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Poolplaya9
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11-08-2018, 06:50 AM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
Omg they might lose and then never make a ball again. BS!

You think at this level these guys have never lost a match or tournament and then won the next week or next day or next match?
When you are a C player and you play a B player who destroys you, do you really think that is going to improve your confidence in your ability to win against the A player you have to face in two weeks? That's silly. What it usually does is reinforce to you that you are in a totally different league from the A player and have no realistic chance in your upcoming match with him and that doesn't generally translate into playing your best pool.

That is only part of the equation though. For those that had any doubts, it also confirms to the fans that the C player has no chance against the A player because they just saw the B player wipe the floor with them so they aren't so interested in watching the A and C match up now, and aren't going to be so gung ho in rooting for the C player, etc.

Now if the C player beats the B player then it could boost their confidence for when they have to face the A player, but that is a pretty dumb risk to take so close to the main match when the odds for beating the B player weren't very good.
  
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11-08-2018, 08:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Poolplaya9 View Post
When you are a C player and you play a B player who destroys you, do you really think that is going to improve your confidence in your ability to win against the A player you have to face in two weeks? That's silly. What it usually does is reinforce to you that you are in a totally different league from the A player and have no realistic chance in your upcoming match with him and that doesn't generally translate into playing your best pool.

That is only part of the equation though. For those that had any doubts, it also confirms to the fans that the C player has no chance against the A player because they just saw the B player wipe the floor with them so they aren't so interested in watching the A and C match up now, and aren't going to be so gung ho in rooting for the C player, etc.

Now if the C player beats the B player then it could boost their confidence for when they have to face the A player, but that is a pretty dumb risk to take so close to the main match when the odds for beating the B player weren't very good.
I disagree with this premise. IT may hold true for your average banger, but these guys are Professionals. The Cleveland Browns lose every week basically. How many players on that roster are scared to play? Or go into the next Sunday knowing accepting defeat? None. It's not how professionals are wired.

Even Cory Duel made a comment earlier to the effect of " don't believe this BS that Americans are so far behind everyone else, I've been beating them in tournaments all year". (I am paraphrasing his quote, but It was on one of his his social media accounts.
  
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11-08-2018, 08:38 AM

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Originally Posted by jokrswylde View Post
I disagree with this premise. IT may hold true for your average banger, but these guys are Professionals. The Cleveland Browns lose every week basically. How many players on that roster are scared to play? Or go into the next Sunday knowing accepting defeat? None. It's not how professionals are wired.

Even Cory Duel made a comment earlier to the effect of " don't believe this BS that Americans are so far behind everyone else, I've been beating them in tournaments all year". (I am paraphrasing his quote, but It was on one of his his social media accounts.
More curious if a loss here for US could hurt viewer numbers for the main event.
  
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11-08-2018, 08:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Benward452 View Post
More curious if a loss here for US could hurt viewer numbers for the main event.
Well there is not many that watch it here. Over there I'm sure they will come out in droves to watch the US get clubbed like a baby seal as often as possible.
  
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Poolplaya9
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11-08-2018, 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokrswylde View Post
I disagree with this premise. IT may hold true for your average banger, but these guys are Professionals. The Cleveland Browns lose every week basically. How many players on that roster are scared to play? Or go into the next Sunday knowing accepting defeat? None. It's not how professionals are wired.

Even Cory Duel made a comment earlier to the effect of " don't believe this BS that Americans are so far behind everyone else, I've been beating them in tournaments all year". (I am paraphrasing his quote, but It was on one of his his social media accounts.
I think you just didn't really think this out. For starters, I didn't saying it would make them play 50 Fargo points lower than normal. I said it would likely have an effect on the team that won't be on the positive side. Do you really think they are going to play better after a recent loss to a lesser team than Team Europe?

Anybody past the level of being a half decent player knows that confidence plays a part in how well you perform, and when you are confident you tend to play better, and when you lack confidence you tend to play worse. It may be a little effect, or it may be a lot, but it is usually there for most people at any level.

Do you really think you are going to be as confident as a C player against an A player after you just got your a$$ handed to you by a B player, than you would be if you didn't just get wooped by that B player? While stranger things have happened, we all know this isn't likely. Your confidence going in to the Mosconi Cup is likely to be a little down as a result, and this is likely to lead to a little less quality in your play than you would have had had you not just had this recent a$$ wooping from an even lesser player than the one you are about to face.

As I also mentioned though, if you do pull out the win against the B player you are likely to get a confidence boost, so we have to see what happens in that match, but considering the likely odds against team England it just wasn't a smart gamble to take this close to the Cup IMO.

As far as Corey's quote, it has nothing to do with what we are discussing, but to address it, even if Corey was favored over the whole team Europe, he is only one person, and there is a whole team that is playing. It just so happens that Corey is an underdog to all of team Europe though, and fairly significantly so to most of them. Now if you are really trying to argue that the American team is just as good as team Europe, which seems to be kind of the insinuation, then I think that is plain nuts, but that argument is for another thread.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the Team England roster so depending on who is on it, if they aren't in fact significantly favored over team USA like everybody is thinking they will be, then that changes some things.

Last edited by Poolplaya9; 11-08-2018 at 09:00 AM.
  
