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mikemosconi
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10-07-2019, 02:34 PM

I do think that some folks here are missing a very important point concerning continuous high runs in 14.1- I really think it is way more important to understand the mindset and shot selections throughout the ENTIRE rack that GETS you to those last 3 balls that form the pattern for a correct angle on the break ball- ball #15 in each rack. Once that last 3 ball pattern is left on the table, it is not hard to figure out how to run those 3 AND THEN BE CORRECT ON THE BREAK BALL. IT IS LEAVING THAT PATTERN TILL THE END THAT REQUIRES KNOWLEDGE AND EXECUTION THRU THE FIRST 11 BALLS IN EACH RACK THAT IS VERY CHALLENGING. IDENTIFYING what 3 balls to leave on the table and how to go about getting to that final pattern is far more important than worrying about HOW to run that final 3 ball pattern- that aspect should be fairly natural.

If someone wants a good book that explains all of this - try Johnny Holiday's "Continuous High Runs" 1984 ` - a bit corny at points- but he has the concepts down and that is where you need to start- with the concepts of going through each rack in a repeatable fashion. Quote from Ray Martin " Straight Pool isn't what everybody thinks it is- it's not just shooting all the balls off the table and figuring out towards the end of each rack how to get to the break ball" - " Every move from the first ball in each rack should have a purpose- you adjust as you go along if the plan changes for any reason at any time during the run" - "but you must have a plan through each rack"

Watching vids of just the last 3 balls as a training tool for 14.1 does not make much sense to me- because every rack you encounter will have a different 3 ball pattern to get to the break ball, and a different way to leave that last 3 ball pattern prior to the break shot - maybe just seeing the pattern helps some people, if so, fine- can't argue with that if you believe it as a need.

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sparkle84
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10-07-2019, 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by K2Kraze View Post
Reading through this “break shot pros and cons” thread gave me an idea
that just may be worth taking the time to put together....

Witnessing successful break shots is what all of us 14.1 players love to see - and strive for in our play every day. But let’s face it....they aren’t SEEN that often. Too few and far between as well.

Sure - we know the typical top 5 shots. We can diagram and draw them all day long. We study and read about them. We even practice the same 3-5 break shots. But it’s not enough. It’s never enough

The solution: take a few of the amazing high runs that have been recorded the past few years alone and simply put a “highlights reel” together of each one - with every break shot in sequence from the first one to the last of each run. Start each highlight reel with the shot leading up to the key ball and end with the first successful shot AFTER the break shot. Repeat.

Then use each recording as a training tool for what is undoubtedly the most challenging aspect of the 14.1 game - getting from one break shot to the next. Seeing 10 or 20 or more all from the same player within the same high run could do wonders for each of us.

It’s not the last 5 balls - it’s the last 2 - and the 1 that comes immediately after.

IMHO

Dare I ask: Thoughts, anyone?

~ K.

The reason good players run balls doesn't have a lot to do with how they shoot the last couple balls. In most cases you also could execute those situations and have a good breakshot.
One of the big problems is that many times those last couple balls are no longer on the table because you shot them in earlier. With good 14.1 it's often not which balls you shoot but which ones you don't shoot.
If you start to examine this you'll find that it's often a matter of a players comfort zone and their unwillingness to step slightly outside it when necessary.
I'm sure (ask yourself) there are many times when someone thinks " Oh, I should probably shoot this shot but then turns around and does something else because they think it's easier or are afraid they might screw up position. Repeat after me--Stop doing that. Good players take the shot that's most productive, period.
I've been playing and watching straight pool for 50+ years and what I see over and over is players taking the easier shot and paying for it later.
I'm not talking about shooting a shot that's an 8 on a 1-10 degree of difficulty scale. I'm suggesting shooting a 5 instead of a 2. Or when shooting a 3 go off 2 rails between a couple balls to land with the perfect angle on a shot and deal with the last remaining problem in the rack. Good players routinely do these type of things.
So, it's not the last 5 or the last 2 balls that are important for 14.1 success. With low level players it's almost always things they do early and midrack that are their downfall.
  
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10-07-2019, 02:46 PM

Was writing my post and saw Mikes post when I posted mine. Could have saved the time--- he said it better than I did.
  
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mikemosconi
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10-07-2019, 04:49 PM

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Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
Was writing my post and saw Mikes post when I posted mine. Could have saved the time--- he said it better than I did.
Good minds think alike!!
  
