Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page My Simonis cloth plays extremely slow? Help or Advice Appreciated
Reply
Page 1 of 4 1 23 Last »
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
My Simonis cloth plays extremely slow? Help or Advice Appreciated
Old
  (#1)
jtothea
AzB Bronze Member
jtothea is on a distinguished road
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 29
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Oct 2015
   
My Simonis cloth plays extremely slow? Help or Advice Appreciated - 11-06-2018, 08:05 PM

Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
ChrisinNC
AzB Silver Member
ChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Boone, NC
   
11-06-2018, 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtothea View Post
Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.
Very obvious to tell the difference between the two sides of Simonis cloth. The correct side is very smooth, finished and shiny as opposed to the down side. If a table mechanic made the mistake of installing Simonis upside down, it was likely the first time they had ever seen and used Simonis.

If you look at the close-up photo of post #3 in the Cyclop Hyperion Pool Balls thread, that is what the top side of new Simonis 860 Tournament Blue should look like.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 11-06-2018 at 08:18 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 14,408
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
11-06-2018, 08:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Very obvious to tell the difference between the two sides of Simonis cloth. The correct side is very smooth, finished and shiny as opposed to the down side. If a table mechanic made the mistake of installing Simonis upside down, it was likely the first time they had ever seen and used Simonis.

If you look at the close-up photo of post #3 in the Cyclop Hyperion Pool Balls thread, that is what the top side of new Simonis 860 Tournament Blue should look like.
I thought that Simonis also has the name stamped around the edge on the side that is supposed to go up.

Another factor might be how tightly they stretched it when they put it on. The top installers I've seen work really hard at getting the cloth tight.

The OP might also try the Ask a Mechanic forum.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
jtothea
AzB Bronze Member
jtothea is on a distinguished road
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 29
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Oct 2015
   
11-06-2018, 08:37 PM

Thanks for you alls input. I did't want to question the installers knowledge because they are reputable but it just plays uncharacteristically slow to me. I'm just a decent recreational player but I know the difference between how quality cues feel and how tables play to some degree.
Here are some pics of the cloth.
Attached Images
   
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
jtothea
AzB Bronze Member
jtothea is on a distinguished road
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 29
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Oct 2015
   
11-06-2018, 08:40 PM

My brother and friends who play on it call it the "blue jean table"
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
WildWing
AzB Silver Member
WildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond reputeWildWing has a reputation beyond repute
 
WildWing's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 2,735
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Nov 2011
   
11-06-2018, 08:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I thought that Simonis also has the name stamped around the edge on the side that is supposed to go up.

Another factor might be how tightly they stretched it when they put it on. The top installers I've seen work really hard at getting the cloth tight.

The OP might also try the Ask a Mechanic forum.
Correct. Simonis is on the top side, should be obvious to the installer.

One not so obvious point is that Simonis stretches out fairly quickly, and that's not good for maintaining speed, as it gets loose over time. If you can feel it moving around underneath your hand, then it will lose speed.

All the best,
WW
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,116
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
11-06-2018, 08:43 PM

Humidity slows tables a lot. Also room air condition can slow them also.
Try get room temperature up if cool.
Simonis 860 especially is slow if there is a lot humidity. 860 HR is better for those but only about 2 - 3 months after that it seems to play same as normal 860.
My local pool room has a really cool air condition and tables are cellar floor. They play always really slow. No matter what you try.


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
Straightpool_99
I see dead balls
Straightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Straightpool_99's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,477
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: Feb 2006
   
11-06-2018, 09:00 PM

860 does slow down A LOT over time. If you're used to 760, you'll be shocked at how fast 860 loses it's speed and becomes basically a rug. Which is quite interesting, because in the beginning it's lightening fast. 760 starts out being unplayably fast, then gradually becomes better (IMO) and then maintains a nice speed with some slowness creeping in, until it falls apart. If you somehow manage to keep it from falling apart and wear it paper thin it will actually speed up in the end!

Humidity will slow down cloth, but especially cloth with high wool content, like 860. Keep it dry and reasonably warm in your room. If the cloth has gotten loose, it can be restretched. Probably not worth it to pay for that, but if you have the guts to do it yourself, it may be worth it. Could give the cloth new life. Also, worsted cloth can be carefully cleaned with a barely moist microfiber cloth, but doing so will temporarily slow down the speed of it. Some people do this way to often (shouldn't need to do this more than maybe once a month). Ideally do it after you're done playing, so the cloth dries out before you play next time).

Generally speaking, thicker slated tables tend to let the ball roll longer, and fast rails will give an illusion of faster cloth, so both those are factors that may play a role in your perceived difference between the pool hall and your house. My money is on 1: Plain old 860 wear induced slowness, 2. Humidity, 3 loose cloth, 4 all of the above.
  
