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09-08-2019, 10:10 AM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
That’s what we found out in Toronto in the 80s at a snooker tournament.
....and inordinate amount of skids (in snooker they’re called kicks) were happening...
...when the ref changed from nylon to cotton gloves...they stopped happening

Multiple factors could be possible:

Maybe the static in the gloves left an inordinate amount of dust on the balls

Maybe the balls being smaller are more effected by static than large pool balls

Maybe the nappy snooker cloth is more influential on kicks than slicker pool cloth, regarding static


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09-08-2019, 10:30 AM

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Originally Posted by RichSchultz View Post
Ok, think this through with me.

When, in a pro tourney, a player needs to hit a shot with more grab on the felt for some reason, would it help if they ask a ref to clean the cue ball?

Think about static electricity...seems the rubbing would generate some static against the cloth?

Does this make sense?
In general a clean ball will slide more on the cloth than a dirty one.

As for the static idea, as shown on the resource video, static electricity itself does not cause skid. I think that a charged ball could tend to pick up more chalk from the table which could result in more bad contacts, but that's going to be pretty hard to demonstrate and it will require dirty cloth. You would have to be desperate to try to get unusual action that way in a game.


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09-08-2019, 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ideologist View Post
Multiple factors could be possible:



Maybe the static in the gloves left an inordinate amount of dust on the balls



Maybe the balls being smaller are more effected by static than large pool balls



Maybe the nappy snooker cloth is more influential on kicks than slicker pool cloth, regarding static
Maybe...

Most of what you say is not outlandish but in general are about the possible resulting dirtiness and not the static itself.

The lighter balls thing...well OK but they aren't dramatically lighter and the baseline for a pool ball appears to be basically none. Not sure what approx. 1.25 x "basically none" is.

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Last edited by logical; 09-08-2019 at 11:28 AM.
  
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09-08-2019, 11:49 AM

It’s 1.28..
  
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09-08-2019, 11:53 AM

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Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 View Post
It’s 1.28..
2" or 2.07" ?

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There is static and then there is static
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There is static and then there is static - 09-08-2019, 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
I’m still not convinced that static is not a reason for some skids.
...I saved some info on my computer which I will post later in the day.

One day you, Bob, and the Doc will be saying...”We should have listened to that red neck
high school drop-out.....

Static electricity that is barely detectable might be one thing, stronger static electricity another. Static electricity can and does kill people. Sliding feet, even accidentally across some carpet used to deliver quite a jolt. I'd have to think that much static could be significant but it also seems like it would be discharged before the shot. Perhaps static can build from bridge hands rubbing on felt? I don't know. Maybe from shirt material rubbing is a more likely culprit.

Traveling high desert areas things would build up enough static that you learned to discharge it before reaching for a chrome door handle on a vehicle. There are very few things I declare impossible anymore. Something only has to happen once to prove it can happen, proving something can't happen is almost impossible.

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09-08-2019, 01:29 PM

Always pays to look outside pool for answers and no better place than snooker where there is more money in the game and they can afford testing.

Strachan Cloth actually paid some experts to determine if static had anything to do with kicks.... Turns out it did... The balls building up static would cause them to pick chalk particles up from the tablebed and increase the chances of a skid occuring without the infamous chalk mark being in contact.. The studies led them to actually treat their cloth with a static guard. They actually rolled out the new cloth in 2017...

I found out about the research and had a long discusion with them about skids in 2016 when I was considering trying to match a Great White green to their tournament snooker coth.

I had always thought humidity and temperature had a major roll in kicks based upon the tournaments where we saw a huge number of them but it was the static and not the humidity/temp that caused the balls to pick up chalk on their travels around the table...

After testing they claimed a reduction in skids by 80% by adding the Anti-Kick technology to the cloth.. http://www.wsptextiles.com/blog/2017/02/


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09-08-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Renfro View Post
Always pays to look outside pool for answers and no better place than snooker where there is more money in the game and they can afford testing.

Strachan Cloth actually paid some experts to determine if static had anything to do with kicks.... Turns out it did... The balls building up static would cause them to pick chalk particles up from the tablebed and increase the chances of a skid occuring without the infamous chalk mark being in contact.. The studies led them to actually treat their cloth with a static guard. They actually rolled out the new cloth in 2017...

I found out about the research and had a long discusion with them about skids in 2016 when I was considering trying to match a Great White green to their tournament snooker coth.

I had always thought humidity and temperature had a major roll in kicks based upon the tournaments where we saw a huge number of them but it was the static and not the humidity/temp that caused the balls to pick up chalk on their travels around the table...

After testing they claimed a reduction in skids by 80% by adding the Anti-Kick technology to the cloth.. http://www.wsptextiles.com/blog/2017/02/
SE was not directly responsible. SE may have caused more chalk cling and that is what causes skid/kicks.
  
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09-08-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Renfro View Post
After testing they claimed a reduction in skids by 80% by adding the Anti-Kick technology to the cloth.. http://www.wsptextiles.com/blog/2017/02/
It would be interesting to see these tests and test results. I am honestly a little skeptical of "scientific studies" mentioned in marketing materials.

Regards,
Dave
  
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09-08-2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
SE was not directly responsible. SE may have caused more chalk cling and that is what causes skid/kicks.
Thank you for paraphrasing what I typed... Yes the chalk caused the skids, the SE only made the balls pickup the chalk...


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09-08-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Renfro View Post
Thank you for paraphrasing what I typed... Yes the chalk caused the skids, the SE only made the balls pickup the chalk...
In pool its still WAY more likely that dirt/oil will cause chalk pick-up since we don't have the dude with the white gloves on,at least not very often. Another thing i'll never lose sleep over.
  
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09-08-2019, 02:00 PM

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Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
It would be interesting to see these tests and test results. I am honestly a little skeptical of "scientific studies" mentioned in marketing materials.

Regards,
Dave
I am always skeptical as you know from many of our back and forths on topics we do not agree on... I will try and find my contact to see if they published or would be willing to publish the tests.

As the flagship snooker cloth steeped in tradition I tend to trust their claims quite a bit more over new products that are trying to gain market share with baseless claims, made up "scientific" terms and false countries of origin.. They would have much more to lose over false claims than the other "new companies"........


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09-08-2019, 02:10 PM

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Originally Posted by The Renfro View Post
I am always skeptical as you know from many of our back and forths on topics we do not agree on... I will try and find my contact to see if they published or would be willing to publish the tests.
... or at least have them describe what they did and how they did it so the results can be tested by others. Under typical conditions, cling/skid/kick does not happen very often, so did they do something to help it happen more frequently (e.g., did they really load up the surface of the cloth with chalk dust)? Is it possible the chemical treatment on the cloth is making its way onto the balls? That could definitely reduce the amount of throw on all shots (including shots with cling/skid/kick), as demonstrated in the video on my ball cleaning/surface-treatment resource page.

Thanks,
Dave

Last edited by dr_dave; 09-08-2019 at 02:15 PM.
  
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09-08-2019, 02:19 PM

I've noticed that Centennial blue circle cue balls collect more chalk "smudges" than other popular brands, but haven't noticed any more kicks with them.

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09-08-2019, 02:48 PM

I like the way gloves look on Michaela Tabb.
(Not scientific but, I contribute anyway I can.)
  
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