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BCA rule for pocketing ball with arm, clothing?
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BCA rule for pocketing ball with arm, clothing? - 10-16-2019, 12:34 PM

So this has come up in our league a few times and nobody seems to know the exact ruling.

A few years ago a guy pocketed the 8 ball (which was hanging in the side pocket) with his jacket while shooting another ball.

Last night, a guy accidentally sank his opponent's ball with his hand while shooting another ball.

On both occasions it was ruled that the ball should come back up and be re-spotted where the opponent thought it was. However, some people think it should be a foul. Nobody can seem to find the answer in the rule book.

I personally think it should be a foul in that if you jump a ball off the table it is a foul- so rolling a ball into a pocket accidentally also should seeing that it is off the table.
  
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10-16-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoast View Post
So this has come up in our league a few times and nobody seems to know the exact ruling.

A few years ago a guy pocketed the 8 ball (which was hanging in the side pocket) with his jacket while shooting another ball.

Last night, a guy accidentally sank his opponent's ball with his hand while shooting another ball.

On both occasions it was ruled that the ball should come back up and be re-spotted where the opponent thought it was. However, some people think it should be a foul. Nobody can seem to find the answer in the rule book.

I personally think it should be a foul in that if you jump a ball off the table it is a foul- so rolling a ball into a pocket accidentally also should seeing that it is off the table.
I don't know the exact call, but I would assume it would come back and spotted by the opponent as long as all other BIH rules apply. Personally, I agree that it should be BIH, but for a different reason. I believe it should be all ball foul rules even in league play. It's not like there are 5-year-olds playing the game. All adults should be aware and disciplined enough to play "official" pro rules. There is no excuse in my book, but try telling that to the snowflake world we live in today. I also don't believe in handicapping people, but then people would cry and quit. Again, stupid soft world we live in.


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10-16-2019, 12:53 PM

Is the rule All Ball or Cue Ball fouls?

Seems simple enough if you have rules established.


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10-16-2019, 12:55 PM

This kind of stuff is almost always in the BCAPL rules here: https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html

Quote:
1-33 Disturbed Balls (Cue Ball Fouls Only) (AR p. 91)
1. During a game, it is not a foul if you accidentally touch or move a single stationary object ball with any part of your body, clothing or equipment, unless the disturbed ball has an effect on the outcome of the shot.
2. "Effect on the outcome of the shot" means that either the disturbed ball contacts any ball set in motion as a result of the shot, or that the base of any ball set in motion as a result of the shot passes through the area originally occupied by the disturbed ball. That area is defined as a circle approximately seven inches in diameter centered on the position originally occupied by the disturbed ball (see Diagram 6).
3. If a disturbed ball has no effect on the outcome of the shot, your opponent has the option to leave the disturbed ball where it came to rest or to restore it to its original position before the next shot. If the disturbed ball is to be restored, a referee may restore it, your opponent may restore it, or you may restore it with your opponent’s permission. It is a foul if you touch or restore the disturbed ball without your opponent's permission.
4. It is a foul if a disturbed ball has an effect on the outcome of the shot. Your opponent has no restoration option.
5. If you disturb a single object ball and, in the same shot, commit a foul that is not related to the disturbed ball: you are penalized for the foul, and your opponent has the restoration option for the disturbed ball that was not involved in the foul.
6. If a single disturbed ball falls into a pocket with no effect on the outcome of a shot, your opponent has the restoration option. However, if the disturbed ball is designated by specific game rules as the game winning ball, it must be restored. If the game-winning ball is disturbed and falls into a pocket when there is an effect on the outcome of the shot, it is loss of game.
7. It is a foul if:
a. you disturb the cue ball;
b. you disturb more than one object ball; c. a disturbed ball contacts any other ball; d. you disturb a ball that is in motion.
Your opponent has no restoration option. If the game-winning ball is disturbed in conjunction with a violation of (a) through (d) and falls into a pocket, it is loss of game.
  
