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strmanglr scott
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10-21-2015, 04:44 PM

All shafts deflect. Arguments?

Once the basics of English are learned(can pocket well w English and get position) just using the same cue is the most important thing. Because all sticks deflect the fine tuning is learning ur own cue. Imo, doesn't matter how much it deflects.

I use a "claimed" low deflection shaft, doesn't mean I can't use a straight well tipped bar cue and do well. Miss percentage difference would be nominal I'm guessing, for a pro I bet it would get real slim.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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10-21-2015, 06:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by strmanglr scott View Post
Imo, doesn't matter how much it deflects.
It can matter depending on how you compensate for squirt.

If you like to use backhand English (aim centerball and then pivot at the bridge to apply side spin), then higher squirt cues will probably be best for you.

If you like to just get down on the shot with your stick already angled to compensate for squirt (or if you like to use "fronthand" English), then lower squirt cues will probably be better.

pj
chgo
  
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punching with your knuckles / max. Cue Ball Penetration
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CJ Wiley
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Arrow punching with your knuckles / max. Cue Ball Penetration - 10-22-2015, 01:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by strmanglr scott View Post
All shafts deflect. Arguments?

Once the basics of English are learned(can pocket well w English and get position) just using the same cue is the most important thing. Because all sticks deflect the fine tuning is learning ur own cue. Imo, doesn't matter how much it deflects.

I use a "claimed" low deflection shaft, doesn't mean I can't use a straight well tipped bar cue and do well. Miss percentage difference would be nominal I'm guessing, for a pro I bet it would get real slim.
When your stroke is highly developed the Deflection is reduced. This is why it's essential to use the upper edge of your cue's tip......Buddy Hall brought this to my attention when I was in my early 20s and it made a significant difference.

For the most accurate cue ball contact it's essential to use the smaller area of your tip....it's like punching something with your knuckles, rather than a flat fist. The effect is dramatically amplified, and cue ball's response is noticeability different.

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10-22-2015, 01:30 AM

I still don't get it. Why all the hating or posts about "my shaft is good enough as I can compensate"? That's not really the topic here

Tell a Carom player to play with a regular (high squirt) shaft and he will look at you funnily. They are used to using very exact equipment as playing spin is their first nature.
Try maximum right spin and then hit a ball thin over the full table.
My carom playing has taken off since I've changed to a (only a lowly) Tiger LD shaft.

Of course you need to adjust your aiming as you will have to compensate less. That doesn't mean it's the fault of the shaft, it's your fault as you're used to aim funnily

@Patrick: Exactly, thank you!

I will never ever want to play with a RS shaft again.

Cheers,
M

Last edited by M.G.; 10-22-2015 at 01:35 AM.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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10-22-2015, 01:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
When your stroke is highly developed the Deflection is reduced.
At risk of repeating myself, nonsense.

pj
chgo
  
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10-22-2015, 07:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
At risk of repeating myself, nonsense.

pj
chgo
How is it nonsense? Of course with a better stroke will come less deflection because your impact point will be more defined. Meaning, less "off" hits, due to a stroke that is somewhat sloppy. And furthermore, why don't you show some respect to a professional player? He has accomplished more in pool by the time he hit his 20's, than you will during your entire lifetime. That is also NOT nonsense.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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10-22-2015, 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXGEARXx View Post
How is it nonsense? Of course with a better stroke will come less deflection because your impact point will be more defined. Meaning, less "off" hits, due to a stroke that is somewhat sloppy.
That's not what he meant, but that's even worse nonsense. A bad stroke is just as likely to be closer to center as farther.

Quote:
And furthermore, why don't you show some respect to a professional player? He has accomplished more in pool by the time he hit his 20's, than you will during your entire lifetime. That is also NOT nonsense.
I'm not responding to "professional player" CJ (good for him); I'm responding to "doesn't know what he's talking about" CJ - we've seen a lot of him around here.

pj <- and whoever you are, of course
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10-22-2015, 08:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
At risk of repeating myself, nonsense.

pj
chgo
Like Neil, you are taking him literally from a 'book worm' perspective.

