CTE/ProOne Help Needed

sfleinen

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
stan shuffett said:
Sean,

Your post is fair.... But this game is so darn tough and it is so easy to get off your feet that I tend give a little slack.

I only watched to the 1st miss and that was on my I phone at that.

I will try later to view more of his play.

I only noticed his alignments and movements, and I assessed that he was using Pro One. And to be clear, Pro one does not , in itself, mean the runs are going to be special.

My first thoughts are: This gentlemen has indicated that he does run 100 from time to time. I will not question his word. Perhaps he will post a run of 90 or a 100 or whatever since his integrity has been questioned.

That's what I'd do. I would get the video camera and post up a run.

Stan Shuffett
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Stan:

That's what we're talking about. In the 14.1 forum -- which, btw, this player admitted he discovered the existence of via a post from me here in this Aiming Conversation forum encouraging him to participate in -- he posted that he executed a 120-ball run on his very first visit. And, in a post here on this Aiming Conversation subforum, he mentioned that he "runs 100s every day." Putting two and two together, yes, we *ARE* calling into question his honesty -- we believe the 120-ball run claim is a fish story -- because trained eyes (and I'm not saying just myself -- known 100-ball runners have said this also) say that what is shown in those videos, misses dismissed / put aside for the moment -- say this player is definitely not who he says he is.

I'm sorry to have to say things this way, but we in the 14.1 subforum have been burned in the past with "fish stories" and worse yet, people posting up videos that were later discovered to be modified / forgeries. We are a little "once bitten, twice shy."

We are going to ask the moderator of the "AZB 2013 Straight Pool Challenge" thread to strike this player's "120" from the list, because we believe it's a fish story.

That is, unless, he can provide a video of him performing such a high run, that we can review (and of course, make sure it itself is not a forgery).

I realize this is not the type of thing you want to read about an avid pool player and supporter of an aiming system. But again, honesty is now numero uno in the 14.1 subforum. We are going to demand video of any claimed run over 70 balls. To give you an idea of the honesty we're talking about, since I myself posted a claimed run of 78 balls on New Year's Day, even though I honestly made that run, I will abide by the new policy and won't balk at having my 78 run removed. Just a casualty of the new rules.

-Sean
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sfleinen said:
Stan:

That's what we're talking about. In the 14.1 forum -- which, btw, this player admitted he discovered the existence of via a post from me here in this Aiming Conversation forum encouraging him to participate in -- he posted that he executed a 120-ball run on his very first visit. And, in a post here on this Aiming Conversation subforum, he mentioned that he "runs 100s every day." Putting two and two together, yes, we *ARE* calling into question his honesty -- we believe the 120-ball run claim is a fish story -- because trained eyes (and I'm not saying just myself -- known 100-ball runners have said this also) say that what is shown in those videos, misses dismissed / put aside for the moment -- say this player is definitely not who he says he is.

I'm sorry to have to say things this way, but we in the 14.1 subforum have been burned in the past with "fish stories" and worse yet, people posting up videos that were later discovered to be modified / forgeries. We are a little "once bitten, twice shy."

We are going to ask the moderator of the "AZB 2013 Straight Pool Challenge" thread to strike this player's "120" from the list, because we believe it's a fish story.

That is, unless, he can provide a video of him performing such a high run, that we can review (and of course, make sure it itself is not a forgery).

I realize this is not the type of thing you want to read about an avid pool player and supporter of an aiming system. But again, honesty is now numero uno in the 14.1 subforum. We are going to demand video of any claimed run over 70 balls. To give you an idea of the honesty we're talking about, since I myself posted a claimed run of 78 balls on New Year's Day, even though I honestly made that run, I will abide by the new policy and won't balk at having my 78 run removed. Just a casualty of the new rules.

-Sean
Click to expand...

Again, Fair post , Sean.

I agree. I like the video and run coupled at 70 plus.

That makes it a must to do the video thing even though it is a hassle sometimes.

It has been a year or so but I tried to get a 100 on video over a few weeks period and I came up with 3 runs on tape in the 80s. I am still sitting on those.

Oh well, if I want to post a run, then the video gig is a requirement. That's great! That way I can't be lazy and not do the camera stuff.

Stan Shuffett
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
stan shuffett said:
Again, Fair post , Sean.

I agree. I like the video and run coupled at 70 plus.

That makes it a must to do the video thing even though it is a hassle sometimes.

It has been a year or so but I tried to get a 100 on video over a few weeks period and I came up with 3 runs on tape in the 80s. I am still sitting on those.

Oh well, if I want to post a run, then the video gig is a requirement. That's great! That way I can't be lazy and not do the camera stuff.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Stan:

I can tell you that we in the 14.1 forum LOVE your stuff, and would be eager to have you post a video of a high run. Your integrity is never in question -- but rules are rules.

I myself have been lazy, and, being that I work in information technology and the last thing I want to engage in on my time-off (pool time) is "more" technology, still, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get set up for video. Even if nothing more than a good smartphone mounted on a tripod.

