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Touching the ONE-BALL in a 9-Ball Rack Creates an ADVANTAGE - Is This "Cheating" ?
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CJ Wiley
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Question Touching the ONE-BALL in a 9-Ball Rack Creates an ADVANTAGE - Is This "Cheating" ? - 01-10-2015, 05:07 AM

I highly recommend Joe Tucker's video on racking. Joe found out about the vulnerability of the 9 Ball rack back in the 90s and made the video in an attempt to educate and protect players from skulduggery. The 10-Ball rack is also easy to manipulate, just in a different way, especially using "racking templates".

What Joe discovered in his research is the ONE-BALL NOT being froze is actually an advantage (we've been led to believe that having the one-ball not frozen is bad, when it's actually good - IF you know how to use this info to determine where to break from).

However, you can use the one-ball to create intentional gaps.

When you see Joe's video he will mention "gaps" quite often, although he won't show you how to create them. Joe's an honorable guy and didn't want to show people how to create an advantage, instead he shows what to look for to protect yourself from intentional manipulation when your opponent's racking.

I won't "spill the beans," I'll just say there's something called the "Forward Press," and the "Back Press." - to "load" a 9-Ball rack you press the one back, to "load" the 10-Ball rack you press the middle, back two balls forward. This creates a chain reaction within the rack and manipulates the balls on the other end.

Either way, if you see someone fiddling with the one-ball they are up to no good (also goes for pressing the back two balls playing 10-Ball). Watch some players very closely at TURNING STONE and you'll see exactly what I'm referring to.

This is one reason I don't like competing at 9-Ball as it's played now, it's become a "racking war". When I was competing full time we had a "gentleman's agreement" not to check the referee's rack (Oh, yeah, I forgot there are no more referees, do you now wonder why?) . I recommend Joe's DVD - LEARN this technique or face the consequences!!! click this picture for more info on racking secrets - before it costs you another match


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Joe Tucker introduced the art of reading racks in 1999 with his highly recommended and out of print book “Racking Secrets”. Now Joe comes to you via DVD and clearly explains and then demonstrates how this powerful knowledge (is utilized).

He starts off with 9 Ball and shows you how we all had it backwards. He shows why and how the wing balls do and don’t go. Shows you how to adjust your cue ball speed and placement according to how the balls are racked. He shows you how to make more and give up less 9 Balls on the break!!!


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01-10-2015, 05:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
I highly recommend Joe Tucker's video on racking. Joe found out about the vulnerability of the 9 Ball rack back in the 90s and made the video in an attempt to educate and protect players from skulduggery. The 10-Ball rack is also easy to manipulate, just in a different way, especially using "racking templates".

What Joe discovered in his research is the ONE-BALL NOT being froze is actually an advantage (we've been led to believe that having the one-ball not frozen is bad, when it's actually good - IF you know how to use this info to determine where to break from).

However, you can use the one-ball to create intentional gaps.

When you see Joe's video he will mention "gaps" quite often, although he won't show you how to create them. Joe's an honorable guy and didn't want to show people how to create an advantage, instead he shows what to look for to protect yourself from intentional manipulation when your opponent's racking.

I won't "spill the beans," I'll just say there's something called the "Forward Press," and the "Back Press." - to "load" a 9-Ball rack you press the one back, to "load" the 10-Ball rack you press the middle, back two balls forward. This creates a chain reaction within the rack and manipulates the balls on the other end.

Either way, if you see someone fiddling with the one-ball they are up to no good (also goes for pressing the back two balls playing 10-Ball). Watch some players very closely at TURNING STONE and you'll see exactly what I'm referring to.

This is one reason I don't like competing at 9-Ball as it's played now, it's become a "racking war". When I was competing full time we had a "gentleman's agreement" not to check the referee's rack (Oh, yeah, I forgot there are no more referees, do you now wonder why?) . I recommend Joe's DVD - LEARN this technique or face the consequences!!! click this picture for more info on racking secrets - before it costs you another match
I'm a high B player and in a rack your own match against a low level A player who doesn't know much about racking, I usually come on top why? Because of Joe Tucker

In my humble opinion, if you have a neutral racket with no inspection, the game would be different! Also, after the break, should always be a push, no matter what

And yes, it should be illegal to touch ANY balls after the rack is removed!!!
  
