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07-19-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secaucus Fats View Post
I'm gonna have to go with Alfredo de Oro. The man's record speaks for itself, and he held multiple world championships in pool AND billiards.
Something the record books don't tell you is that De Oro never lost many of those championships , whenever he became champion of 3 cushion he was stripped of his pocket billiard title and vice versa. there was a 20 year period when he almost never lost at any game , he even went to England and defeated John Roberts at English Billiards when he was still a great player.
Walter Lindrum was also the most dominant at 1 game , nobody ever came close to playing as good as he did. Tom Reece had a 200,000 point run but it was with the balls jawed in a corner and he just shot caroms back and forth across them for 2 weeks.
There are some videos on You Tube of Walter, he makes it look ridiculously easy.
I did about 20 years worth of research on every player who ever lived and DeOro wins the overall and Lindrum one specific game for me.
If you don't think Greenleaf could play , look at all the tournaments he played in and never missed a called ball the whole tournament!
Do you think they were all hangers?

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Most .............. - 07-22-2011, 07:03 PM

I think today's Promoters or organizers or Pros could take a lesson from the way Championships were held years ago. They use to have a World Championship Pool League where all the players would play each other multiple times in numerous cities, with the best record being the Champ. Plus, all those matches were held in poolrooms. Talk about taking the Sport to the public? How much of a success would that be Today?

Let alone having the 16 best players in the World playing round robin once or twice a year to determine who is best. Again, held at a grass roots level of the pool room.

If there would be formats of that kind, we might actually be able to truly have a most dominating player Today.

But, Yawn, same old double elimiation, time after time.
  
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07-24-2011, 02:57 PM

Greatest To Ever Hold A Stick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Ceulemans
  
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07-25-2011, 05:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat1953 View Post
I think today's Promoters or organizers or Pros could take a lesson from the way Championships were held years ago. They use to have a World Championship Pool League where all the players would play each other multiple times in numerous cities, with the best record being the Champ. Plus, all those matches were held in poolrooms. Talk about taking the Sport to the public? How much of a success would that be Today?

Let alone having the 16 best players in the World playing round robin once or twice a year to determine who is best. Again, held at a grass roots level of the pool room.

If there would be formats of that kind, we might actually be able to truly have a most dominating player Today.

But, Yawn, same old double elimiation, time after time.
Well, one thing is for sure, it is not really working the way it is now. Pool really has not grown much since when I began to play. Actually it seems to have gone down (popularity wise) in the past 10 years. I know this is a nation wide thing, but like the local room I played in, when I was 14-17 it was full of people who played a pretty good speed, and many who were very interested in the game. Now, it is DEAD. Practicing at my local pool room is like practicing in my basement with no one at my house. That is my perception of it. Though the apa helps bring people into the sport a little.

I like your idea though...

BTW, the most dominating depends on what game is played. 14.1 though my money would have been on Mosconi.


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07-27-2011, 12:22 AM

In pool alone I'd have to go with Mosconi or Greenleaf, too close to call really but I think they're the only two really in the picture.

All cue games considered though, Walter Lindrum is the most dominant and by a large margin.
His autobiography by Andrew Rickett is a must read. It talks about his upbringing and how his father taught him to play and how diligent he was at such a young age. Basically Lindrum dominated to such a degree that he killed the sport. Joe Davis his main rival (if you can even call it a rivalry) popularized snooker and became champion at that because he knew he didn't have a prayer of ever winning a billiards title against Lindrum and he knew Lindrum would never have played snooker because he considered it far inferior a game compared to billiards. Davis was said something like "thank god Walter never took up snooker all we'd all be done".

Lindrum was so much better than the next best players that in exhibitions which took about 2 weeks to play, his opponents needed a 7,000 point spot and they usually still lost!

To put things into perspective, The highest any player besides Lindrum ever ran was 2,800.....Lindrum's high run was over 4,000 points.
Only a few players ever had a 2000 break (run)...(Davis never did) and the ones that did only did it once or maybe twice. Lindrum had over 40 runs of 2000 or more!

Lindrum was very firm in saying that it's what you put into the game that makes a champion, as opposed to natural talent. He always insisted that he was the best simply because he practiced way longer and harder than his competition. starting at a young age practiced at least 10 hours a day every day, sometimes 14 hours a day and he kept this up even after he was champion. If he missed a shot in competition he would practice it for 8 straight hours.

When asked if he thought anyone would ever reach his skill he said "no, because I really don't think anyone will put in the amount of practice that I have".

By the way, he played left-handed but was naturally righty.

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08-06-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby View Post
In pool alone I'd have to go with Mosconi or Greenleaf, too close to call really but I think they're the only two really in the picture.

All cue games considered though, Walter Lindrum is the most dominant and by a large margin.
His autobiography by Andrew Rickett is a must read. It talks about his upbringing and how his father taught him to play and how diligent he was at such a young age. Basically Lindrum dominated to such a degree that he killed the sport. Joe Davis his main rival (if you can even call it a rivalry) popularized snooker and became champion at that because he knew he didn't have a prayer of ever winning a billiards title against Lindrum and he knew Lindrum would never have played snooker because he considered it far inferior a game compared to billiards. Davis was said something like "thank god Walter never took up snooker all we'd all be done".

Lindrum was so much better than the next best players that in exhibitions which took about 2 weeks to play, his opponents needed a 7,000 point spot and they usually still lost!

