Question for Pool Hall Owner/Operators

DelaWho??? · Mar 10, 2006

I have a dream of opening a pool hall nothing huge 5000 square feet or so. I figure that's big enough for 10 nine footers 6 eight footers and 2 seven footers with room to spare for bathrooms an office and a bar area.

My problem is I haven't a clue where to start. I have some great ideas and the nearest good pool hall is 20 miles away.

I'd be interested in hearing about what's involved in starting up/operating a pool room. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Banger McCue

ScottW · Mar 10, 2006

I'm in the same boat, so I'd love to hear what folks have to say as well.

Jack Madden · Mar 10, 2006

You probably better see if you have the "pool player" population in your area to support a room this size. And do you need to add food/drink to the equation to support the room? I always wanted to start a room, had the tables and even looked over the "books" of one for sale. Never found the right combination that I thought would work for me.
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com

ccn7 · Mar 10, 2006

i have pondered this dream many times myself. My closest pool hall is 80 miles away. One thing i'd like to know can you make it from just pool alone.In a small town of less than 15,000 you would probably need to make it a family freindly pool hall. All we have now are a few bars with tables (2) , our bowling alley recently closed with not much chance of reopening.They had 4 tables two in the bar and 2 outside the bar for minors which always seemed to be very busy.As i was typing this i see J.Madden added some info thanks Jack.

thebestpoolroom · Mar 10, 2006

DelaWho??? said:
I have a dream of opening a pool hall nothing huge 5000 square feet or so. I figure that's big enough for 10 nine footers 6 eight footers and 2 seven footers with room to spare for bathrooms an office and a bar area.

My problem is I haven't a clue where to start. I have some great ideas and the nearest good pool hall is 20 miles away.

I'd be interested in hearing about what's involved in starting up/operating a pool room. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Banger McCue

I don't think you can fit 18 pool tables comfortably in a 5000 sq. ft. room with a bar, front counter, bathroom, kitchen, office. You need to accurately measure every little thing that you can think of.

John

CaptiveBred · Mar 10, 2006

If you want to make some cash or even stay in business, you need a liquor license. All the pool halls I've been to that had a liquor license were doing well. Some real well and others were doing good enough. The rooms that just sell pool, go out of business.

I'd start a room if I had the cash to obtain the liquor license. The rest is easy...

OldHasBeen · Mar 10, 2006

How to do this..

Without Booze and Food - You have NO chance.
Next - Figure out how much it will cost to open the doors and operate it for 1 year with NO income. Then triple that and don't think any further if you don't have at least that much.
Next - Find the best Bar/ Restaurant manager you can find and steal him/her away.
Next - Find out how to run you own In-House leagues.
Last but not least - Remember your running a business and not a pool room.

TY &

cuejoey · Mar 10, 2006

make sure the property is ZONED for a hall and a liquor business.also do you have enough parking ? if not the overflow can go into a residential neighborhood and problems will begin .with complaints about noise,parking ect..then after you have all the money in the building the city could shut you down as a nusience.be careful and ask many questions to everyone inspectors,police ,fire depts.ect.

ScottW · Mar 10, 2006

From what I've been told, the liquor license is one of the toughest issues. I know it varies from area to area... but in general, what would one expect to have to go through to obtain one?

One friend told me that in my area, it takes forever (about three years, he said) to obtain a new license - his recommendation was to find someone with an existing license and obtain theirs.

DelaWho??? · Mar 10, 2006

Wow alot of quick responses ..... guess I'm not the only one who has "the dream" ....

I've given thought to this for quite some time....and where I'm located is on the edge of two different tournament leagues.....Planet/Tiger and Blaze.....so I figure If I can be a tour stop that will help alot......

The problem with having a bar is that you exclude the under 21 crowd and around here there is not much for them to do.....so the place has to be divided into an under 21 no alcohol open to the public pool hall .....and an over 21 "members only club" ....I'll go into some details about this "club" in a moment....

So with 5000 sq ft of space the open to the public area will get 3000 of it. Now I did some research on the recommended square footage for a table (on Brunswick site) and based on raw square footage you can fit 20 9' or 22 8' or 24 7' tables in the 5000sq' space with the recommended clearance around the table.

3000 sq' is 6 - 9' 4 - 8' and 2 7' with 152sq' left for the front counter bathrooms and vending machines (drinks chips that kind of thing)

2000 sq' private club supports 4 - 9' and 2 - 8' tables with 532 sq' for an office a bar and bathrooms.....

Give or take a table or two the math is right....regardless the concept remains the same...

The "backroom club" is an over 21 club that can be joined on a monthly/annual basis (read constant revenue stream) The club will have certain benefits like access to the premium tables in the back.....the ability to bring your own liquor or beer on site and being a private club voids any state smoking ban...so with a couple of good smoke eaters (I hate a smokey room) the smokers can have a place to shoot without bothering any nearby non smokers......Of Course There Would Be NO SMOKING AT THE TABLES........no one likes an ashy felt.....

