New Public 8 Ball Instructors

Ok, you guys got together and figured all these rules out and they're the best....

At the beginning of the game you put the quarters in the slot...

The breaker just happens to make another ball along with the 8

The eight gets spotted.....

You then expect someone to pay just to get the 8 out of the trough....

It's been pocketed, it's down, how do I get it out without paying yet again....

You guys thought this out really well. That is the most obvious problem with your rules... should I go on?


edited: for grammar and still not sure it's all right

rjrichard said:

Ok you guys got together and figured all these rules out and it's the best....

At the beginning of the game you put the quarters in the slot...

The breaker makes both the eight and another ball....

The eight gets spotted.....

I'm not paying another $1+ to spot the eight...

It's been pocketed, it's down, how do I get it out without paying yet again....

You guys thought this out really well. That is the most obvious problem with your rules... should I go on...

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While the 8 on the break doesn't count in World Standardized rules or the BCAPL either, you do make a point. That is that there will always be some difference in 8 Ball rules as a concession to coin op tables. There really doesn't need to be yet another rule set out there, especially this one. If the goal is to have everyone play by a standard set of rules then isn't it simpler to adopt the rules that are already recognized the world over by professionals and serious players? Adjust as needed for coin-op play. This manifesto doesn't seem to combine normally played rules into one uniform package but introduces offbeat concepts and silly rules combined with "unique" terminology NOBODY uses, including bar banging drunks. Dare I say a person is far more likely to get their a$$ kicked pulling some of this stuff.

In any event, this is hardly worth even discussing because it isn't going to catch on. Casual bangers just don't care enough anyway to seriously adopt ANY rule set, and local rules in bars will always be local rules. Even many casual players know enough to consider much of the stuff in this set silly. And certainly this will never affect the way the game is played among the community of real pool players.

DogsPlayingPool said:

While the 8 on the break doesn't count in World Standardized rules or the BCAPL either, you do make a point. That is that there will always be some difference in 8 Ball rules as a concession to coin op tables. There really doesn't need to be yet another rule set out there, especially this one. If the goal is to have everyone play by a standard set of rules then isn't it simpler to adopt the rules that are already recognized the world over by professionals and serious players? Adjust as needed for coin-op play. This manifesto doesn't seem to combine normally played rules into one uniform package but introduces offbeat concepts and silly rules combined with "unique" terminology NOBODY uses, including bar banging drunks. Dare I say a person is far more likely to get their a$$ kicked pulling some of this stuff.

In any event, this is hardly worth even discussing because it isn't going to catch on. Casual bangers just don't care enough anyway to seriously adopt ANY rule set, and local rules in bars will always be local rules. Even many casual players know enough to consider much of the stuff in this set silly. And certainly this will never affect the way the game is played among the community of real pool players.

Click to expand...

I agree with you totally. I was just showing that their rules have a severe contradiction early on in their list. Supposedly they are the cavaliers of "public" pool players but yet they expect them to dish up extra money just to spot the 8. As I'm reading on, I'm finding many more problems in their theory. Just want a rationalization for this one first.

Come on over to my area poolkiller you get 2 on the wire for life lol

Sent from my USCCADR3305 using Tapatalk 2

FranCrimi said:

...who may try their ram shot, the one where you take a running leap towards the table and shoot while still airborne.

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Really? What page is that on?

Pre-Flag Master said:

Really? What page is that on?

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I found it (the "ram shot"), page 19. He says the shot is not likely to work and is not recommended. Really? So then why put it in the guide?

"Not likely to work and not recommended" should be the post-script for the entire document.

To the author, traditionally people who write documents are considered to be experts on the topic. Did you not know that you are no expert on billiards?

Ok, I know you're banned, and cannot reply but this is where I see a serious problem:

Poolkillers81 said:

Instead of adapting themselves to the game (like in official 8 Ball), they need to adapt the game to themselves if they want to come out on top.

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Now that's a little worrisome. If you can't win, change the rules?

I posted a link in your previous topic for learning to play pool. It contains all of the basic information you need in order to play better, without changing any rules. The author of the video is an instructor, a very well known one.

The other issue that was brought up and you should pay attention to was that casual players don't read the rules, or take the time to learn to play. This is key. They just hear about a rule, either from their parent or mentor, and assume it is correct. That's why there are so many variations. Writing another set of rules won't help.

