One Pocket Spotting Balls

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Greenthumb

Registered
You owe a ball, and your opponent makes a ball in your pocket. When does that ball get spotted?

In discussions at our Center, one view is that it is spotted after your opponent's inning, i.e., before you shoot. Another view is that it isn't spotted until after you shoot and have completed your inning.

Looking at what appear to be the applicable BCA rules, 6.4 and 9.2, it seems that there is some justification for doing it either way.

6.4 If the offending player has no balls to spot, then they will owe one for each such scratch, which must be repaid by spotting at the end of the first inning or innings in which they score. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning. At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter's ongoing inning.

9.2 Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter's inning.
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
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if your opponent makes a ball in your hole and you owe a ball
it is spotted after his inning

if you make a ball and owe one it is spotted after your turn is over

i have never seen it played differently
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
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All balls should be put back in play at the conclusion of the inning that caused the need...in cases where it is isn't and the error is realized, at the end of the inning in which the error is realized.

Of course, I have seen a player claim the need to spot a ball he 'forgot' to spot at the end of his turn, claim to need to spot a ball at the end of his opponent's turn, giving himself play on an OB his opponent didn't know would be there.

I'd think there is likely a rule that prevents a forgetting player from benefitting from this sort of thing.
 
Z

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
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Black-Balled said:
All balls should be put back in play at the conclusion of the inning that caused the need...in cases where it is isn't and the error is realized, at the end of the inning in which the error is realized.

Of course, I have seen a player claim the need to spot a ball he 'forgot' to spot at the end of his turn, claim to need to spot a ball at the end of his opponent's turn, giving himself play on an OB his opponent didn't know would be there.

I'd think there is likely a rule that prevents a forgetting player from benefitting from this sort of thing.
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Down here we play that if you forget to spot a ball once it’s noticed each player plays an inning and then it’s spotted. Keeps the finger pointing to the minimum.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Z-Nole said:
Down here we play that if you forget to spot a ball once it’s noticed each player plays an inning and then it’s spotted. Keeps the finger pointing to the minimum.
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Unless both players agree to spot it early. Here is the rule from onepocket.org, which is the authority on one pocket rules:

9.4 If any owed balls, or balls that have fallen into a neutral pocket are forgotten and later remembered, then instead of being spotted after the current shooter’s inning, they are spotted after the end of the next player’s inning, unless there are no balls left on the table, in which case they are all spotted immediately. In any case, any owed balls are not forgiven, but still must be paid.

In practice, forgotten balls may be spotted at any time after they are remembered, as long as both players agree on the timing; if either player objects to an earlier spotting, then rule 9.4 should be followed.​
This allows both players to react to the ball. I have heard "two complete turns". Usually you discover the problem between turns in which case it will be two complete turns. If you discover it in the middle of a player's turn, it will be like a turn and a half before the ball spots.
 
G

Greenthumb

Registered
Bob Jewett said:
Unless both players agree to spot it early. Here is the rule from onepocket.org, which is the authority on one pocket rules:

9.4 If any owed balls, or balls that have fallen into a neutral pocket are forgotten and later remembered, then instead of being spotted after the current shooter’s inning, they are spotted after the end of the next player’s inning, unless there are no balls left on the table, in which case they are all spotted immediately. In any case, any owed balls are not forgiven, but still must be paid.

In practice, forgotten balls may be spotted at any time after they are remembered, as long as both players agree on the timing; if either player objects to an earlier spotting, then rule 9.4 should be followed.​
This allows both players to react to the ball. I have heard "two complete turns". Usually you discover the problem between turns in which case it will be two complete turns. If you discover it in the middle of a player's turn, it will be like a turn and a half before the ball spots.
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Thanks to all for your responses. In our situation we are not dealing with a forgotten ball. Our situation is: You owe a ball, and your opponent makes a ball in your pocket. When does that ball get spotted? Or stated another way, When is the soonest that ball can be spotted? Some look at the rules, noting BCA 9.2 and say the ball is spotted at the end of the shooter's (opponent's) inning. But this rule refers to any balls owed by the shooter. In this case the shooter doesn't owe any balls. Others look at the rules, particularly BCA 6.4, and say that any owed balls must be repaid by spotting at the end of the first inning in which they score. Did they score when their opponent made a ball in their pocket? Should the ball be spotted at the end of the opponent's inning. Some say yes, some say no. One problem I see with spotting the ball after the opponent's inning is that it may give you, the other player, an easy shot to make the ball immediately back into your pocket, erasing your penalty for the ball you owed, and giving you the opportunity to run more balls.
 
cue fix

cue fix

Will "MONSOON" & SEARING!
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Greenthumb said:
Thanks to all for your responses. In our situation we are not dealing with a forgotten ball. Our situation is: You owe a ball, and your opponent makes a ball in your pocket. When does that ball get spotted? Or stated another way, When is the soonest that ball can be spotted? Some look at the rules, noting BCA 9.2 and say the ball is spotted at the end of the shooter's (opponent's) inning. But this rule refers to any balls owed by the shooter. In this case the shooter doesn't owe any balls. Others look at the rules, particularly BCA 6.4, and say that any owed balls must be repaid by spotting at the end of the first inning in which they score. Did they score when their opponent made a ball in their pocket? Should the ball be spotted at the end of the opponent's inning. Some say yes, some say no. One problem I see with spotting the ball after the opponent's inning is that it may give you, the other player, an easy shot to make the ball immediately back into your pocket, erasing your penalty for the ball you owed, and giving you the opportunity to run more balls.
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It is spotted as soon as your opponent's inning ends, before you start shooting
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Greenthumb said:
Thanks to all for your responses. In our situation we are not dealing with a forgotten ball. Our situation is: You owe a ball, and your opponent makes a ball in your pocket. When does that ball get spotted? ...
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Balls are nearly always spotted at the end of an inning.