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10-16-2019, 01:11 PM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
This kind of stuff is almost always in the BCAPL rules here: https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html
We couldn't find that- thanks for posting it
  
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10-16-2019, 01:19 PM

lol that was me. I told ya'll it wasn't a foul haha. We ended up replaying the game and I lost so justice was served


thats just like, your opinion man
  
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10-16-2019, 01:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason View Post
I don't know the exact call, but I would assume it would come back and spotted by the opponent as long as all other BIH rules apply. Personally, I agree that it should be BIH, but for a different reason. I believe it should be all ball foul rules even in league play. It's not like there are 5-year-olds playing the game. All adults should be aware and disciplined enough to play "official" pro rules. There is no excuse in my book, but try telling that to the snowflake world we live in today. I also don't believe in handicapping people, but then people would cry and quit. Again, stupid soft world we live in.
I agree totally. I hate cueball fouls only. Man up!


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10-16-2019, 01:39 PM

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Originally Posted by highkarate View Post
lol that was me. I told ya'll it wasn't a foul haha. We ended up replaying the game and I lost so justice was served
You were right! I wasn't on the opposing team- we were on the other table. Actually, I was playing at the time that all the yelling was going on! Not the greatest playing environment

The one with the 8 ball being sunk with a jacket was against our team years ago. Nobody could seem to find the relevant rule in the book. Now we know!
  
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10-16-2019, 02:35 PM

You asked about BCA Rules which are WPA Rules.
The opponent has the right to replace or let lie. No FOUL, Game continues.
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10-16-2019, 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoast View Post
So this has come up in our league a few times and nobody seems to know the exact ruling.

A few years ago a guy pocketed the 8 ball (which was hanging in the side pocket) with his jacket while shooting another ball.

Last night, a guy accidentally sank his opponent's ball with his hand while shooting another ball.

On both occasions it was ruled that the ball should come back up and be re-spotted where the opponent thought it was. However, some people think it should be a foul. Nobody can seem to find the answer in the rule book.

I personally think it should be a foul in that if you jump a ball off the table it is a foul- so rolling a ball into a pocket accidentally also should seeing that it is off the table.
As with all questions like this, when you say, “BCA,” I have to assume you are asking about BCAPL (BCA Pool League), which is under the CSI (Cue Sports International). So look at the CSI Ruleset (which someone has copied and pasted).

However, if you really mean “BCA,” which would be a bit unusual today, then you can look at the BCA trade show site, but BCA rules are the same as WSR (World Standardized Rules), so you can look at the WPA (World Pool Billiard Association) Ruleset.


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10-16-2019, 06:42 PM

While the rule book is clear, it is a bit perplexing why sinking a ball with your sleeve, hand, or stick isn’t a foul while hitting a ball off the table is a foul. In both circumstances the ball left the table accidentally- shouldn’t the consequence be the same?
  
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10-16-2019, 06:52 PM

A ball that leaves the table effects the outcome of the shot.


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10-17-2019, 06:44 AM

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Originally Posted by cuenut View Post
I agree totally. I hate cueball fouls only. Man up!
Without a ref watching, all ball fouls are not easy to use. Let's say I am over a ball and my opponent tells me I touched a ball. I did not see or feel the touch, the other guy is 10,15 feet away in a chair. Who gets the call? I may have touched it, he may have through I touched it due to the angle he had, what if we don't like each-other?


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10-17-2019, 06:48 AM

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Originally Posted by westcoast View Post
While the rule book is clear, it is a bit perplexing why sinking a ball with your sleeve, hand, or stick isn’t a foul while hitting a ball off the table is a foul. In both circumstances the ball left the table accidentally- shouldn’t the consequence be the same?
Leaving the table is not quite the same thing as falling into a pocket, because there are actual holes in the table. It's like eating your food or throwing it out the window, in both cases it's gone, but because of two totally different situations. The rails on the table are there to prevent a ball from leaving it, the holes in the table are there to accept pocketed balls. In one case you are going against the design of the table, in the other, the table is just physically allowing the ball to drop.


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10-17-2019, 07:14 AM

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Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
Without a ref watching, all ball fouls are not easy to use. Let's say I am over a ball and my opponent tells me I touched a ball. I did not see or feel the touch, the other guy is 10,15 feet away in a chair. Who gets the call? I may have touched it, he may have through I touched it due to the angle he had, what if we don't like each-other?
That’s how I see it.


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