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06-20-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
Bet Barton? Look if you have a problem with KC using Chinese labor (and they do not) why wouldn't you have a problem with Barton using Chinese labor? The only $10,000 bet I'll make is Barton is a disrespectful, vindictive, and hateful man! Visit his blog, he calls everyone but himself an a**hole and often tells them to go f themselves! He is undoubtedly a talented case maker, but he lacks the character to be a great case maker! Wanna bet?
LOL. Ok first of all the cues are Chinese. Roadie was trying to gently tell you that. So if you can't even figure that out we really don't have a discussion among equals here.

And you can't read because I call myself an asshole plenty of times. I am. I am not politically correct and don't align with cliques.

And anyone who deliberately goes out of their way to try to trash my business with a lie like Monstermash is doing can go off in a corner and pleasure themselves until their fingers bleed for all I care.

Trust me there is plenty that I suck at which deserves major criticism. Plenty of things I do that require major improvement.

One of them however is not that I develop a "character" that pleases you.


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06-21-2011, 05:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
I do not have any problem with anyone using Chinese labor or any labor except slave labor. In China the factory worker is free to come and go as they please just as they are in the USA. I assume that Mr. Barton pays his staff well as I know that most factories in China are facing labor shortages right now and wages have increased dramatically as a result.
I never said YOU did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
For KC Cues I have to say that I have never heard of them and I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about most cue brands. They claim to have been around since 1995 but I find no mention of them in my Blue Book, nor my Billiard Encyclopedia.
There are a lot of small cuebuilders that are NOT in either book. To the best of my knowledge, KC is a very small cuebuilder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
With a quick google search I didn't even come across the Alibaba listing you referenced. It is pretty much my experience that most of the listings in Alibaba are for companies from China and India.
I guess you do NOT know how to use the search engines very well. The listing is #6 on the 1st page.


KC CUSTOM POOL CUES products, buy KC CUSTOM POOL CUES products ...

KC CUSTOM POOL CUES, Find complete details about POOL CUE from KC Industries. You may also find other POOL CUE products or Snooker & Billiard Cues suppliers ...
www.alibaba.com › ... › Snooker & Billiard Cues - Cached - Similar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
I only sought to point out to you that using the description that you did is not proof that the cues are made in the USA. You will find many listings on Alibaba for goods which are claimed to be of US origin but are manufactured in China.
I said "It is my understanding..." I have yet to see ANYONE offer ANY proof to the contrary! That includes YOU. I called KC and was told the cues are manufactured in the US, in addition to the info on the internet. What have YOU done? Listen to Manwon who also cannot provide any proof to the contrary? Is it possible they may use parts from overseas? Sure, about 75% of American cuebuilders do the same! How many cues do YOU own? Although I have sold a good part of my collection because I'm disabled...I still have about 30. Three are KCs, and all are American made...at least until someone can prove otherwise. BTW, the only KC I use is the j/b which I find to be superior to the BK, Mezz, or Icebreaker (all imports), my players are PFD or Josey. I sell the other KCs to league players who are looking for good cue at a reasonable price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
As to the personal bias you show towards Mr. Barton I cannot say that he does not polarize people. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. If Mr. Barton's words are upsetting to you as it seems they are then by all means vocalize your displeasure.

He is however correct in pointing out that when you advocate buying American then perhaps it's best not to advertise your great experience with Chinese made pool cues.
My "bias" towards Barton is based on his demeanor and actions.

These forums are public and as such it is quite easy to form an opinion about someone by the way in which they handle themselves. When someone publishes comments about a friend, as Barton did both in his blog and here on AZ, I am compelled to give MY opinion...just as you may give yours. What do you say about a man (Barton in this case) that says:

"So the latest round of the Justis feud saw some idiot on AZB who calls himself Monstermash stating that his girlfriend bought a Sterling 2×3 in March at the Super Billiards Expo and that it can't be used as a 2×3 and it damaged her shafts when she tried to put three shafts in the case.

This guy is a liar and an asshole."


That Barton is a fine man, huh?

Read more if you like...it gets worse! http://jbcases.com/caseblog/2011/06/...pants-on-fire/

As for buying American...I am a disabled Vietnam Veteran! I can't always buy everything American but I certainly have the right to advocate it!!!


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06-21-2011, 06:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
LOL. Ok first of all the cues are Chinese. Roadie was trying to gently tell you that. So if you can't even figure that out we really don't have a discussion among equals here.