Players know what he means, especially if kept in full context vs a single statement taken out of context.

But... I agree with you that that could be very confusing to very many.

He should respond & expand on his meaning.
  
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10-22-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXGEARXx View Post
How is it nonsense? Of course with a better stroke will come less deflection because your impact point will be more defined. Meaning, less "off" hits, due to a stroke that is somewhat sloppy. And furthermore, why don't you show some respect to a professional player? He has accomplished more in pool by the time he hit his 20's, than you will during your entire lifetime. That is also NOT nonsense.
  
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10-22-2015, 08:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
Nope, STILL don't know what he's talking about. Stick the ball in the hole. It really isn't that difficult.
He's trying to make a simple game so complicated that people will feel the need to buy the materials he sells.
slick marketing.
I know I'm going to get flamed for this.
Go ahead, do it.


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The Truth: If you have a stroke the gear don't matter... If you don't have a stroke the gear won't help.
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10-22-2015, 08:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Joegolf View Post
I'm new here and certainly don't want any heat. I've just purchased CJ's DVDs and after 50 years of play I'm still trying to learn. Unfortunately I haven't been able to take the touch of inside to the tables yet but the DVDs have given me a renewed excitement for learning the game. I'll have my new table in a couple of weeks and I certainly am going to give CJs system a workout. His logic makes sense in every way. I'm glad that I bought the videos and believe they will take me to a better level.


Hi Joe,

Have you spent 3 hours straight hitting every shot with TOI?

If not, I would recommend doing so even before you get the DVDs.

Like you, I had played for 45 years before reading of CJ's version of TOI here.

I think the 3 hours with nothing but TOI will be beneficial to you.

Good Luck with it & do take CJ up on any support as he gave me a tip in private that helped me to utilize it properly when I was having an initial issue.

Best Wishes,
Rick
  
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10-22-2015, 08:41 AM

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Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
Players know what he means...
lol

pj <- please don't explain
chgo
  
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10-22-2015, 09:13 AM

Ok Here is my thought about "low deflection shaft":

1. Is it an improvement comparing to standard/traditional shaft => YES (Is a 2015 Ferrari better than a 2000 Ferrari => YES)
2. Will it make you play better? DEPENDS on you (Think about this: you use a 2015 Ferrari, a skilled racer uses a 2000 Ferrari, you guys both go in for a race (not in straight road) then who is going to win: a skilled racer for sure. But let's say if it was a skilled driver who use the 2015 Ferrari then he has a very good chance to win)
3. Should I buy it? YES if you have money and can afford it, buy it, practice and see what you will get.
  
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strmanglr scott
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10-22-2015, 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
It can matter depending on how you compensate for squirt.

If you like to use backhand English (aim centerball and then pivot at the bridge to apply side spin), then higher squirt cues will probably be best for you.

If you like to just get down on the shot with your stick already angled to compensate for squirt (or if you like to use "fronthand" English), then lower squirt cues will probably be better.

pj
chgo
It isn't about what cue does what. A player can consciously learn English. The deflection varies based on many things. The player will subconsciously learn their cue. Regardless if its LD or hd
  
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10-22-2015, 10:47 AM

I am one of those old school cuemakers who thinks tight grain maple has the over all best feel for playing pool and the cue ball action can be increased or decreased for a player by the right tip/ferrule combo. But the down side is that most cuemakers cannot use only tight grain maple or they would have to get rid of a huge percentage of their maple for other purposes besides shafts, as only a small percentage will have over 15 grain lines per inch. So the pie shaped laminates came along trying to get the same hit all the time that mother nature produces at its best in tight grain maple. The problem that was found is they were a little stiffer than natural tight grain maple, so they hollowed out the end of the shaft a little to make them play a little less stiff. They have managed to produce shafts that play fairly consistent and that is important. So I think as a whole laminated LD shafts are a good thing. But I still think natural tight grain maple grown in the right locations is the way to go when possible.

That is my take on it and I hope it is not offensive to anyone as it was not intended to be.
  
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