What will help is learning the World Standardized Rules, following them, and passing them on to others. Much like Golf, there's one set of rules. Baseball is the same.

Thanks for putting in the time to write down your thoughts in any event. I'll leave you some links below to follow so you don't have to dig for them:

Learn to play pool in 10 minutes

World Standardized Rules

As I said before, good luck in your game.

Banned, how do you know?

PGHteacher said:

Banned, how do you know?

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Check under his name in the OP.

Aside from the word, "Banned", under his name, you cannot add reputation as the box is missing.

Thanks I feel dumb oh well I am still new to this site.

PGHteacher said:

Thanks I feel dumb oh well I am still new to this site.

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No worries, everyone's a new fish at some point.

It's too bad he got banned - but I do want to address his challenge to debate logically.

The #1 and main flaw with your rules (I won't even discuss the strategy portion) is that you do not fulfill the needs of a 'game'

A game of skill by definition has to require the participants to exercise a skill in order to participate and win in it. In the case of pool, the skill is striking the cue ball so it contacts another ball. Making the ball is secondary, and a requirement of winning, but just hitting another ball is the basic skill required.

In many games, pool included, included in the rules are provisions on what should happen if you do not execute the basic skill. In addition, many games allow you to purposefully not exercise your skill, or prevent your opponent from doing so. The intentional walk and 'taking a foul' in 14.1 or one-pocket are good examples. However, these decisions are always met with a penalty of some sort, like having a runner on first, losing a ball on your count, or giving ball in hand. This penalty is most often enforced to allow the game to end, which is also a basic requirement to being defined as a 'game'

Your rule set breaks all of these guidelines with your '0 power' shot, and the fact it is not a foul. By not requiring the participants to actually engage in the skill required to play the game, nor penalize them for not doing so, you cannot have a game. It is stated in the rules specifically that the exchange of 0 power shots back and forth between 2 players can continue indefinitely. This also violates the requirement that the game have an end, which is the result of no penalty for not actually playing.

So in review, the fact that you wrote rules for a game that by it's very nature don't meet the basic requirements for a 'game' means they are null and void, meaning the logic and strategy required to participate are just as pointless, rendering the reading of the strategy unimportant.

I cannot believe I am posting in this thread. It is like a car wreck; I don't want to look but I can't not look.

There are people I have met and respect posting in this thread as well. Maybe they all have a warped sense of humor.

Poolkiller 81:

Have you recently withdrawn from a doctoral program?

Have you recently dyed you hair red?

Have you ever used the pseudonymn "The Joker"?

I finally read a little of his manifesto... I mean guide and couldn't get past the description of the pool table. Turns out I got ripped off, my Gold Crown didn't come with a ball exit hole !

(I can't stop grinning over that phrase.)

This is all my fault. I emailed the guy and linked to the original thread where someone stumbled on his booklet. Tried to explain how and why what he wrote was a horrible idea and sent a link to the thread so he can hear from other people about it. Instead, the guy seemed to have gone full blown insane and started posting his stuff like it was the gospel of pool knowledge.

As was pointed out several times, the only explanation for continuing his ideas is drinking too much paint thinner in the teen years.

hang-the-9 said:

This is all my fault. I emailed the guy and linked to the original thread where someone stumbled on his booklet. Tried to explain how and why what he wrote was a horrible idea and sent a link to the thread so he can hear from other people about it. Instead, the guy seemed to have gone full blown insane and started posting his stuff like it was the gospel of pool knowledge.

As was pointed out several times, the only explanation for continuing his ideas is drinking too much paint thinner in the teen years.

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I have a feeling poolkiller was the same guy that started that first thread. I thought it odd when he asked our opinions about it and we gave them he started to argue with us about it.

DogsPlayingPool said:

I have a feeling poolkiller was the same guy that started that first thread. I thought it odd when he asked our opinions about it and we gave them he started to argue with us about it.

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Could be, the writing style is a bit different, but the way he started arguing about the comments does bring up a red flag.

It's actually a bit sad that the poolkiller account got banned, I was really hoping that someone here would be able to meet with them in a room so he/they could demonstrate the benefits of the new rules and playing styles to them.

I don't think I have ever seen anyone, outside of religion, have so much resistance to such an overwhelming amount of reason and proof. Even my 12 yr old son finally realized that listening to instruction from better players is better than just hitting balls around at random. When I get a quote from my son "these rules sound like the rules I made up when I was 8 so I can win", you know your work is going down the wrong path.