And you can't read because I call myself an asshole plenty of times. I am. I am not politically correct and don't align with cliques.

And anyone who deliberately goes out of their way to try to trash my business with a lie like Monstermash is doing can go off in a corner and pleasure themselves until their fingers bleed for all I care.

Trust me there is plenty that I suck at which deserves major criticism. Plenty of things I do that require major improvement.

One of them however is not that I develop a "character" that pleases you.
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.

To the best of my knowledge, MM did NOT "trash your business"! He had a problem with one of your CHEAP imported cases, and reviewed it in the appropriate forum. He even pointed out some of the good features of the case. However in YOUR usual fashion, you cannot stand ANY criticism whatsoever...so YOU trashed him! Shame on you!

If you had ANY character at all...you should be apologizing to Tom and all the members of AZ for you behavior...but I won't hold my breath.

FYI, Mr Barton...you will never need to develope a character that pleases me because I will NEVER be a customer of yours! The only case I ever had that I assume you designed, was a Jiasen (The Tiger) and I sold it a month after I bought it because I did NOT like the interior design!

You are a vindictive and hateful man! Fortunately, YOU have to live with it...not me. Have a nice day...


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Showcase Purpleheart Sneaky.
Chris Nitti Brunswick Conversion Cues...coming soon!
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06-21-2011, 06:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
I never said YOU did!



There are a lot of small cuebuilders that are NOT in either book. To the best of my knowledge, KC is a very small cuebuilder.
But they have been around since 1995 and advertise on Alibaba. Want to make a tiny bet that you won't find any other "small" American cue maker listed on Alibaba. I could not find any. http://www.alibaba.com/products/pool...-----50/3.html

The "best of your knoweldge" then is very limited or else you are very naive.

Quote:
I guess you do NOT know how to use the search engines very well. The listing is #6 on the 1st page.
I guess the "best of your knowledge" doesn't include the fact that search results come up different around the world. Who is being a nasty person now? And to someone you don't even know who has been polite to you? And you presume to tell me about character?

Quote:

KC CUSTOM POOL CUES products, buy KC CUSTOM POOL CUES products ...

KC CUSTOM POOL CUES, Find complete details about POOL CUE from KC Industries. You may also find other POOL CUE products or Snooker & Billiard Cues suppliers ...
www.alibaba.com › ... › Snooker & Billiard Cues - Cached - Similar


Quote:
I said "It is my understanding..." I have yet to see ANYONE offer ANY proof to the contrary! That includes YOU. I called KC and was told the cues are manufactured in the US, in addition to the info on the internet. What have YOU done? Listen to Manwon who also cannot provide any proof to the contrary? Is it possible they may use parts from overseas? Sure, about 75% of American cuebuilders do the same!
Well I can tell you that MY experience is that these cues are just like so many other cues made in China from the appearance and the way that the KC people handle their sales pitches and descriptions the signatures are all there. I also doubt that 75% of American cue makers are using parts sourced in China. If by overseas you mean things like Brazillian Rosewood, African Ebony etc... then sure 100% of cue makers are using parts from "overseas". Was that what you meant?


Quote:
How many cues do YOU own?
Well you didn't ask me this question but I will tell you the answer anyway, hundreds. From high end to low end. I have traveled the world with more than 50k in cues in my two dealer cases. I have been in dozens of cue makers shops and in several factories around the world. Do I qualify and get the cookie?


Quote:
Although I have sold a good part of my collection because I'm disabled...I still have about 30. Three are KCs, and all are American made...at least until someone can prove otherwise.
Well if the testimony from experts isn't enough then believe whatever the salesperson tells you. It's not like they are going to admit it to you when they are blatantly advertising something else.


Quote:
BTW, the only KC I use is the j/b which I find to be superior to the BK, Mezz, or Icebreaker (all imports), my players are PFD or Josey. I sell the other KCs to league players who are looking for good cue at a reasonable price.
Good for you. So IF you find out that the KC is actually Chinese then you will amend your Buy American stance into a Buy Quality stance right? Should I hold my breath on this?


Quote:
My "bias" towards Barton is based on his demeanor and actions.

These forums are public and as such it is quite easy to form an opinion about someone by the way in which they handle themselves.
So join the club. You think you are the first person who doesn't like me because of how I deal with people who attack me? Do you need a support group? Ask around and you will find it.