To put things into perspective, The highest any player besides Lindrum ever ran was 2,800.....Lindrum's high run was over 4,000 points.
Only a few players ever had a 2000 break (run)...(Davis never did) and the ones that did only did it once or maybe twice. Lindrum had over 40 runs of 2000 or more!

Lindrum was very firm in saying that it's what you put into the game that makes a champion, as opposed to natural talent. He always insisted that he was the best simply because he practiced way longer and harder than his competition. starting at a young age practiced at least 10 hours a day every day, sometimes 14 hours a day and he kept this up even after he was champion. If he missed a shot in competition he would practice it for 8 straight hours.

When asked if he thought anyone would ever reach his skill he said "no, because I really don't think anyone will put in the amount of practice that I have".

By the way, he played left-handed but was naturally righty.
The only other players I ever heard of that not just beat the best opponents but crushed them is Efren Reyes. Efren won one of the DCC 1 Pocket tournaments and the guy he beat in the finals was minus balls for 3 games.
  
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08-07-2011, 12:00 AM

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Originally Posted by book collector View Post
The only other players I ever heard of that not just beat the best opponents but crushed them is Efren Reyes. Efren won one of the DCC 1 Pocket tournaments and the guy he beat in the finals was minus balls for 3 games.
I'd also say that Mosconi crushed his opponents in 14.1. If you look at the record of his challenge matches his dominance is clear. He beat Crane by scores like 2000-950, 3200-1700. He beat Caras and all the other top players by similar scores.
  
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08-07-2011, 01:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Bobby View Post
I'd also say that Mosconi crushed his opponents in 14.1. If you look at the record of his challenge matches his dominance is clear. He beat Crane by scores like 2000-950, 3200-1700. He beat Caras and all the other top players by similar scores.
Can you share your source please?
  
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08-07-2011, 10:42 AM

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Can you share your source please?
It's all on Charlie Ursitti's site, I can't remember the address but it's a great site.
  
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Most dominant player
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Most dominant player - 09-07-2011, 07:07 PM

((( )))
((( vernon elliott )))
((( )))
  
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Most dominant player
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Most dominant player - 09-07-2011, 07:10 PM

((( )))
((( VERNON ELLIOTT )))
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He was the BEST..............
Hell the pro's steered clear of this guy!
  
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09-08-2011, 08:04 PM

Also giving my vote for Walter. He ran 100 breaks so effortlessly and English Billiards is far from easy. After running a demontration 100 break in a video, the commentator asks "and how do you run a 1000" he replies "just run 9 more hundreds" lol. I'm still fighting to get a 60 break.

This is during an era where Tom Newman suggested deliberately breaking up top of the table position (the best place to be for English Billiards, kind of like the baulk line nurse) in order to maintain your concentration. They were that good, and Walter dominated them.

Alfredo seems to never get mentioned when you talk about all around players. He seems to be the original all around player.


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10-19-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby View Post
In pool alone I'd have to go with Mosconi or Greenleaf, too close to call really but I think they're the only two really in the picture.

All cue games considered though, Walter Lindrum is the most dominant and by a large margin.
His autobiography by Andrew Rickett is a must read. It talks about his upbringing and how his father taught him to play and how diligent he was at such a young age. Basically Lindrum dominated to such a degree that he killed the sport. Joe Davis his main rival (if you can even call it a rivalry) popularized snooker and became champion at that because he knew he didn't have a prayer of ever winning a billiards title against Lindrum and he knew Lindrum would never have played snooker because he considered it far inferior a game compared to billiards. Davis was said something like "thank god Walter never took up snooker all we'd all be done".

Lindrum was so much better than the next best players that in exhibitions which took about 2 weeks to play, his opponents needed a 7,000 point spot and they usually still lost!

To put things into perspective, The highest any player besides Lindrum ever ran was 2,800.....Lindrum's high run was over 4,000 points.
Only a few players ever had a 2000 break (run)...(Davis never did) and the ones that did only did it once or maybe twice. Lindrum had over 40 runs of 2000 or more!

Lindrum was very firm in saying that it's what you put into the game that makes a champion, as opposed to natural talent. He always insisted that he was the best simply because he practiced way longer and harder than his competition. starting at a young age practiced at least 10 hours a day every day, sometimes 14 hours a day and he kept this up even after he was champion. If he missed a shot in competition he would practice it for 8 straight hours.

When asked if he thought anyone would ever reach his skill he said "no, because I really don't think anyone will put in the amount of practice that I have".

By the way, he played left-handed but was naturally righty.
Actually Tom Reece ran 200 thousand once , took quite a few days to accomplish. He had the balls jawed in the corner and just kept going back and forth across them, even at that it would be difficult to do it that many times in succession, without getting bored or tired and making a slight mishit. After this they made the shot illegal.
Walter was the absolute best in my opinion at 1 game but De Oro beat everyone at everything, most of them, many times in a 20 plus year span.
  
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Tough call...
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Tough call... - 07-02-2012, 10:47 PM

If Willie and Ralph had competed during the same era I think they would have been challenging each other for the title every time. My vote would have to go to Ralph but I may be a little biased, lol!
As for semi modern day players, I would have to vote for Ben aka Bennie aka Bernie aka Vernon Elliott. Though he never to my knowledge competed for a title, ask some of the greats how they liked playing him for the cash.

RIP Vernon! You are missed!


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