Reply With Quote
My Simonis cloth plays extremely slow? Help or Advice Appreciated
Old
  (#9)
Tommy-D
World's best B player...
Tommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond reputeTommy-D has a reputation beyond repute
 
Tommy-D's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,585
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2003
   
My Simonis cloth plays extremely slow? Help or Advice Appreciated - 11-07-2018, 05:09 AM

Can someone post a pic of what it looks like when the cloth is installed upside down? The pool room here recently recovered one of their tables in the normal green 860 HR and I'm not bullshittin it has more nap on it than any Simonis I've ever seen,so either they got bad cloth or the local they let install it did it wrong . Tommy D.


"I'm going to try to work it out so at the end its a pure guts race.............because if it is..............I'm the only one that can win." Steve Prefontaine
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
ChrisinNC
AzB Silver Member
ChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Boone, NC
   
11-07-2018, 06:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtothea View Post
Hi everyone, I had powder blue simonis 860 installed on my table (Brunswick 8ft) about a year ago by a reputable local installer / table mechanic. My father also new worsted cloth installed on his table (Olhausen 8ft) around the same time from a different company. When comparing tables, mine plays extremely slow compared to his. I also noticed that his tables cloth seems much more smooth and silky (its also a different color than mine) . I can't help but to wander if my cloth was installed wrong or upside down as it plays much slower than the local pool halls 7ft diamond tables as well. I understand that our rubber on the rails are different providing different bounce speed, but I wouldn't think that it should effect the speed this much.

Could it be just the fact that they are two different tables? Or possibly his may have a 760 or a different brand. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell if it was installed upside down or how to determine if the speed is correct? If it wasn't for the specific color I got, I would have even questioned that it was indeed simonis?

Its still frustrating a year later considering the price I paid.
From you photo you included on post #4, you can be assured the correct side is on top. Only issues relating to the speed of the cloth could be: Balls not being clean, cloth wasn't stretched on as tight as possible, humid conditions in the room it's in, or cushion rubbers that are not playing lively - although that would still not affect how fast the balls roll on the cloth.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
ChrisinNC
AzB Silver Member
ChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond reputeChrisinNC has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Boone, NC
   
11-07-2018, 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-D View Post
Can someone post a pic of what it looks like when the cloth is installed upside down? The pool room here recently recovered one of their tables in the normal green 860 HR and I'm not bullshittin it has more nap on it than any Simonis I've ever seen,so either they got bad cloth or the local they let install it did it wrong . Tommy D.
A number of years ago, at the BCA Junior Nationals held at a major university poolroom, all 20+ tables were re-covered with new Simonis (one of the sponsors of the event) that was installed upside-down by local installers that clearly had no idea what they were doing. As there was no time or cloth to make the correction, the entire tournament was played on the upside-down Simonis cloth. The down side of Simonis actually looks a lot like the old fuzzier mali cloth used to look on the correct up side.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
bradsh98
Bradshaw Billiard Service
bradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond reputebradsh98 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 620
vCash: 500
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Upstate New York Region
   
11-07-2018, 06:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
From you photo you included on post #4, you can be assured the correct side is on top. Only issues relating to the speed of the cloth could be: Balls not being clean, cloth wasn't stretched on as tight as possible, humid conditions in the room it's in, or cushion rubbers that are not playing lively - although that would still not affect how fast the balls roll on the cloth.
I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.


Geoff Bradshaw
Bradshaw Billiard Service

I play with a Hammond Custom Cue. You should too.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
slach
AzB Silver Member
slach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond reputeslach has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 427
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Feb 2008
   
11-07-2018, 07:06 AM

Can you cut a small piece of cloth hanging somewhere around the edge of the slate? From a small piece it's pretty obvious which side should be up, the up side is much smoother than the down and the down side's a bit fuzzy.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
rexus31
AzB Silver Member
rexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond reputerexus31 has a reputation beyond repute
 
rexus31's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 917
vCash: 542
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Gabriel, CA
   
11-07-2018, 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsh98 View Post
I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.
I'm with you.


"What 'aint no country I ever heard of. They speak English in What?" - Jules Winnfield
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
ChicagoRJ
EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
ChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoRJ has a reputation beyond repute
 
ChicagoRJ's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 32,287
vCash: 500
iTrader: 80 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 35 miles West of Chiraq
   
11-07-2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsh98 View Post
I disagree...

That cloth is upside-down.
Thank's for the expert opinion. I wanted to chime in because my Simonis does NOT look like this guys, and I know mine is correct. So, either wrong cloth or incorrectly installed. I'd be calling this installer up right away to re-do this.


We welcome Dennis Hatch to TZAR Tips

RUSSIAN Magic Chalk - "The Best Chalk of the World"

"I have been playing pool for 60 years and started using Kamui about four years ago. I tried Magic Chalk several months ago and will use it from now on" - jrhendy - Noted Player and Gambler

Baltic BLUE & Chernobyl GREEN


Check us out in "For Sale" section on AZB


ChicagoRJ, the Minister of Truth and Magic Chalk. - WGDave

Last edited by ChicagoRJ; 11-07-2018 at 11:49 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 4 1 23 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.