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10-07-2019, 05:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
The reason good players run balls doesn't have a lot to do with how they shoot the last couple balls. In most cases you also could execute those situations and have a good breakshot.
One of the big problems is that many times those last couple balls are no longer on the table because you shot them in earlier. With good 14.1 it's often not which balls you shoot but which ones you don't shoot.
If you start to examine this you'll find that it's often a matter of a players comfort zone and their unwillingness to step slightly outside it when necessary.
I'm sure (ask yourself) there are many times when someone thinks " Oh, I should probably shoot this shot but then turns around and does something else because they think it's easier or are afraid they might screw up position. Repeat after me--Stop doing that. Good players take the shot that's most productive, period.
I've been playing and watching straight pool for 50+ years and what I see over and over is players taking the easier shot and paying for it later.
I'm not talking about shooting a shot that's an 8 on a 1-10 degree of difficulty scale. I'm suggesting shooting a 5 instead of a 2. Or when shooting a 3 go off 2 rails between a couple balls to land with the perfect angle on a shot and deal with the last remaining problem in the rack. Good players routinely do these type of things.
So, it's not the last 5 or the last 2 balls that are important for 14.1 success. With low level players it's almost always things they do early and midrack that are their downfall.
On a scale of 1 to 10, this post deserves a 10.

NYC straight pool guru and 200-ball runner Steve Lipsky puts it best --- the gist of what Steve said once to me is [think more about which balls are useful in the end pattern as you play the rack and less about exactly which will be the last couple of balls onto the break shot need to be]. Very sound advice to which all should pay attention.

With due respect to the magnificent author Phil Capelle, there is more wisdom in this single piece of advice than in the entire book "Straight Pool Patterns."
  
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10-08-2019, 08:32 PM

Regardless, I ordered the book & dvd,anyway. Too many times, I’m down to the last few balls thinking I’ve got it made, and then blow it and get bad on the break ball. When the balls are well scattered early in the rack, a good shot maker can usually find multiple viable options, but (it seems to me) the fewer balls...the fewer options (?).
  
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10-09-2019, 03:27 PM

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Originally Posted by DynoDan View Post
Regardless, I ordered the book & dvd,anyway. Too many times, I’m down to the last few balls thinking I’ve got it made, and then blow it and get bad on the break ball. When the balls are well scattered early in the rack, a good shot maker can usually find multiple viable options, but (it seems to me) the fewer balls...the fewer options (?).
A little sidenote 1st. When it arrives, just for the hell of it, go to the video 1st and before each sequence pause it and ask yourself how you would play it. I think you'll find that the majority of time your solution will be the same as theirs. If that's the case then what are you learning?
My main point, however, references the highlighted above. This is my intended point in my previous post. How you play the described rack will make you or break you. You might think you have a bunch of easy shots and tons of options but this is where the mistakes are made. Every ball is extremely valuable and you need to squeeze every ounce of value from every shot and every position play.
Many may think I'm assigning too much importance to any given shot. I'm not. People think 14.1 is easy because of the multitude of options. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, multiple options are many a players downfall because they don't attach enough importance when evaluating and choosing what to do.
Rotation players are particularly susceptible to this. I'd guess because they don't have to choose their shots and have difficultly with that aspect of it.
Anyway, just like you have to give every shot due care and attention so as not to miss it, your shot selection and position decisions must be greatly respected if you want to get that good breakshot.
Every little thing you do has to be geared towards accomplishing your goal as efficiently as possible. Efficiently: in a way that achieves maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense. Because we're fallible, the game is difficult and things go wrong. Using each ball to the utmost increases our margin of error and at times allows us enough recovery options to keep the run alive whereas we'd be history if we wasted a ball 4 or 5 shots ago.
  
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Break Shot Pros and Cons
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K2Kraze
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Break Shot Pros and Cons - 10-09-2019, 05:03 PM

Excellent points and posts from both sparkle84 and mikemosconi (even sjm had a golden nugget there)....appreciate taking time to summarize what is surely sage advice - and worthy of getting in to my “best tips” notebook.

Thanks, guys!

~ K.
  
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10-10-2019, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
A little sidenote 1st. When it arrives, just for the hell of it, go to the video 1st and before each sequence pause it and ask yourself how you would play it. I think you'll find that the majority of time your solution will be the same as theirs. If that's the case then what are you learning?
My main point, however, references the highlighted above. This is my intended point in my previous post. How you play the described rack will make you or break you. You might think you have a bunch of easy shots and tons of options but this is where the mistakes are made. Every ball is extremely valuable and you need to squeeze every ounce of value from every shot and every position play.
Many may think I'm assigning too much importance to any given shot. I'm not. People think 14.1 is easy because of the multitude of options. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, multiple options are many a players downfall because they don't attach enough importance when evaluating and choosing what to do.
Rotation players are particularly susceptible to this. I'd guess because they don't have to choose their shots and have difficultly with that aspect of it.
Anyway, just like you have to give every shot due care and attention so as not to miss it, your shot selection and position decisions must be greatly respected if you want to get that good breakshot.
Every little thing you do has to be geared towards accomplishing your goal as efficiently as possible. Efficiently: in a way that achieves maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense. Because we're fallible, the game is difficult and things go wrong. Using each ball to the utmost increases our margin of error and at times allows us enough recovery options to keep the run alive whereas we'd be history if we wasted a ball 4 or 5 shots ago.
Sounds like good advice. Now, if only I can overcome the unconscious childhood preconception of pool as mere ‘pass-time’, and remember the challenge to apply myself.
  
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