Quote:
When someone publishes comments about a friend, as Barton did both in his blog and here on AZ, I am compelled to give MY opinion
Compelled? Someone is twisting your arm and making you show off your ignorance?



Quote:
...just as you may give yours. What do you say about a man (Barton in this case) that says:

"So the latest round of the Justis feud saw some idiot on AZB who calls himself Monstermash stating that his girlfriend bought a Sterling 2×3 in March at the Super Billiards Expo and that it can't be used as a 2×3 and it damaged her shafts when she tried to put three shafts in the case.

This guy is a liar and an asshole."


That Barton is a fine man, huh?
Well I'd say that I laid it out pretty clearly without beating around the bush how I feel about the claim and the claimant. I guess you would prefer the sugarcoated politically correct version where I eviscerate him (rip him a new one) with flowery language instead.

Quote:
Read more if you like...it gets worse! http://jbcases.com/caseblog/2011/06/...pants-on-fire/
Depends on your point of view. From mine it gets better because more evidence is brought to light that further discredits your friend's claim.

Quote:
As for buying American...I am a disabled Vietnam Veteran! I can't always buy everything American but I certainly have the right to advocate it!!!
Sure buddy. No where in the world is hypocrisy forbidden. You can be as hypocritical as you like. Shout it from the rooftops while you are breaking with that fine Chinese cue that performs better than anything else you have ever used. You and Monstermash are definitely peas in a pod I will give you that.


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06-21-2011, 06:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.

To the best of my knowledge, MM did NOT "trash your business"! He had a problem with one of your CHEAP imported cases, and reviewed it in the appropriate forum. He even pointed out some of the good features of the case. However in YOUR usual fashion, you cannot stand ANY criticism whatsoever...so YOU trashed him! Shame on you!

If you had ANY character at all...you should be apologizing to Tom and all the members of AZ for you behavior...but I won't hold my breath.

FYI, Mr Barton...you will never need to develope a character that pleases me because I will NEVER be a customer of yours! The only case I ever had that I assume you designed, was a Jiasen (The Tiger) and I sold it a month after I bought it because I did NOT like the interior design!

You are a vindictive and hateful man! Fortunately, YOU have to live with it...not me. Have a nice day...
Lol, please. This guy "Tom" made up a lie about my product. That lie was first told in the main forum after I proved that "Tom" is completely ignorant not only about my business but also about Justis' business. ONLY after I took him down did he come with this revelation. I think that you don't your buddy as well as you think you do.

You keep fudging now with the "to the best of my knowledge" disclaimers. Well your knowledge is sorely lacking so maybe you ought to not get into discussions where you need to disclaim your ignorance.

As for your reasoning for selling a case I don't really care. I don't care what you like or don't like. You are completely and totally meaningless to me and your opinion of me or my products doesn't mean a damn thing. UNTIL you try to lie about my products at which time I will care and will defend them and go after you with all I am able to.

You call that vindictive and I call it protecting my interests. You call it hateful and I call it being frank. I don't hate Monstermash. Hate is not even really in my vocabulary. I see him, "Tom", as simply someone who is socially inept and incapable of backing down once he has wronged someone. Now he has created a lie and backed himself into a corner with that lie. To me he is the same as when a wasp is threatening me. I will attempt to allow the wasp to go free and leave me alone but if it persists then I will kill it. I don't hate the wasp but I will not allow it to harm me or mine.

Got it?


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06-21-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.

To the best of my knowledge, MM did NOT "trash your business"! He had a problem with one of your CHEAP imported cases, and reviewed it in the appropriate forum. He even pointed out some of the good features of the case. However in YOUR usual fashion, you cannot stand ANY criticism whatsoever...so YOU trashed him! Shame on you!

If you had ANY character at all...you should be apologizing to Tom and all the members of AZ for you behavior...but I won't hold my breath.

FYI, Mr Barton...you will never need to develope a character that pleases me because I will NEVER be a customer of yours! The only case I ever had that I assume you designed, was a Jiasen (The Tiger) and I sold it a month after I bought it because I did NOT like the interior design!

You are a vindictive and hateful man! Fortunately, YOU have to live with it...not me. Have a nice day...

It doesn't matter to me in any way shape or form what you believe, and as far as demeanor go's your can also be a little off center. I noticed you did not respond to your accusation about the question I ask about the Scruggs cue even when I responded to your question respectfully.

