Pro Pool players courting disaster

brandoncook26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not sure people understand that Bonus Ball asked the players which events they would like to play in and worked with the players so they are able to attend those events if they chose to, it really is up to the players what they want to play. Bonus Ball is a business and they have a permanent venue which has cost involved so shutting down a week here and there to accommodate the other promoters does not make a ton of sense and would cost many thousands of dollars to do so.

Another thing people do not understand is that not all Bonus Ball players will be playing every weekend so they will be able to attend events along with having money from working at Bonus Ball to do so also. I think we will see what the players do and how the fields are in the events, I think attendance will be just fine to be honest. I spoke with Chris from California Billiard Club about his tournament he is putting on and he was thinking of canceling. I told him the list of players who are not playing who could attend his tournament and believe his event will have a bigger pro turnout then last year with most of the players being on the west coast for Bonus Ball so here is a promoter and tournament that will most likely see a benefit from it I feel.

I understand what you're saying, but there's no way to tell until the chips fall where they do. In the end it will all be out there and we will all see what is going on, good or bad. I really hope the pros are able to make a sustainable living. I guess we are all waiting now to see how it turns out.
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
It appears that Bonus Ball will continue on its road at least for the foreseeable future, which means this first bona fide upcoming season.

Players aren't going to give up the so-called guaranteed money with BB. Who can blame them? Promoters of the past have promised big numbers for the players only to be disappointed. Unfortunately, the players have been living on alms for a long time.

Pool's past and current promoters other than BB have to feel slighted and you can't blame them for feeling that way as well. What they do for retaliation is entirely up to them, if anything.

All of the talk about current promoters helping out a fellow promoter (BB) and being summarily dismissed without even a phone call, is not a good sign for the integrity of BB. I am not connected to BB and don't know the details but on the surface, it sounds like a terrible way to treat a fellow promoter. Maybe there is another side to the story and Larry will share that with us?

Anyway, pool will continue on with or without BB, or current promoters. It has been a bumpy road these many decades, so nothing has changed and nothing will change until there is real unity in pool. That unity can come only if pool becomes a self-sustaining entity (television advertising). Perhaps International promoters like Badi Nazhat have this in mind and that brings this next subject to mind.

Bonus Ball doesn't conflict with The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship. This event is about 3 weeks away and there are 40 Men players signed up for this event (out of 128 available spots) and there is $75,000.00 of added money waiting for the Men players in addition to the purses bulging from the entry fees. Transportation costs from Memphis are nil. Hotel rates are CHEAP. The event is only 4 days long.

What is the Men players' reasoning behind not supporting THIS EVENT like it should be supported?


The women have been all over the Women's event and have practically filled their field already. (Two thumbs up for the women who have supported The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship).
 

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
Larry may have agreed to use Diamond tables at one point, but that all went south when Diamond added the clause that was conditional on us using a 10' table in our TV arena (which doesn't interest us), yet have 9-footers in our practice rooms. It made no sense for our game, nor for our players. Plus it wouldn't physically fit in our arena.

They also later added a nearly 5-figure "installation" fee. That instantly ended any further dealings with Diamond. Sure, we never told them we found someone else, but nor did we ever agree to those terms. They essentially tried to sell us something, and we weren't interested. It's not the customers responsibility to refuse a sale.

Rasson gave us a great deal, paid all expenses, and outright gave us the tables we needed. They also offered to help promote the league, and they have a great modern product.

I still respect Greg at Diamond and enjoy his tables. There is no "bad guy" here. We simply didn't like the offer they made us and went elsewhere.

This really sounds creepy! Like Greg doesn't have better things to do with his tables then ship them cross country for months! He did so with the understanding that his tables would get publicity allowing for a substantially reduced rate.

Now he gets no publicity and lost out on the use of his tables in another venue generating real money for him for the multiple months they have been out there. He has to arrange for their return and etc.

I can't believe you see nothing wrong!

KD

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
It appears that Bonus Ball will continue on its road at least for the foreseeable future, which means this first bona fide upcoming season.

Players aren't going to give up the so-called guaranteed money with BB. Who can blame them? Promoters of the past have promised big numbers for the players only to be disappointed. Unfortunately, the players have been living on alms for a long time.

Pool's past and current promoters other than BB have to feel slighted and you can't blame them for feeling that way as well. What they do for retaliation is entirely up to them, if anything.

All of the talk about current promoters helping out a fellow promoter (BB) and being summarily dismissed without even a phone call, is not a good sign for the integrity of BB. I am not connected to BB and don't know the details but on the surface, it sounds like a terrible way to treat a fellow promoter. Maybe there is another side to the story and Larry will share that with us?

Anyway, pool will continue on with or without BB, or current promoters. It has been a bumpy road these many decades, so nothing has changed and nothing will change until there is real unity in pool. That unity can come only if pool becomes a self-sustaining entity (television advertising). Perhaps International promoters like Badi Nazhat have this in mind and that brings this next subject to mind.