Very much looking forward to your videos -- please, if you can, convert those 80-plus runs and make them available. Lots of folks would look forward to those!

-Sean
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sfleinen said:
Stan:

I can tell you that we in the 14.1 forum LOVE your stuff, and would be eager to have you post a video of a high run. Your integrity is never in question -- but rules are rules.

I myself have been lazy, and, being that I work in information technology and the last thing I want to engage in on my time-off (pool time) is "more" technology, still, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get set up for video. Even if nothing more than a good smartphone mounted on a tripod.

Very much looking forward to your videos -- please, if you can, convert those 80-plus runs and make them available. Lots of folks would look forward to those!

-Sean
Click to expand...

I checked on converting and am still not sure what I must do. After DVD2 is complete I will try once again and post 1 or even all 3 of them.

Stan
 
P

Phoenix13

Banned
Just watched a video from the 14-1 forum and I believe you guys should put a tape measure on the pockets too. Some shots made would not go in on the table I usually play on :)
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Phoenix13 said:
Just watched a video from the 14-1 forum and I believe you guys should put a tape measure on the pockets too. Some shots made would not go in on the table I usually play on :)
Click to expand...

First things first -- like video proof to vet the claims, first. Equipment constraints later. Although, I have to say, that would be a very bad idea. Who's to say what table specs are "acceptable" for runs to be considered "legit"?

We wouldn't want this to turn into the 14.1 equivalent of the dilemma we see being discussed about pros and 10-ball, and whether 4.5-inch pockets are "too easy."

For right now, video proof that at least the run itself is legit and not a fish story. This at least addresses a very real problem, and not a "perceived" one.

-Sean
 
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Phoenix13

Banned
I guess you can figure out some kind of handicapping system for tables. I do not think a run of 80 on a tight table is equal to a run of 80 on table with buckets for pockets. I know when I am playing on a table with buckets in the corners my game automatically is bumped up a couple balls before i even start playing, if you know what I mean. I am not a 14-1 player and believe a run of 80 is pretty dam good on any table also.
 
P

Phoenix13

Banned
SpiderWebComm said:
If CB/OB distance is 1 diamond or less, you always adjust to the next thinner OB target. So, for a left thick cut where LCBE goes to OBA, once you get within a diamond distance you go to OBB. Conversely, after about 4 diamonds (I think that's correct -- someone correct me if I'm wrong), you go to 1 target thicker (OBB to OBA for instance).
Click to expand...

The above bold is not correct and no alignment adjustment is needed after four diamonds. There is very little change after 2 or 2.5 diamonds and further that I can think of. There may be an exception to this that I do not know of?
 
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mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Phoenix13 said:
The above bold is not correct and no alignment adjustment is needed after 4 diamonds.
Click to expand...

I believe Stan has mentioned before, there are no "B" alignments after about 4 diamonds. The CTEL would be off the edge of the ball. A "B" alignment would move to an CTEL-A/C (thicker) shot alignment.
 
Yoda4962

Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
My notes from this year to myself....

Here are my notes to myself from this year......

(may 30,2012 last post)
14.1 stats
jan 2 104
jan 8 122
jan 15 47
apr 6 112
may 28 85

playing very strong with 2 steps.... line up cue, stroke parallel

jan 23,2013
CTE used in local tournament, no nerves or demons. Placed 4th out of 64. Ran 120 this week.

oct 10, 2012
first CTE used in local tourn, played great but mis identified rail shots and missed a few. now corrected and will see how the next one goes. CTE seems to help with nerves during the game.

Aug 25,2012
My whole game is transformed into complete joy. Pocketing everything. Great confidence boost.

Aug 23,2012
No stance is correct stance. Line up the cue and adapt to it. Playing strong with 2 steps, line up cue, stroke parallel. Ran 112 saturday morning, thinking about lining up the cue, not the stance.

July 25 southern classic tunica --DISCOVERED CTE --- EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED !
Total transformation. Playing great, no stance thoughts, just pocketing everything. Stevie Moore was right, and obviously Landon is doing something right.

===================
As you can see, i keep notes about my game and progress, so please come to Texas, and call me a liar in person.... PLease DO !!!!






(so **** you all, get up there and play on that 10 footer yourself, then post your f'n comments and YOUR video !!!!. The 10 footer destroys your confidence, and you can't get comfortable because you cant reach anything, as j archer said, 'screw this thing !')

I will be playing in the us open one pocket, and the tunica event, so please come by and call me a liar in person. I am old, but looking forward to seeing you !!!!!

Y
 
Yoda4962

Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
And one last parting thought.....

Where is the video of you running balls on this table ?
 
