Pro Pool players courting disaster

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, it is certainly not Bonus Ball's intent to have any new table sales be Diamond or Brunswicks, that is for sure, as per this press release, they have confirmed Rasson Billiards Tables of China as their official sponsor. Seems to me that domestic manufacturers (I guess only Diamond would qualify under this description) stand to lose out along with other established promoters.

As to increased league activity, I would say there would be little. I play in two 8 ball leauges (BCA and ACS) and I can assure you that most if not all league players have no interest in playing in a Bonus Ball league. Just a bit more food for thought.

Interesting, I thought they had already made a deal to use Diamond tables. I know Greg shipped ten tables out to Vegas for them. I will look into this.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I feel kind of sorry for Bonus Ball.

It only had like a 1% chance of succeeding even if all the money's there and everything went smoothly.
Now some heavy hitters like Jay Helfert are coming straight out and saying
"keep away from this, you'll get screwed".

I don't know that it was really necessary to take a machine gun to the baby seal.
The only draw bonus ball has going for it is like 10 famous players and
if Jay actually convinced any of them to quit, it'd shrink that 1% chance to near 0.

Just seems like overkill, nothing's so fragile that if those ten guys skip some tournaments,
it all falls apart.

I didn't write the OP in a vacuum. I don't like the business model, it's chances for long term success, the continued start/stop dates and the fact that they chose to start right on top of existing events, forcing players to make a choice that really wasn't necessary. Plus we don't know if the money will be there and for how long. Promises, promises, promises. Kind of reminds me of Kevin Trudough.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Bonus ball hooked up with Rasson...a China company. There was a press release from bb on AZ home page a few weeks ago. Johnnyt
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Off the phone with Greg Sullivan, who by the way is one of the best men I've ever met in all my years in pool. He and Mark tried to help Larry out with Bonus Ball years ago, supplying tables for the six man shootout in Canada. Greg is not against Bonus Ball, he wants anything that is good for pool. What he is against is having it first held over his head at Derby City earlier this year and now again for the Southern Classic. Not cool imo either.

Greg and Larry made a verbal agreement where Diamond was going to supply ten or eleven tables free of charge for the first year/season. Greg's partner Chad had the tables shipped to Vegas, coordinating with Mark Griffin on the other end. The tables have been in Vegas for a long time now. Sometime after all this (when the tables had already been shipped), Larry made another deal with Rasson to be his table sponsor. To date he has never informed Greg of his change of plans.

That will give you (and me) some idea of how Larry operates. I know Greg Sullivan. He is not a whiner, a complainer or a liar.
 

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
Im kind of on the fence about this. I don't understand the contradicting dates.... Why force players to choose.
I also agree that Jays nod may have more impact than he realizes.
I would like to see the two work together and not have a pissing contest, it's not productive for anyone
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I think now would be the right time for all pool tournament promoter's to get together and act as one. Promoters that put on 25k and up tournaments have to pay to have them sanctioned and make sure their tournament date doesn't effect any other sanctioned event. Sometimes they have to put in for a date a year or more in advance. Then you have Bonus Ball comes along and can put their tournaments on whenever they want. That is not a level playing field in my book. I will not be watching any Bonus Ball matches from now on. Johnnyt
 

bfdlad

T-Wheels
Silver Member
Off the phone with Greg Sullivan, who by the way is one of the best men I've ever met in all my years in pool. He and Mark tried to help Larry out with Bonus Ball years ago, supplying tables for the six man shootout in Canada. Greg is not against Bonus Ball, he wants anything that is good for pool. What he is against is having it first held over his head at Derby City earlier this year and now again for the Southern Classic. Not cool imo either.

Greg and Larry made a verbal agreement where Diamond was going to supply ten or eleven tables free of charge for the first year/season. Greg's partner Chad had the tables shipped to Vegas, coordinating with Mark Griffin on the other end. The tables have been in Vegas for a long time now. Sometime after all this (when the tables had already been shipped), Larry made another deal with Rasson to be his table sponsor. To date he has never informed Greg of his change of plans.