Anyway just a couple of thoughts....I'll fill in more club details later this is getting to be a long post

Banger

JG-in-KY · Mar 10, 2006

Here's a couple of things off the top of my head I would look out for:
**As with any business - location, location, location

**As other have said, Just making it on the pool is tough, if not impossible. Food, drinks, pro shop plus other diversions - Juke box, darts, Golden T and other games.

**Make sure you have the funds. Under funded business' have killed me, many times. As a general rule I like to have three months of capital (6 would be really nice) for overhead to cover everything if you don't make a dime.

**When you are scouting for a location check for zoning laws, applicable licenses'(business, liquor, food, entertainment, etc.)

**Check to see who your nearest competitor is, and check out some other successfull rooms.

**Check on costs of insurance, taxes, security and all utilities. Try to keep your overhead as low as possible.

**Don't be afraid to try new things and most importantly treat the customer right!

nfty9er · Mar 10, 2006

From an owner

DelaWho??? said:
I have a dream of opening a pool hall nothing huge 5000 square feet or so. I figure that's big enough for 10 nine footers 6 eight footers and 2 seven footers with room to spare for bathrooms an office and a bar area.

My problem is I haven't a clue where to start. I have some great ideas and the nearest good pool hall is 20 miles away.

I'd be interested in hearing about what's involved in starting up/operating a pool room. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Banger McCue

Your eyes are bigger than your stomach. Trying to fit that many tables in that space is insane. You need area for seating, the bar should be decent size. The bathrooms a decent size. You need room for serving tables and areas to wait for tables. I suggest you cut the tables down. Your laws probably differ so what I say may not mean much. But in Calif. you can have beer only and anyone can come in. With beer and wine you must have a restaurant. Beer is plenty for liquor. Hard liquor requires over 21 unless you have a restaurant. Hard liquor is a problem in a pool room. I have beer and wine and hardly have any problems and it has been that way for 26 years. Check out fasteddysbilliards.com (search for pictures under facilities) the downstairs is exactly 5000 ft. and I have 11 tables on the floor with 8 more upstairs. Actually now I have 20 as I took out a 9ft and put in two bar tables so picture is out of date. However I also have video games. Remember people have to be comfortable and not bored whilehanging out.

Flex · Mar 10, 2006

CaptiveBred said:
If you want to make some cash or even stay in business, you need a liquor license. All the pool halls I've been to that had a liquor license were doing well. Some real well and others were doing good enough. The rooms that just sell pool, go out of business.

I'd start a room if I had the cash to obtain the liquor license. The rest is easy...

I beg to differ! Chicago Billiards Cafe has no liquor license, and it sure seems to be doing just fine. They have a pretty good menu, and the owner is great. They have daily specials, and a very well attended handicapped 9-ball tournament. Strong players abound. Family friendly environment, too.

Flex

CaptiveBred · Mar 10, 2006

Flex said:
I beg to differ! Chicago Billiards Cafe has no liquor license, and it sure seems to be doing just fine. They have a pretty good menu, and the owner is great. They have daily specials, and a very well attended handicapped 9-ball tournament. Strong players abound. Family friendly environment, too.

Flex

Of course there is always unique cases. That place is the exception rather than the rule. Its pretty rare for a pool room to do well withought the drinks.

Its like a strip club. 18 and up clubs can make cash and even do well but you rarely see em. 21 and up do MUCH better. Owning a strip club with liquor is like winning the lottery. Owning one without, is a bit risky.

On a related note, I enjoy the 18+ more than 21+. Most states allow full removal of clothing if no drinks are being served. Pure topless entertainment value is not even close to the full experience

Poolhalljunkie · Mar 10, 2006

enough room?

In my head just for table space you would need 6000 Sq FT for 20 9' tables and that is just the tables that gives you about 5 feet between them I would like another 4-6000 feet for other things such as seating bars and kitchen, also tv lounge to catch the game, also an area for bands.

just my .02

thebestpoolroom · Mar 11, 2006

From an another owner

In order to be successful in the pool room business, you need/know the following:

* Find a GREAT G.M.
* Bar with beer and liquor
* Good bartenders
* Good wait staff
* Good manager
* Kitchen with quality food (it doesn't have to be a big menu)
* Good equipment
* Keep your place clean
* Inventory control
* Promo team
* Good Pro-Shop
* Plenty of room in between tables (min. 6 feet)
* Comfortable counters and sitting areas
* Security to enforce your rules
* It's hard work
* 24/7 job
* Get support from your family (you will be away from them)
* Prepare to make a lot of sacrafices in both your personal and family life

There are a lot more but I can't think of them right now. It's 5:20 AM. We've just finished cleaning/closing. I'm very tired. If I think of more, I will be more than happy to share with Y'ALL.

