in the discussion?

Did I ask you anything about your education level?

Did I denigrate your level of education when I did not even know what it is?

I did not know anything about you.

You could have a doctorate in biology & not have much of or any knowledge of physics concepts or principals at all.

I merely asked you a simple question.

If you have the knowledge that you say you have, then you do not need any 'formulas' from me.

Thank You 'Kindly'.

PS I did notice your recent join date & how much you know about one of our members, not that that means anything... I just noticed it.
 
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DTL

SP 219
Silver Member
Did I ask you anything about your education level?

Did I denigrate your level of education when I did not even know what it is?

I did not know anything about you.

You could have a doctorate in biology & not have much of or any knowledge of physics concepts or principals at all.

I merely asked you a simple question.

If you have the knowledge that you say you have, then you do not need any 'formulas' from me.

Thank You 'Kindly'.

PS I did notice your recent join date & how much you know about one of our members, not that that means anything... I just noticed it. Yes it does, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. lol

No way......ENGLISH! in another thread arguing with some of the other posters. :rolleyes:
 

SplicedPoints

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Didn't bother to go through the 6 pages.
There is no need to argue physics.

If you've played enough pool with enough cues & tips & shafts, you should know the answer without asking. It's pretty self-explanatory.
 
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