P

Phoenix13

Banned
mohrt said:
I believe Stan has mentioned before, there are no "B" alignments after about 4 diamonds. The CTEL would be off the edge of the ball. A "B" alignment would move to an CTEL-A/C (thicker) shot alignment.
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ok, i did not know that. So after a 4 diamonds distance a B turns into an edge to A or C or are you saying it becomes ccb to A or C?
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Phoenix13 said:
ok, i did not know that. So after a 4 diamonds distance a B is no longer a cte shot?
Click to expand...

True for a 9 footer. About 50 inches.

At the point that it becomes impossible to see a CBE to B and a CTEL,
Your visuals could be A or C thick with CTE or depending on the cut, a single line visual of A or C as thin cut would be appropriate.

Of course, the 1/8 overlap could come into play on an extremely thin shot.

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
stan shuffett said:
A Rule for Pivot or Visual Sweep direction is that for any given shot the rotation can be either right or left.

Is there a shot that can the same visuals but can have both pivot directions?

YES, And this can be a good lesson concerning the importance of proper bridge distance.

Let's say the CB is 1/2 ball off of an end rail. The OB is 6 diamonds or so down table as a very slight cut to the the right corner pocket.

Typically this shot calls for an outside pivot direction or left because it represents a very thick cut in the system.

TWO SITUATIONS:
1. I want to pound the ball, cutting it into the corner, and bring the CUEBALL back up table for my next shot.

2. I want to lag the shot very softly so the CUEBALL tags along to the end rail.

For #1. Use an extended bridge off of the end rail in order to achieve a normal bridge distance. This allows for proper acceleration and the pivot is typical and from the outside. LEFT

For #2. Now for the lag. The longer extended rail bridge is not needed. Use a full hand bridge on the rail channeling your cue between your thumb and index finger. This will make for a very short bridge distance. This will encourage supreme accuracy and a very short backswing. THE PIVOT DIRECTION IS NOW FROM THE INSIDE. RIGHT

WHY? An exaggerated shorter bridge distance occurred. Something had to change.

The lesson:
In manual pivoting,bridge distances are strict. In Pro One bridge distances are more flexible but when exaggerations occur, an adjustment is needed and that adjustment may come in the form of an opposite pivot direction.

The learning never stops...

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Bump, as I think this may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

Stan Shuffett
 
Yoda4962

Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
Get on the 10 footer and show me YOUR patterns !!!

sfleinen said:
Stan:

To be fair, it's more than just that. I think what Ingo is saying, is not to look at the "aiming system" the player in question is using, but rather, look at his fundamentals (e.g. his grip, with the thumb on the outside of the cue), his stroke, and more importantly -- from a 14.1 standpoint -- his patterns.

It's one thing to get up there and "take a swing at shots" on the 10-footer. It's quite another to select the correct shot for patterns conducive to pocketing success, and for setting up the rest of the pattern where it's an easy-enough out. To look at this from an "aiming system zealot" point of view, where "any shot on the table is a done deal, all you have to do is execute the system correctly and the ball will go" is extremely short-sighted.

Let me word the question a little differently. Watch the videos in their ENTIRETY. Please put your 14.1 hat on when doing so. Watch the patterns, shot selection, cue ball control (or lack of), excessive bumping of balls, etc. And keep this question in mind: "Do you think the player in question is normally a 100-ball runner?" (Please keep the 10-foot platform out of the question -- this is not a question of the shot difficulty caused by the increased distance. This is a question of CORRECT PATTERNS that would be conducive to 100-ball runs, as this player claims. This is a question of RECOGNITION of a 100-ball runner when you see him/her.)

That's what Ingo is saying. And I tend to agree with him. The player in this video, IMHO, is not a 100-ball runner.

-Sean
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All your patterns go out the window, because you can't reach anything !!!

Get on there yourself dumshit and show me your skills !!!

NO,,, i don't see you at the table, do i ?
 
P

Phoenix13

Banned
stan shuffett said:
True for a 9 footer. About 50 inches.

At the point that it becomes impossible to see a CBE to B and a CTEL,
Your visuals could be A or C thick with CTE or depending on the cut, a single line visual of A or C as thin cut would be appropriate.

Of course, the 1/8 overlap could come into play on an extremely thin shot.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

hmm, ok this gives me something to think about.
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yoda4962 said:
All your patterns go out the window, because you can't reach anything !!!

Get on there yourself dumshit and show me your skills !!!

NO,,, i don't see you at the table, do i ?
Click to expand...

Rather than pollute this thread responding to this, why don't you respond over in the 14.1 forum -- where this belongs?

-Sean
 
P

Phoenix13

Banned
stan shuffett said:
True for a 9 footer. About 50 inches.

At the point that it becomes impossible to see a CBE to B and a CTEL,
Your visuals could be A or C thick with CTE or depending on the cut, a single line visual of A or C as thin cut would be appropriate.

Of course, the 1/8 overlap could come into play on an extremely thin shot.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Now this 50 inch (4 diamond) adjustment is only for B alignment shots correct? it does not come into effect on a A or C alignment shot at that distance.
 
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