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01-10-2015, 05:56 AM

This is a problem in American tournaments only, with no ref. Joe Tucker's 9 ball racking secrets is a very informative video with no BS in it. I didn't get anywhere as much out of the 10 ball video, but I think that's because I play on a 7' table. Until promoters can afford a ref at each table, the MR is the way to go. If either rack your own or loser racks your going to have problems in 9 & 10 ball. EVREY BODY KNOWS THAT. Johnnyt


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The "gaps" in 10-Ball are not necessarily to pocket balls easier,
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Arrow The "gaps" in 10-Ball are not necessarily to pocket balls easier, - 01-10-2015, 06:15 AM

What about racking the 9-Ball on the spot? This eleminates the corner ball issue and the "presses" aren't nearly as effective.

I have to disagree about the magic rack playing 10-Ball, it makes the manipulation "move" easier and more effective. When you know the "inside knowledge" and touch the one ball after the balls are racked you can create effective create gaps.

The "gaps" in 10-Ball are not necessarily to pocket balls easier, it serves another purpose, can you guess what that is?


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Originally Posted by Johnnyt View Post
This is a problem in American tournaments only, with no ref. Joe Tucker's 9 ball racking secrets is a very informative video with no BS in it. I didn't get anywhere as much out of the 10 ball video, but I think that's because I play on a 7' table. Until promoters can afford a ref at each table, the MR is the way to go. If either rack your own or loser racks your going to have problems in 9 & 10 ball. EVREY BODY KNOWS THAT. Johnnyt


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01-10-2015, 06:31 AM

There should be a rule against touching the rack once its set, except of course with something like the magic rack where you need to push the balls in a bit at times to get them to settle against each other.


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01-10-2015, 06:32 AM

Thanks to racking secrets you have B players staring into the rack at god knows what. They break wide open. Not trying to make the one in side , the wing ball or squat whitey. Just slows the game. I will let anybody under AA level rack their own to avoid aggrivation.

We need to speed up the game for the fans. It gets worse every year with the racking issues.
  
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01-10-2015, 07:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
There should be a rule against touching the rack once its set, except of course with something like the magic rack where you need to push the balls in a bit at times to get them to settle against each other.
I agree. There should be no touching of balls, once the triangle is removed.


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01-10-2015, 09:58 AM

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Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
I agree. There should be no touching of balls, once the triangle is removed.
A player can manipulate the rack before the triangle is removed, by minutely rolling the one ball backwards and creating movement on the second and third outside balls, so that the wing ball (third ball) is easier to pocket (in 9 ball) under the guise of trying to "freeze the balls". It is difficult to see the movement of the second and third ball because it is very slight. I have noticed that when you don't allow your opponent to do this movement, they find it much more difficult to make the wing ball. Who'd have thunkit?

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01-10-2015, 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
I highly recommend Joe Tucker's video on racking. Joe found out about the vulnerability of the 9 Ball rack back in the 90s and made the video in an attempt to educate and protect players from skulduggery. The 10-Ball rack is also easy to manipulate, just in a different way, especially using "racking templates"...
Joe T.'s video is some of the best money I've ever spent in pool!

Best,
Mike
  
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01-10-2015, 10:27 AM

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Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
What about racking the 9-Ball on the spot? This eleminates the corner ball issue and the "presses" aren't nearly as effective.
Tournaments need to use the 'Watchez Spot' --- move the rack DOWN the table, not up. One spot width down.


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01-10-2015, 10:44 AM

Touching the one ball should be the topic of a rule change in both 9 ball and 10 ball.
  
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01-10-2015, 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
A player can manipulate the rack before the triangle is removed, by minutely rolling the one ball backwards and creating movement on the second and third outside balls, so that the wing ball (third ball) is easier to pocket (in 9 ball) under the guise of trying to "freeze the balls". It is difficult to see the movement of the second and third ball because it is very slight. I have noticed that when you don't allow your opponent to do this movement, they find it much more difficult to make the wing ball. Who'd have thunkit?