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11-08-2018, 09:27 AM

The England roster is in the first post of the thread. It's close, but I wouldn't bet on the US in this match.

SVB.......820
.
..............794....Mark Gray
..............790....Appleton
Sky........785
..............783....Melling
..............781....Boyes
Corey.....780
..............777....Majid
Billy........763
.
Styer......730

Last edited by BRussell; 11-08-2018 at 09:36 AM.
  
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11-08-2018, 09:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolplaya9 View Post
I

Do you really think you are going to be as confident as a C player against an A player after you just got your a$$ handed to you by a B player, than you would be if you didn't just get wooped by that B player? While stranger things have happened, we all know this isn't likely. Your confidence going in to the Mosconi Cup is likely to be a little down as a result, and this is likely to lead to a little less quality in your play than you would have had had you not just had this recent a$$ wooping from an even lesser player than the one you are about to face.



.
I agree that confidence can effect outcome. Here is where we disagree. The US team is not a team of C players. The Euros will certainly be favored and should win. But the average fargo rate for the Euros is 801. For the US is 775. Certainly not a large enough gap to consider the US a C team compared to an A team.

Substitute JB for Styer and the FR for team USA goes up to 789. ( I realize FR, is just one metric, but my point is pros are pros. Not everyone can be Tom Brady, but even the worst NFL QB is pretty dang good.)
  
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11-08-2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
The England roster is in the first post of the thread. It's close, but I wouldn't bet on the US in this match.

SVB.......820
.
..............794....Mark Gray
..............790....Appleton
Sky........785
..............783....Melling
..............781....Boyes
Corey.....780
..............777....Majid
Billy........763
.
Styer......730
I agree about England being the favorite here.

But for all the others, I will take 2 to 1. My 500 to your 1,000

I will also take the USA in MC at 4 to 1, my $1,000 to your $4,000

Jason
  
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USA vs. England, MC warmup
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USA vs. England, MC warmup - 11-08-2018, 10:40 AM

Here’s what I expect will happen if they lose.

1) They acknowledge anything can happen in short races
2) They point out the lack of audience makes what they’ll face in the cup is different
3) They’ll point out it was good practice / preparation
4) They’ll identify the mistakes they made and promise to work on them in the time leading up to the cup to be even stronger
5) They’ll say their confidence is still high because they know they are capable of bringing world class play to the cup (even if they didn’t bring it to the challenge match)

To some degree that’s all spin. But on the other hand, it’s probably Team USA’s choice whether this is beneficial to them regardless of the risks and outcomes. Even if we would choose otherwise, I trust their feelings about it more than my own.


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Talking 11-08-2018, 12:42 PM

USA
Age Fargorate
Skyler 25 785
Shane 35 820
Billy Thorpe 22 763
Tyler Styer 23 730
Corey 41 779
Total 146 3877
Average 29.2 775.4


ENGLAND
Age Fargorate
Appleton 40 790
Karl Boyes 36 781
Mark Gray 45 792
Imran Majid 46 777
Chris Meiling 39 782
Total 206 3922
Average 41.2 784.4


This sounds like a nightmare. Playing a bunch of rampaging British old folks who are on average a decade older. With higher Fargo some more. A tight bunch who knows each others underwear color inside out. How do you stop this frat pack ?

  
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11-08-2018, 01:07 PM

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Guess I'll miss out then.
Me, too. Wouldn't touch fb with ten foot cue...it took me too long to dump the damn system!


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11-08-2018, 01:19 PM

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Originally Posted by jokrswylde View Post
The US team is not a team of C players.

But the average fargo rate for the Euros is 801. For the US is 775. Certainly not a large enough gap to consider the US a C team compared to an A team.
The A/B/C "ratings" were an analogy to illustrate that they were each on different tiers, with each team being noticeably better (or worse) than the next team by an amount significant enough to mean something and matter and have very real implications.
  
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11-08-2018, 01:42 PM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
The England roster is in the first post of the thread. It's close, but I wouldn't bet on the US in this match.

SVB.......820
.
..............794....Mark Gray
..............790....Appleton
Sky........785
..............783....Melling
..............781....Boyes
Corey.....780
..............777....Majid
Billy........763
.
Styer......730
Thanks, I had missed that. This is actually reasonably close and the US has a pretty decent chance although England is still favored. With the Mosconi Cup being essentially a month away it is a much closer call as to whether they have more to gain or lose by playing this one and I am more ambivalent about it. I was under the impression that the Mosconi Cup was only a couple of weeks away based on something I had read on here (just looked it up and see it is about a month away) and that the England team would be a little more favored than they are which would have made the right decision a lot more clear cut in that case with there being more to lose than to gain IMO.
  
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11-08-2018, 02:15 PM

Alright okPP, friendly wager then. I'll take Corey "the underdog" for $50 in each of his singles matches against the UK.
Lemme know.


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11-08-2018, 02:31 PM

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Originally Posted by JolietJames View Post
Alright okPP, friendly wager then. I'll take Corey "the underdog" for $50 in each of his singles matches against the UK.
Lemme know.
If you are talking to me, you may want to go back and read again because I sure don't recall saying Corey was the underdog to all of Team England. He is pretty close to even with most of Team England, certainly within what I consider to be the margin for error on all but one, and barely outside on that one.
  
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