The only exception is when the table is cleared but the shooter has not won yet. For example, he may have started needing 10 balls due to fouls and his opponent already has seven. Then suppose he clears the eight balls on the table including making one ball in a side pocket. He now has a net of five. Three balls are spotted from the eight he made -- two for what he owed and one for the extraneous ball. He then continues his turn by shooting at the three spotted balls.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Greenthumb said:
... One problem I see with spotting the ball after the opponent's inning is that it may give you, the other player, an easy shot to make the ball immediately back into your pocket, erasing your penalty for the ball you owed, and giving you the opportunity to run more balls.
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The rule is the balls spots at the end of the opponent's turn. He must plan for that eventuality and will likely try to leave the cue ball where you have no shot on that spotted ball.

But a clever opponent can also use that spotted ball to his advantage. For example, he might do a slow-roll bank to leave a ball in front of his pocket and leave the cue ball near the opposite side pocket. Then the ball spots up and you are blocked by it from taking the ball out of his pocket.
 
G

Greenthumb

Registered
Bob Jewett said:
The rule is the balls spots at the end of the opponent's turn. He must plan for that eventuality and will likely try to leave the cue ball where you have no shot on that spotted ball.

But a clever opponent can also use that spotted ball to his advantage. For example, he might do a slow-roll bank to leave a ball in front of his pocket and leave the cue ball near the opposite side pocket. Then the ball spots up and you are blocked by it from taking the ball out of his pocket.
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I appreciate everyone's response and find this situation interesting because, for me, it's hard to decide what the ruling should be according to the BCA rules. I thing the BCA and OnePocket.org rules are essentially the same with respect to this situation. The specific situation deals with an unintended pocketing of a ball by an opponent in my pocket. And I owed a ball at the time.. Notwithstanding your thoughtful responses, it's not clear to me what rule governs when that ball gets spotted. I've studied BCA rules 6.4 and 9.2 carefully, and conclude that there is some logic in those rules to spot the ball after the opponent's inning, or after my inning. I favor the latter because it denies me the possible opportunity to benefit disproportionately from a mistake by my opponent. He could leave me an easy shot on the spotted ball, along with the opportunity to run more balls. Spotting that owed ball after my inning seems more fair, and perhaps in line with the intent of BCA 9.2 which concludes with this statement. "At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter's ongoing inning." While spotting the owed ball made in my pocket by my opponent at the end of his inning is not exactly during my inning, it may as well be, because I have the opportunity to shoot at the spotted ball. Denying this opportunity to a shooter may be the basis and overall intent of BCA 9.2.
 
Z

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
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Greenthumb said:
I appreciate everyone's response and find this situation interesting because, for me, it's hard to decide what the ruling should be according to the BCA rules. I thing the BCA and OnePocket.org rules are essentially the same with respect to this situation. The specific situation deals with an unintended pocketing of a ball by an opponent in my pocket. And I owed a ball at the time.. Notwithstanding your thoughtful responses, it's not clear to me what rule governs when that ball gets spotted. I've studied BCA rules 6.4 and 9.2 carefully, and conclude that there is some logic in those rules to spot the ball after the opponent's inning, or after my inning. I favor the latter because it denies me the possible opportunity to benefit disproportionately from a mistake by my opponent. He could leave me an easy shot on the spotted ball, along with the opportunity to run more balls. Spotting that owed ball after my inning seems more fair, and perhaps in line with the intent of BCA 9.2 which concludes with this statement. "At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter's ongoing inning." While spotting the owed ball made in my pocket by my opponent at the end of his inning is not exactly during my inning, it may as well be, because I have the opportunity to shoot at the spotted ball. Denying this opportunity to a shooter may be the basis and overall intent of BCA 9.2.
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You're over thinking it. Very typical of a one pocket player. Always spot at the end of the inning. Easy peezey
 
Tennesseejoe

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Generally the Onepocket.org rules are accepted as official, HOWEVER, many tournaments make exceptions ( such as the Derby City Classic ), and house rules very everywhere. I suggest you go with Onepocket.org rules to establish a good base set.
 
JazzyJeff87

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
To me there’s not really any question, though I can’t site which rules make it so ;). Any time a ball is made that’s going to be spotted, for whatever reason, it gets spotted at the end of the inning in which it was made. One pocket is all about control and planning, so you have to keep all the variables in mind.

This is all straight from a several month one pocket veteran lol.
 
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