JoeyA
BINGO!!!!! Winner winner chicken dinner!!!! Once you can master the distance needed and the consistent break, you will make the wing ball! And the break is not difficult at all because you can use YOUR break for the most part! You just have to remain consistent!

Push out after the break fixes the rack issue!
  
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01-10-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
I highly recommend Joe Tucker's video on racking. Joe found out about the vulnerability of the 9 Ball rack back in the 90s and made the video in an attempt to educate and protect players from skulduggery. The 10-Ball rack is also easy to manipulate, just in a different way, especially using "racking templates".

What Joe discovered in his research is the ONE-BALL NOT being froze is actually an advantage (we've been led to believe that having the one-ball not frozen is bad, when it's actually good - IF you know how to use this info to determine where to break from).

However, you can use the one-ball to create intentional gaps.

When you see Joe's video he will mention "gaps" quite often, although he won't show you how to create them. Joe's an honorable guy and didn't want to show people how to create an advantage, instead he shows what to look for to protect yourself from intentional manipulation when your opponent's racking.

I won't "spill the beans," I'll just say there's something called the "Forward Press," and the "Back Press." - to "load" a 9-Ball rack you press the one back, to "load" the 10-Ball rack you press the middle, back two balls forward. This creates a chain reaction within the rack and manipulates the balls on the other end.

Either way, if you see someone fiddling with the one-ball they are up to no good
(also goes for pressing the back two balls playing 10-Ball). Watch some players very closely at TURNING STONE and you'll see exactly what I'm referring to.

This is one reason I don't like competing at 9-Ball as it's played now, it's become a "racking war". When I was competing full time we had a "gentleman's agreement" not to check the referee's rack (Oh, yeah, I forgot there are no more referees, do you now wonder why?) . I recommend Joe's DVD - LEARN this technique or face the consequences!!! click this picture for more info on racking secrets - before it costs you another match
The part I put in red is what I would expect to hear from someone that likes to rig racks. And, is a very unfair and untrue statement. The majority of people touching the one are just trying to get it frozen to the first two balls.

Also, I've heard of loading the rack several times on here. Yet, not one single person has been able to explain what they are even talking about. The balls are either touching, or they aren't touching. You are not going to get them any tighter than touching, not matter what you may think. They are round balls on a flat surface.
  
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01-10-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Also, I've heard of loading the rack several times on here. Yet, not one single person has been able to explain what they are even talking about. The balls are either touching, or they aren't touching.
The way I understand "loading" the rack is "intentionally" creating small gaps between "certain" balls in the rack to allow "other" balls to pass them "easier" in the attempt to pocket a ball with a bit more consistency.

I have never practiced what I have read to see if it works because it is cheating. Maybe I will experiment tomorrow when I go for my weekly play just to see how much it affects things.

I use a Magic rack or the SOLO rack and don't have any problems. I think EVERYBODY should use one. As long as ALL the balls are touching, I don't think anyone has an advantage.

The other way of cheating that I have noticed is "intentionally" tilting the rack to one side or the other. That is why I advocate a line be drawn from the end rail to the spot to ensure they are lined up straight.

Aloha.
  
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01-10-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
The part I put in red is what I would expect to hear from someone that likes to rig racks. And, is a very unfair and untrue statement. The majority of people touching the one are just trying to get it frozen to the first two balls.

Also, I've heard of loading the rack several times on here. Yet, not one single person has been able to explain what they are even talking about. The balls are either touching, or they aren't touching. You are not going to get them any tighter than touching, not matter what you may think. They are round balls on a flat surface.
Neil, At one time you were one of my favorite posters. I don't understand why you constantly chase CJ's every post on here and try to pick it apart. What has the guy done to you to deserve this stalking behavior?? IMO the mods should give this type of aggressive stalking a lengthy time out. It's wrong and it shouldn't be tolerated on any forum.
  
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