That will give you (and me) some idea of how Larry operates. I know Greg Sullivan. He is not a whiner, a complainer or a liar.
Just to add a little more to the table confusion. At some point in the past 12 months BB needed a few tables for some kind of occupancy licence or permit (This could have been BD fromn the GC that was not on the square) Anyway I think Fatboy was involved somehow too and Mark Griffin agreed to let Bonus Ball rent some tables for a month or two to help them get things in order. So Griffin had some of his people deliver the tabled to the Bonus Ball arena since Bonus Ball were having problems getting tables in there at short notice or something. YES Griffin charged them but he had to pay to have them delivered and so he should have imo. Did he have to help them ??? NOPE. I am saying this because it seems that alot of people thing that Mark G is against Bonus Ball and will do everything he can to disrupt their operations. Well I am not sure that he is a big lover of bonus ball but if he wanted to be a problem to them he certainly had a chance and didn't have to help at all. So add that to the mix Jay :)
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You have to spot me two purples, an orange, one boner ball and I get Disco to coach me.

Together we can fix pool.



hell if you got Disco, you are a made guy. Can i kiss your ring please:grin-square:
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey bro, we need to save this for a Barry Behrman (BB) thread.


I think if Barry see's this he's going to start telling people "Fatboy's on my side", look what he wrote about me.

oh shit, good point, sadly i'm not on Barry Berhmans side as it stands now. if he can prove he is good, then sure i can forgive AFTER he cleasn up his past obligations and runs a tourny that get's paid off on the spot, then yeah i'd be ok. I'll still talk to him and be polite, but sadly my respect I had for him has suffered lots(he probably dont care-he dont care about SVB, why should he care about me, i aint "investing")

hope your well Steve, good lookin' out.

my very best
eric:)


PS: the powder "tin" is in a very safe secure dry spot, gotta keep the powder dry. And I cant express my gratitude for that, it will always be safe with me. And if ever you ask its yours. Of everything pool i own that and the Gus Tribute Cue Barry built are the 2 big ones.:)
 

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
In fairness, my understanding is that the Seminoles left because the board members who liked pool were replaced by board members who didn't care as much for pool. It had nothing to do with whether they were making money from pool.

Mike

This is spot on. I looked at the Seminole Tour and it folded, they have an endless supply of money but obviously it just did not work for them. Maybe a big corporation could come along and buy pro pool for promotional purposes of a product. The numbers might not be there for pool on TV in the US but worldwide it is much bigger in other places.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In fairness, my understanding is that the Seminoles left because the board members who liked pool were replaced by board members who didn't care as much for pool. It had nothing to do with whether they were making money from pool.

Mike


thats right, one girl replaced the guy who liked it. Cory Dueal who is in tight with me told me what happened, i aint going into details but it was a personal distaste for pool that ultimately ended that tour, it was not $$$ or anything where the pool world screwed up. It was just a bad roll for pool.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting, I thought they had already made a deal to use Diamond tables. I know Greg shipped ten tables out to Vegas for them. I will look into this.


check your PM, talk tomaro

best
eric


PS: anyone run 527 yet? $$$ is up.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Take this for what its worth, coming from a newbie to all things pool related....

It seemed rather obvious to me that Bonus Ball could have tried to coexist within the existing industry, but chose not to. Whether that is good or bad is up to the individual observer.

Myself, I feel that it was short -sighted to pee in the industry cheerio bowl, and not only work around existing major events, but to promote the fact that they were doing so. Thus not creating strife with those who have kept these events going year after year, but also taking advantage of those events to promote their product. (Why, oh why were they not at SBE, showing off their product in person to a HUGE audience?)

Then again, what do I know? I'm pretty sure I know that I'm not really interested in Bonus Ball very much. Best of luck, to everyone in the industry.
 
Last edited:

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
In fairness, my understanding is that the Seminoles left because the board members who liked pool were replaced by board members who didn't care as much for pool. It had nothing to do with whether they were making money from pool.

Mike

I knew it was stopped for some reason, thanks for the clarification as to exactly why. That sucks because they were putting some decent money into pro pool.
 

brandoncook26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Take this for what its worth, coming from a newbie to all things pool related....

It seemed rather obvious to me that Bonus Ball could have tried to coexist within the existing industry, but chose not to. Whether that is good or bad is up to the individual observer.

