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ShortBusRuss
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06-16-2018, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
You can just back off dude. You at any point can stop putting words in my mouth and cals calling me names. You do not have to participate in the conversation if you cant act like an adult.
This is when moderation should intervene, name calling and disrespecting someone for their opinion and fabricating reasons for posting is not called for.

Take your bad attitude somewhere else.

Trent from Toledo
Was it not your view in another thread that an intentional foul is unsportsmanslike conduct, and should result in loss of game?

If so, it's an idiotic opinion, and should be called out as such.
  
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Dead Money
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06-18-2018, 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
Not here to prove a point or Argue. I just want to see how people respond to this. I am going ask a non-specific and very general question:

In playing any format of Pool: Is it cheating to intentionally break the rules?

Trent from Toledo
Yes!!!!!!!
  
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06-18-2018, 05:01 PM

It's an impossible question to answer without your definition of 'breaking the rules.' Give some examples of breaking the rules. For example: Is taking an intentional foul breaking the rules? Is any foul breaking the rules?
  
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ShortBusRuss
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06-18-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Money View Post
Yes!!!!!!!
Dead Money.. be careful.. He defines an intentional foul (such as snuggling the 2 between two balls when you can't hit the 1) as "breaking the rules.

So... I guess now intentional fouls are "cheating"?

Total barbanger talk.
  
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06-19-2018, 03:34 PM

Op states from the get go that he's not looking to argue, just curious to see how many respond - as near as I can tell (though clearly there has been some obfuscation) he didn't force anyone to read his post,much less to respond to it.

The pool format that im fairly certain sparked this debate is the pool game with 1 rule only.

You must not get caught playing it!

If anyone knows you are playing you have exposed yourself! Thereby you are identified immediately as a LOSER!

By far the most popular of all games in the aforementioned formatt.

At least in terms of how many have played it at 1 time or another.

There in lies the problem,the solution,the question,the answer and the dilemma!
  
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Dead Money
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06-19-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Dead Money.. be careful.. He defines an intentional foul (such as snuggling the 2 between two balls when you can't hit the 1) as "breaking the rules.

So... I guess now intentional fouls are "cheating"?

Total barbanger talk.
No need. I was responding to his specific post to start this thread. What ever thoughts he has outside this thread has no bearing on it.


Now with this new piece of info as to intentional fouls being cheating.....

The court of one that is Dead Money says an intentional foul may violate the "spirit" of the rules but not the actual written rules of the game. Intentional fouls are a strategic decision that could backfire on you. Perfectly legit. Done it myself. I have also regretted it a few times when an opponent pulled an amazing shot out of their ass or got lucky!
  
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Alex Kanapilly
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06-19-2018, 04:39 PM

Yes, of course.


Alex
  
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06-19-2018, 04:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kanapilly View Post
Yes, of course.
Well, now that I've read the thread ... specifically speaking, in the various games of pool, intentionally fouling and thus "breaking a rule" is accepted as strategy because it takes skill and experience to first know when to do it (IOW, knowing when the resultant penalty is worth it in order to win), and then in many cases, to execute the deliberate foul successfully. It's more akin to a push out than a rule violation that is unsportsmanlike and "cheating". But that's obvious, isn't it?


Alex
  
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06-19-2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kanapilly View Post
..."breaking a rule" is accepted as strategy because it takes skill and experience to first know when to do it (IOW, knowing when the resultant penalty is worth it in order to win), and then in many cases, to execute the deliberate foul successfully....
For a brief moment, I thought I was in an NFL forum reading a debate about the Patriots...
  
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06-19-2018, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
Not here to prove a point or Argue. I just want to see how people respond to this. I am going ask a non-specific and very general question:

In playing any format of Pool: Is it cheating to intentionally break the rules?

Trent from Toledo
It depends.


Jerry Knoxville

Also known as Cod Lock and First Lt.of the world famous Lock Society.
  
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trentfromtoledo
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06-19-2018, 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Money View Post
No need. I was responding to his specific post to start this thread. What ever thoughts he has outside this thread has no bearing on it.


Now with this new piece of info as to intentional fouls being cheating.....

The court of one that is Dead Money says an intentional foul may violate the "spirit" of the rules but not the actual written rules of the game. Intentional fouls are a strategic decision that could backfire on you. Perfectly legit. Done it myself. I have also regretted it a few times when an opponent pulled an amazing shot out of their ass or got lucky!


ShortbusRuss likes to make things up, he is basically a liar, he likes to try to put words in my mouth. I have him on ignore, but, when people quote him in their posts it shows up....