Other than your accusation I have nothing to prove in this conversation because I suspect that my knowledge concerning cues and cue construction is far beyond your's. However, I did expect you to man up and apologize for your completely incorrect remark I suppose it only shows your true character.

JIMO


Best Regards

"Warlock 1"

Craig W. Rittel
  
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06-21-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.
......
I googled a little. You might want to check this page out.
http://www.importgenius.com/supplier...nterprises-ltd

Apparently they are made in Taiwan by Yinoyi Enterprises. More precisely, Yinoyi was exporting pool cues to KC Industries in 2006.



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06-21-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich93 View Post
I googled a little. You might want to check this page out.
http://www.importgenius.com/supplier...nterprises-ltd

Apparently they are made in Taiwan by Yinoyi Enterprises. More precisely, Yinoyi was exporting pool cues to KC Industries in 2006.

Rich say ain't so!!!

I doubt he will respond, he doesn't have anything to say when he is proven wrong, kinda sad actually.

Thanks for clearing this up for the forum and have a great day Sir.


Best Regards

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Craig W. Rittel
  
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06-21-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwon View Post
Rich say ain't so!!!

I doubt he will respond, he doesn't have anything to say when he is proven wrong, kinda sad actually.

Thanks for clearing this up for the forum and have a great day Sir.
Craig, are you really that lazy and stupid to let someone else do your research?

Hmmmm, the US Customs database has revealed that KC Cues imported Cues, or possibly cue parts, from Taiwan ONCE in 16 years. How many times did the 175 other billiard companies order imports? Companies such as Schon, Pechauer, Tad, Olhausen, Brunswick...they are are in the database too!
Just because a company orders cues or parts from overseas ONCE in 16 years does NOT mean they do not manufacture cues in the US today! Especially since the last import in the US Customs database occurred over 5 years ago!

Why do you folks go out of your way to be ignorant?

Oh that's right Mr Craig is Mr know it all! Except lately he seems to be wrong about most everything. Craig the similarities between this thread and the Scruggs thread is YOU are WRONG in your assumptions! You were also wrong about me responding to your stupidity. However, I will NO longer interfere with YOU making an ass out of yourself! Adios!


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Showcase Purpleheart Sneaky.
Chris Nitti Brunswick Conversion Cues...coming soon!
Wraps: Imported Spanish Bull by Steve Klein
Shaft: Tiger Ultra X
Jump/Break: Tiger IceBreaker with Bull Leather Wrap
Case: Instroke 3X5, 2X2 (German), and It's George 1x2.

Last edited by cfrandy; 06-21-2011 at 07:32 PM.
  
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06-21-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
Craig, are you really that lazy and stupid to let someone else do your research?

Hmmmm, the US Customs database has revealed that KC Cues imported Cues, or possibly cue parts, from Taiwan ONCE in 16 years. How many times did the 175 other billiard companies order imports? Companies such as Schon, Pechauer, Tad, Olhausen, Brunswick...they are are in the database too!
Just because a company orders cues or parts from overseas ONCE in 16 years does NOT mean they do not manufacture cues in the US today! Especially since the last import in the US Customs database occurred over 5 years ago!

Why do you folks go out of your way to be ignorant?

Oh that's right Mr Craig is Mr know it all! Except lately he seems to be wrong about most everything. Craig the similarities between this thread and the Scruggs thread is YOU are WRONG in your assumptions! You were also wrong about me responding to your stupidity. However, I will NO longer interfere with YOU making an ass out of yourself! Adios!


Please again there is no need to get disrespectful, calling people stupid and such. I did the only research I needed to do I bought one of the cues like I said above and took it apart, what better form of research is there.

You really need to grow up and stand up like an adult and admit when you are wrong, you will feel better about it in the morning.

If I were vindictive you could be banned for your comments above, but I will not report you if nothing else your good to laugh at!!!!!! Before you start trash talking in the future I would suggest you read the forum rules concerning disrespectful remarks if you can't find it I will post a link.

Have a great night my little Road Runner!!!!


Best Regards

"Warlock 1"

Craig W. Rittel

Last edited by manwon; 06-21-2011 at 09:04 PM.
  
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06-21-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwon View Post
Please again there is no need to get disrespectful, calling people stupid and such. I did the only research I needed to do I bought one of the cues like I said above and took it apart, what better form of research is there.