Bonus Ball doesn't conflict with The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship. This event is about 3 weeks away and there are 40 Men players signed up for this event (out of 128 available spots) and there is $75,000.00 of added money waiting for the Men players in addition to the purses bulging from the entry fees. Transportation costs from Memphis are nil. Hotel rates are CHEAP. The event is only 4 days long.

What is the Men players' reasoning behind not supporting THIS EVENT like it should be supported?


The women have been all over the Women's event and have practically filled their field already. (Two thumbs up for the women who have supported The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship).

Joey, I believe the players might be waiting for some Bonus Ball dough to pay entries, expenses and other stuff, usually they like to sign up last minute also.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bonus Ball doesn't conflict with The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship. This event is about 3 weeks away and there are 40 Men players signed up for this event (out of 128 available spots) and there is $75,000.00 of added money waiting for the Men players in addition to the purses bulging from the entry fees. Transportation costs from Memphis are nil. Hotel rates are CHEAP. The event is only 4 days long.

What is the Men players' reasoning behind not supporting THIS EVENT like it should be supported?


That speaks volumes about the state of pro pool, here is a great event lots of added REAL $$$ and nobody is going, has it been so long since anyone won any $$$ they had to get real jobs? what is the explanation.


the Bonus Ball Locked up $$ isnt all that much after you subtract the expenses they will incure going and leaving Vegas and paying rent. They really aint locking up much $$ at all when you subtract over head.

Seems like $75K added that will be paid on the spot should attract more players, perhaps we just dont have that much talent left, i bet it will get fuller as time passes more of a regional event cause the $$$ is high enough someone will show up.


also the once bitten twice shy thing comes to mind, the Texas disaster(cant recall the city-they were $132,000 short, Chuck in Arizona who disappeared and mark griffen covered the top 7 players, US 9 ball open(that speaks for itself), after all that, i'd think twice.

I REALLY do wish you the best with this Joey, your a good person and done lots to help out, i deeply respect that
 

joelpope

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
In fairness, my understanding is that the Seminoles left because the board members who liked pool were replaced by board members who didn't care as much for pool. It had nothing to do with whether they were making money from pool.

Mike
How about the fact that their last tournament was a 50,000 added at Capones in FL that did not draw a full field... The pros did not support the Seminoles, why should they support the pros?
 

1 Lone Wolf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mizerak classic

How about the fact that their last tournament was a 50,000 added at Capones in FL that did not draw a full field... The pros did not support the Seminoles, why should they support the pros?

I played in this event, Nicest venue and hardly any fans. Quit blaming the Indians !!!!!!!!
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
I can't believe you see nothing wrong!

Why we should feel obligated to use a product from a company that is not in our best interest. Not only was the deal not acceptable or realistic, but another company made one much better. Diamond is a great product, paying to use tables that don't meet our requirements makes absolutely zero sense.

By going with Rasson we gain equity/assets with a product we want, yet you're saying we're at fault for refusing to pay nearly 10 grand to borrow a product we don't want.
 

1 Lone Wolf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mizerak classic

How about the fact that their last tournament was a 50,000 added at Capones in FL that did not draw a full field... The pros did not support the Seminoles, why should they support the pros?

I played in this event, Nicest venue and hardly any fans. Quit blaming the Indians !!!!!!!!
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Joey, I believe the players might be waiting for some Bonus Ball dough to pay entries, expenses and other stuff, usually they like to sign up last minute also.

Hopefully, that is all it is.

The promoter Badi Nazhat has proven himself to be an honorable and capable man with two major events under his belt and this is his third event.

Everyone got paid, everyone got treated like royalty.

This event is shaping up to be the same.

If I hadn't already obligated myself to working this event, I would play in it because by some miracle, I just might squeak by and win two matches against two other bangers like myself.
 

nb92

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Off the phone with Greg Sullivan, who by the way is one of the best men I've ever met in all my years in pool. He and Mark tried to help Larry out with Bonus Ball years ago, supplying tables for the six man shootout in Canada. Greg is not against Bonus Ball, he wants anything that is good for pool. What he is against is having it first held over his head at Derby City earlier this year and now again for the Southern Classic. Not cool imo either.

Greg and Larry made a verbal agreement where Diamond was going to supply ten or eleven tables free of charge for the first year/season. Greg's partner Chad had the tables shipped to Vegas, coordinating with Mark Griffin on the other end. The tables have been in Vegas for a long time now. Sometime after all this (when the tables had already been shipped), Larry made another deal with Rasson to be his table sponsor. To date he has never informed Greg of his change of plans.

That will give you (and me) some idea of how Larry operates. I know Greg Sullivan. He is not a whiner, a complainer or a liar.