I did ask the original question and support all of my statements. I feel that when we agree to play a game we enter into a contract to not break the rules. Just because intentional fouling is "Accepted" through out many sports, it does not make it "within the rules" because the rules are being broken. My opinion is that it is Cheating. Sports evolve and add things to the rules, if they did this with intentional fouling I would have no problem with it. I was SOOO shocked to see that Phil Mickelson recently intentionally fouled in golf, a sad day for him and golf as a sport. Anyways, this has been just what I though it would be, a large number of people have no issue with intentionally fouling. I would only do it if I had absolutely no other option and would never use it as strategy. Yes, this means even if I would lose the game..... Would always rather lose with dignity rather than win with dishonor. I never said anyone else has to agree with me.

Trent from Toledo
  
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06-19-2018, 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
...I never said anyone else has to agree with me.

Trent from Toledo
You're right, you did not. Instead you called us all "cheaters".
  
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06-19-2018, 08:52 PM

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You're right, you did not. Instead you called us all "cheaters".
If the shoe fits!
  
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06-19-2018, 08:56 PM

I read this entire thread as well as the one that preceded it.

Enough, already.

First issue: following the rules is not breaking the rules.

The rules provide a series of definitions, actions, and consequences.

The rules define fouls. They give the consequences of fouls.

Not following the stated consequences of a foul would be breaking the rules.

For example, if someone double hit a cue ball, or accidentally tapped the cueball past the break line, or left themselves an easy shot on the money ball, and if in each of these situations you: declined to punish the foul, or allowed the opponent another attempt at a legal break, or declined to insist your opponent make the easy money ball for the win- you are, strictly speaking, breaking the rules.

On the other hand, if there is absolutely no way to make contact with an object ball, rather than put yourself in a position of certain loss, you May intentionally accept the consequences of a foul, and possibly still get another shot in the game. This is not breaking the rule, because you are following the definition of a foul, and accepting the stated consequences in the rule. Just as you have already been told, several times before here.

Second issue: pool does not attempt to identify or punish intent

The rules rarely, if ever, attempt to define intent, or to provide a consequence for something intentional as opposed to an event based on honest error or lack of skill. Intent is a non-issue, and you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out why people do certain things. You don't even need to know Why- you have the actions and the consequences laid out in the rules.

Even on the issue of "sportsmanship," the rules never attempt to delve into the mind of the sportsman and identify whether he is deliberately trying to shark his opponent or if he is just twitchy, loud, or naturally incontinent. Here, in the case of "intentional" fouls, the rules do not ask whether an honest attempt was made to make a legal shot. Otherwise, people would be encouraged to lie, call ridiculously impossible shots, and to argue.

Conclusion
You are putting meanings into the rules that are just not there.

Clearly it makes you feel smug, superior, and more "honorable" than 99% of the pool playing world. Instead, however, it is showing your naive misunderstanding of the strict rules and strategies in the game. It is as though you are playing chess but suddenly insisting that All pieces may only proceed forward until they reach the end of the board, and that players who move pieces in retreat are dishonorable cheaters.

By changing the rules with your added meanings, you are refusing to see the strategy and beauty that is already possible. Your arguments are also Very similar to those new bar players who insist that playing safe instead of wildly attempting to pocket an impossible ball is "chicken" or "dirty."

I gently and kindly suggest that you start a new account and abandon this one, that you learn to listen respectfully to those who have played intense and competitive pool for decades and who understand the art and the strategies of the games more deeply than you do, and that you remove your business card from this thread. I would Never play even a friendly game with someone who made up new meanings to the rules, who further believed his personal, imaginary meanings were a demonstration of someone's character, and I would Never seek the billiard related services of one who clearly did not understand the games on which he is trying to build a business.

Last edited by blah blah; 06-19-2018 at 09:44 PM. Reason: added original argumentative thread link
  
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06-19-2018, 09:34 PM

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Originally Posted by blah blah View Post
I read this entire thread as well as the one that preceded it.

Enough, already.

Clearly it makes you feel smug, superior, and more "honorable" than 99% of the pool playing world. Instead, however, it is showing your naive misunderstanding of the strict rules and strategies in the game. It is as though you are playing chess but suddenly insisting that All pieces may only proceed forward until they reach the end of the board, and that players who move pieces in retreat are dishonorable cheaters.
Ooooh, careful, now.. He might put you on ignore...

Quote:
Your arguments are also Very similar to those new bar players who insist that playing safe instead of wildly attempting to pocket an impossible ball is "chicken" or "dirty."
I.e., "barbanger".... After all, I should KNOW, as I am a "C" player...


Short Bus Russ
  
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