You really need to grow up and stand up like an adult and admit when you are wrong, you will feel better about it in the morning.

If I were vindictive you could be banned for your comments above, but I will not report you if nothing else your good to laugh at!!!!!! Before you start trash talking in the future I would suggest you read the forum rules concerning disrespectful remarks if you can't find it I will post a link.

Have a great night my little Road Runner!!!!
Stay calm Craig. It's all good. Let's drop it. Obviously KC Cues isn't proud enough of their American operation to show everyone their cue making facility in Fremont as most other American cue makers like to do. It's all good. You know what you know, I know what I know and if we had to bet then I am pretty confident that we'd be as close to a sure thing as is possible to get when betting. But in the grand scheme of things it's best to just let it go.

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06-23-2011, 01:32 AM

Sorry guys to act out the Swiss here, but when someone buys a product they're convinced is defective, yet doesn't care enough to send it back to the factory, ask for a replacement or repair, or their money back, in a worst case scenario file a complaint, but whose only known interest lies in making a rant of things in public, what does that tell us?

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06-24-2011, 03:50 AM

For those that would like to know how this has gone:

Sterling offered to take the case back and inspect it.

Matt Carter, the GM at Sterling, offered to pay the shipping and send a label.

Later Matt offered a full refund unconditionally if we get the case back.

Monstermash has refused to allow Sterling to get this case to verify his claims.

I asked MM to provide top down pictures of the case empty and full. He has refused.

This is the thread http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...40#post3073140

Lastly I have made several videos covering this incident in an attempt to reconstruct the situation as best I could using Monstermash's statements.

They are here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXxYR...eature=related

and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZnlxVyWLE

At this point it is my conclusion that this claim is bogus and that no cues were harmed by the proper use of this case. Of course we do not have the case and so there is always the possibility that this particular case has a defect which somehow allows the shafts to touch. But it is our contention that even if such touching were present then it would not be enough to harm the finish.

We will happy to revisit this issue at some point in the future should the actual case be presented to us for inspection.

Until then we consider the matter closed and I personally deny the claim based on a lack of evidence.


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06-24-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy View Post
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof.
I've been able to find records from 2006 and 2007 of cues being imported from Yinoyi Enterprises Inc. out of the port of Kaohsiung and being sent to KC Industries. Not parts, but actual cue sticks. The contact person is a Mr. Jim Shao, who also lives at the listed business address, which happens to be a small house in a Fremont suburb and not any sort of actual business/warehouse. The cues look and feel like imports, have a record of being imported, were sent to an address that's not an actual business, by a company listed on many chinese import sites.... But you're right, I'm sure Mr. Shao makes all of these cues himself out of his 2 bedroom house in Fremont.


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Then they all started shouting "14....14....14..."
  
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06-26-2011, 11:01 PM

Barton, do us all a favor and just shut up.

I don't need to cater to you by going out of my way to prove anything to you other than the photos I already posted. The photos CLEARLY show the jp's touching. Ok? Get it?

There are many people here who are just sick of your crap. I am number one on this list right now. I am very sick of you calling me a liar etc.

For the last time, your case is a piece of crap. It's made in china so it's not a surprise. Get over yourself and stay out of my business. I wrote a factual review and posted clear photos to back up my claim. Then in your typical fashion and fanfare you make a bunch of videos of a SIMILAR case (not the actual case that caused the damage) to make a point that you feel I have lied about the case damaging a cue. You have ZERO proof that it didn't and I have all the proof I need, photos.

I almost can't believe I have had to explain this to you AGAIN! Oh wait, yes I can believe it. You never pay attention and even if you do actully look at the photos you just type another 5000 words trying to make yourself feel vindicated. Well here's a news flash, you'll never be vindicated in anyone's eyes but your own. No one except a few people who actully like you ( I have no idea why) are the only ones backing you up here. Even Matt Carter hasn't bothered to reply after starting a thread regarding the problem in the main forum.

Answer me this smart guy, what is the difference between the photos I posted and the ones you want me to take from straight down other than you know I won't cater to you and provide the photo? Because you know I won't do anything to help you get your own way you have asked for different photos that what I have provided acting like there is going to be some revelation if I take a photo from directly above the case.

You and I and the rest of the forum already know nothing is going to change if I take those photos. The only thing that's going to happen is I risk damaging another cue by this POS case.


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