JOHN

DelaWho??? · Mar 11, 2006

Thanks for the great responses everyone........A note about the number of tables..........I went to Brunswick site and did a little math in their pool room calculator......My number of tables was based on 252 sq' for a 9' 230 sq' for an 8' and 208 sq' for a 7. For the purposes of the discussion the actual number of tables isn't important.....Obviously I don't want people shooting in a Sardine can.....

I ws trying to Keep It Simple as a concept.....I'd like to serve drinks.....and snacks.....If I don't have a kitchen then I don't have to have cooks and wait staff....you can just go to the bar to get another drink....or maybe we'll have a couple of cocktail waitresses to help serve drinks....

What does every one think about the over 21 "backroom" club..? The idea here is to get around having a liquor license and would get around the smoking ban here in Delaware......Think VFW or Moose Lodge type of thing....I know the bring your own bottle works....as it's the way it is in alot of S.Carolina which has some strange liquor laws......

The thing I'd like the opinions on is the idea of a club membership....like joining a gym.......The establishment (me) gets predictable steady revenue stream and the customer gets benefits like ..... Xhrs of free table time per week/month with discounted table time rates (after free time is used) access to the premium tables in the back room, bring your own beverage rights (we'll lable it and store it on site).... In general depending on whether you're a monthly or an annual member you'll get discounts and rights that non members don't get....

Thanks again everyone for the helpful replies

Banger

ScottW · Mar 11, 2006

My only real worry, local-law-wise here in Boulder, is the smoking ordinances. Doesn't bother ME at all since I don't smoke

But the way things work here is, either the whole place is smoke-free, or a separate, self-enclosed smoking section is allowed.

All I'd have to do here is put a few tables in a separate room to accomodate the smokers. Several places around here do this, with all/part glass walls between, so you can see in/out without worry. I'd still put a smoke-eater on the ceiling.

As far as my situation, otherwise - I'm eyeing a spot in a new shopping area they're currently building out in Boulder, right on the main drag. They razed an old shopping mall, which had died off due to the opening of a much newer one a few miles away a few years ago, and are now building this one up to be much more open-air, with lots of parking. There are several 10,000+/- sq. ft. (as in, barely over/under 10k) units listed on the development's website - and this seems like an ideal size and location to me.

sixpack · Mar 11, 2006

ScottW said:
My only real worry, local-law-wise here in Boulder, is the smoking ordinances. Doesn't bother ME at all since I don't smoke But the way things work here is, either the whole place is smoke-free, or a separate, self-enclosed smoking section is allowed.

All I'd have to do here is put a few tables in a separate room to accomodate the smokers. Several places around here do this, with all/part glass walls between, so you can see in/out without worry. I'd still put a smoke-eater on the ceiling.

As far as my situation, otherwise - I'm eyeing a spot in a new shopping area they're currently building out in Boulder, right on the main drag. They razed an old shopping mall, which had died off due to the opening of a much newer one a few miles away a few years ago, and are now building this one up to be much more open-air, with lots of parking. There are several 10,000+/- sq. ft. (as in, barely over/under 10k) units listed on the development's website - and this seems like an ideal size and location to me.

Ah...the old crossroads mall eh? Is Quinn's on the hill still there?

Seems like the mall area might be good, definitely needs to be walking distance to CU, if you're in a college area, might as well take advantage of it. Too bad they still don't have 3.2 beer places there, that would have been ideal for a college pool hall.

I've found a few of the room owners in Denver to be very helpful with advice and might even offer to partner with you once you get to know them. I would recommend asking for their advice/input if you're on friendly terms with them.

Cheers,
RC

jay helfert · Mar 11, 2006

JG-in-KY said:
Here's a couple of things off the top of my head I would look out for:
**As with any business - location, location, location

**As other have said, Just making it on the pool is tough, if not impossible. Food, drinks, pro shop plus other diversions - Juke box, darts, Golden T and other games.

**Make sure you have the funds. Under funded business' have killed me, many times. As a general rule I like to have three months of capital (6 would be really nice) for overhead to cover everything if you don't make a dime.

**When you are scouting for a location check for zoning laws, applicable licenses'(business, liquor, food, entertainment, etc.)

**Check to see who your nearest competitor is, and check out some other successfull rooms.

**Check on costs of insurance, taxes, security and all utilities. Try to keep your overhead as low as possible.

**Don't be afraid to try new things and most importantly treat the customer right!

This is the best response i've seen on here.

Question for Pool Hall Owner/Operators

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Fo' shizzle!

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Banger McCue

Fo' shizzle!

AzB Silver Member

Shoot Pool, not people