Myself, I feel that it was short -sighted to pee in the industry cheerio bowl, and not only work around existing major events, but to promote the fact that they were doing so. Thus not creating strife with those who have kept these events going year after year, but also taking advantage of those events to promote their product. (Why, oh why were they not at SBE, showing off their product in person to a HUGE audience?)

Then again, what do I know? I'm pretty sure I know that I'm not really interested in Bonus Ball very much. Best of luck, to everyone in the industry.

Almost exactly my earlier post Dub. If they would have tried to work with others I would have tried to be on board. It seems they have had so many missteps along the way. Pool is too small to step on other's toes. Because of that, I believe they don't have my viewership. Good luck to the BB guys.

To be honest, I am all for anything that can help, but not at the expense of others. Especially when it would have been very easy to make it go the other way.
 

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
Almost exactly my earlier post Dub. If they would have tried to work with others I would have tried to be on board. It seems they have had so many missteps along the way. Pool is too small to step on other's toes. Because of that, I believe they don't have my viewership. Good luck to the BB guys.

To be honest, I am all for anything that can help, but not at the expense of others. Especially when it would have been very easy to make it go the other way.

I am not sure people understand that Bonus Ball asked the players which events they would like to play in and worked with the players so they are able to attend those events if they choose to, it really is up to the players what they want to play. Bonus Ball is a business and they have a permanent venue which has cost involved so shutting down a week here and there to accommodate the other promoters does not make a ton of sense and would cost many thousands of dollars to do so.

Another thing people do not understand is that not all Bonus Ball players will be playing every weekend so they will be able to attend events along with having money from working at Bonus Ball to do so also. I think we will see what the players do and how the fields are in the events, I think attendance will be just fine to be honest. I spoke with Chris from California Billiard Club about his tournament he is putting on and he was thinking of canceling. I told him the list of players who are not playing who could attend his tournament and believe his event will have a bigger pro turnout then last year with most of the players being on the west coast for Bonus Ball so here is a promoter and tournament that will most likely see a benefit from it I feel.
 
Last edited:

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
Off the phone with Greg Sullivan...

Larry may have agreed to use Diamond tables at one point, but that all went south when Diamond added the clause that was conditional on us using a 10' table in our TV arena (which doesn't interest us), yet have 9-footers in our practice rooms. It made no sense for our game, nor for our players. Plus it wouldn't physically fit in our arena.

They also later added a nearly 5-figure "installation" fee. That instantly ended any further dealings with Diamond. Sure, we never told them we found someone else, but nor did we ever agree to those terms. They essentially tried to sell us something, and we weren't interested. It's not the customers responsibility to refuse a sale.

Rasson gave us a great deal, paid all expenses, and outright gave us the tables we needed. They also offered to help promote the league, and they have a great modern product.

I still respect Greg at Diamond and enjoy his tables. There is no "bad guy" here. We simply didn't like the offer they made us and went elsewhere.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
they had 4 tournaments in a row without paying any of the players the prize money.

Jay,,a question--when RJ Reynolds was sued--was it because of the Strickland Runnout?

I can answer this one. No. The Strickland/Deuel encounter was at Romines Billiards and was after the Camel Tour had gone off of TV because of the tobacco ad court ruling. The lawsuit came about because RJR and the PBT could not agree on contractual issues and when Camel began its own tour (The Camel Pro Series) without the help of the PBT then the PBT sued RJR and won.

And the Strickland 11-rack runnout was on the PCA Tour at Champs in Dallas, Texas. Had nothing to do with the Camel Tour or Camel Pro Series or the PBT.

-Jerry[/QUOTE]

Champs Billiards? Ouch :shrug:

I hear things about the history of the "Camel Tour" and one point that is VERY IMPORTANT is they had 4 tournaments in a row (maybe 5) without paying any of the players the prize money. I ask Jose Parica about this a couple of months ago because he won one of the tournaments and finished second in another if he got paid....he said "No, they still own me close to $40,000"

So the Camel Tour "went up in flames," and this was right about the time the ESPN tournament was happening that's been posted the last couple of days. This was a huge cross roads in the history of pool and looking back it was the "straw that broke the Camel's back". (no pun intended) ;)
 
Top