Well this fact alone has made up my mind. I will never spend 1 red F'ing cent on ANYTHING to do with bonus ball... 1 - Diamond only puts together two of the biggest all around tournaments in the world.. (GREAT for FANS and Players)... 2 -- you are trying to start something in THIS COUNTRY... and sell it ... so... ya.. lets get the equipment from CHINA... Why don't you move the whole damn thing there? PLEASE...

New York.. this... Atlanta .. That... brought to by Hong Kong... :angry:

Looking at the BB schedule it would appear that the Filipino's and Shane think the schedule is just fine... more $$ for them
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
Well this fact alone has made up my mind.

Okay, let me make an analogy here:

You're looking for a table for your house.
-> Guy 1 offers you a table that wont physically fit into your games room, and is going to charge you for it.
-> Guy 2 offers you the perfect table for free, and will even pay to install it for you, but it's made in China.

Which will you choose?

It's not as definitive as you're making it out to be, especially with all that cursing. To each their own I guess.
 

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
Why we should feel obligated to use a product from a company that is not in our best interest. Not only was the deal not acceptable or realistic, but another company made one much better. Diamond is a great product, paying to use tables that don't meet our requirements makes absolutely zero sense.

By going with Rasson we gain equity/assets with a product we want, yet you're saying we're at fault for refusing to pay nearly 10 grand to borrow a product we don't want.

A deal is a deal! That is why bonus ball should feel obligated!!! He helped bonus ball out in their time of need!

Did it ever dawn on anyone at bonus ball the tables could be used in another venue or sold! Greg can't do that if the tables are out west and NO ONE says anything!!!

The issue is not using the other tables! The issue is not saying anything! The issue is misleading Diamond about your intentions to provide publicity for discounted tables. When the decision to shop tables was made don't you think bonus ball should have said something???

To say "the tables don't meet our requirements" what a laugh! The deal could have been all 9 foot tables! But, I am certain you never asked to swap the 10 footer for a 9 foot???

Better just to use smoke and mirrors and hide behind the assertion the tables did not meet our needs.

Kd



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDading
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
A deal is a deal!

A deal is only a deal when it stays constant. If the party making the offer changes it, it's no longer a deal anymore. It's a different offer entirely, and one to which we did not agree.

I am certain you never asked to swap the 10 footer for a 9 foot???

Yes, we asked for a 9 footer. They made using a 10 footer a requirement of the deal, which is not possible for us, nor desired.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
One wonders if a potential overseas market could have anything to do with the table choice? Perhaps that is part of the bigger picture that no one can identify regarding revenue streams for this project .....just thinking out loud
 

nb92

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A deal is a deal! That is why bonus ball should feel obligated!!! He helped bonus ball out in their time of need!

Did it ever dawn on anyone at bonus ball the tables could be used in another venue or sold! Greg can't do that if the tables are out west and NO ONE says anything!!!

The issue is not using the other tables! The issue is not saying anything! The issue is misleading Diamond about your intentions to provide publicity for discounted tables. When the decision to shop tables was made don't you think bonus ball should have said something???

To say "the tables don't meet our requirements" what a laugh! The deal could have been all 9 foot tables! But, I am certain you never asked to swap the 10 footer for a 9 foot???

Better just to use smoke and mirrors and hide behind the assertion the tables did not meet our needs.

Kd



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDading

Thank you... now that I have taken the nitro tab... my use to the language was exactly what was needed. I have been on the wait and see list with BB. Watch some videos (really don't like the game) but I am not the target audience, I like pool and actually can list the top 10 players (even some from China :thumbup:)

MY POINT... which seems to be lost on you... is this ... you have an American Company that is a large (maybe the largest) supporter of pool in the USA. YOU are setting up a new venture in the USA and with what appears to be head firmly planted in dark cavity make a decision that insults (not to overstating it) that support of pool in the USA.

I will ignore the current economic issues facing the country and try not to wrap myself in the flag... but "dude" really? If they gave you the best offer cool... go play out of Hong Kong...
 

brandoncook26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A deal is only a deal when it stays constant. If the party making the offer changes it, it's no longer a deal anymore. It's a different offer entirely, and one to which we did not agree.



Yes, we asked for a 9 footer. They made using a 10 footer a requirement of the deal, which is not possible for us, nor desired.

You say the use of a 10 footer wasn't desired, but wasn't the original idea the BB guys had to use a 10 footer? If it wasn't, then why is it in all the promo videos the announcers keep talking about the increased difficulty of the 10 footer when they are obviously playing on a 9 foot Brunswick?
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
You say the use of a 10 footer wasn't desired, but wasn't the original idea the BB guys had to use a 10 footer?

It was debated for a few weeks, but then disregarded. Bonus Ball is simply too difficult to play on a 10 footer. After the decision was made, we built the arena to fit a 9 footer.
 
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