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Geosnooker
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09-06-2020, 06:26 PM

Never offer advice unless asked.

We hold free sessions for beginners. Best to let them know who you are and feel free to ask anything, anytime.

My wife is too polite to say anything but she hates unsolicited advice. She enjoys the social aspect of the game. She’s not a bad player but zero interest in winning or losing.
  
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Old
  (#17)
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09-06-2020, 06:45 PM

many feel someone offering advice are really saying let me show you how much better i am than you.
and most dont want your advice, they are enjoying themselves as is.
  
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The_JV
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09-07-2020, 05:39 AM

I think I have discovered the problems with the game and the younger generation.

A: Experienced players for some reason think it's bad to offer advice.
B: The notion that advice and a lesson are the same thing.
C: The egos in pool in general.

I have have no one ever have an issue when I say "Would you like some advice". In fact the response is quite the opposite.


A simple game, played by difficult people...
  
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bbb
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09-07-2020, 06:53 AM

unsolicited advice usually falls on deaf ears in my experience
your results may vary
  
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The_JV
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09-07-2020, 07:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
unsolicited advice usually falls on deaf ears in my experience
your results may vary
Yes, I completely agree... This is why I preface the conversation with "Hey..., are you interested in some advice/insight into something I noticed you doing..."...blah blah blah.

Blurting out..., "You need to do this if you hope to get any better", or "You need to stop swinging your cue like a baseball bat", probably solicits the reactions most are accustomed to in this thread.

I have never witnessed anyone who is actually interested in improving their game do anything other welcome advice. I'm really starting to think it's the approach used during the offer that's the problem here.

Based on my own experience, and I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't be the same for anyone else that plays at a higher than average level, lower end "players" tend to be intimidated by the top tier. They struggle with the idea of "cold calling" the elite into offering advice. Maybe I'm still young enough to still remember being in awe of the top players in my area, and convincing myself that they wouldn't give me the time of day if they were wearing two wrist watches. I make it a point to offer advice. Even to people I'm not playing.

Maybe a regional thing...?


A simple game, played by difficult people...
  
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  (#21)
alstl
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09-07-2020, 08:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
Unsolicited coaching is a no no.

My wife used to make men pay when they offered her advice and coaching. So funny watching bar patrons telling her how to play, uhh because they are MEN. Her come back would be, “let’s play some for $20.”

If the young men are truly looking to become the best they can be on the table they will indeed gravitate to the players they admire and respect.
When I was a kid I used an unconventional open bridge because I didn't know any better.

I've used that a few times in pool halls and I've had similar results. It's like a magnet.
  
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Geosnooker
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09-07-2020, 08:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
I think I have discovered the problems with the game and the younger generation.

A: Experienced players for some reason think it's bad to offer advice.
B: The notion that advice and a lesson are the same thing.
C: The egos in pool in general.

I have have no one ever have an issue when I say "Would you like some advice". In fact the response is quite the opposite.
C: The egos. Hint: it’s not the ego of the person not wanting advice.

We have a couple of advice givers in our leagues. You just don’t see the eyes rolling and snickering later.
  
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couldnthinkof01
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09-07-2020, 09:12 AM

I have found that you need to build a rapport
with people first. Play some, friendly conversation....
let some time pass.

You need to get to know the person a
little to see if they will be receptive or not.

If they are, suggest one small thing
at a time.
If you help them with their stance one
day, watch the next month and see if
they are working on it.

If they do, you might suggest a new piece
of info.

This way they don't get overwhelmed.
They see the benefits of your advice.

You can only help those willing to
WORK.
  
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  (#24)
MitchAlsup
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09-07-2020, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geosnooker View Post
Never offer advice unless asked.
I "watch for a while" and if they need help, I offer to offer advice.
They can accept or decline.
  
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straightline
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09-07-2020, 09:34 AM

I offer truth. The takers will improve if they can handle learning. The leavers are losers.

I can see if you are the proprietor of a room; treading lightly would be best. Still it wouldn't hurt to hustle the bright ones into improving.
  
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09-07-2020, 09:42 AM

I used to practice during the day at my local tavern. It was usually so slow that the bar maid would play me to pass the time.(free table) I taught her 9 ball since that was the game she had the best chance to win a game. That worked and she started liking the game and on occasion made some good shots. I made it clear that I was never going to let her win, that way when she did win she knew she had done well.(earned it)
After a few weeks she asked, “why have you never given me a lesson?” To which I replied, “because you never asked.” So I gave her lesson 1 just to get her stance better. Explaining that I didn’t want to overload her and after a week of practice with the proper stance we would go to lesson 2. She wasn’t really that interested and there wasn’t a lesson 2. Oh well
  
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09-07-2020, 10:03 AM

It all depends. How old is person needing advice? How bad is problem? Who else is present? If I had not been educated in the school of pool (unscheduled, unsolicited advice in a pool hall) I may have quit playing. The world I came up in was filled with knowledgable players who, in nonjudgemental manners, regularly instructed new players. When someone told me to "keep that stick more level with the table ", I also heard "you have part of it . . . you are worth instructing . . . keep at it and you will belong here".

You also need to consider age, because we come at this issue from different angles -- I played pool for 35 years before I ever saw a pool video clip. I still remember watching a group of young players boiling excitedly into the pool hall to try out a new shot they had just watched at home (now on their phone) and me asking a buddy, "what are they doing/talking about". I am still amazed at how much information is available now.

The future of our game depends upon recruiting players. If we do not make newcomers feel like they belong, they may not come back. Helping someone improve their skills is a perfect way to advance our sport on so many levels.


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Last edited by Biloxi Boy; 09-09-2020 at 07:09 AM.
  
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09-07-2020, 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
Offer classes.
I hate to be picky, but I prefer just to work 1-on1 with players that have at least some level of natural talent, a true passion for the game and willing to put in the work necessary to improve.

The players I’m talking about in particular are players that I do know and they know me, and I’m quite sure they respect my knowledge and ability for the game. Some players just have no clue what they need to change in order to improve, when it is crystal clear obvious to me when observing them.

This one player in particular has three or four major things they need to change, but I’m only bringing up one issue at a time, which I see as the most critical one, so as not overwhelm him. Once I see him making an improvement on this flaw, I’ll address the next issue. If I don’t see the effort to change my initial suggestion, I will likely take it as a hint to not bother him any further.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 09-07-2020 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Add
  
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09-07-2020, 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I hate to be picky, but I prefer just to work 1-on1 with players that have at least some level of natural talent, a true passion for the game and willing to put in the work necessary to improve.
Pick away, your thread. If you play these guys regularly then some kind of rapport should be developing from which you can figure the small steps.
  
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09-07-2020, 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geosnooker View Post
C: The egos. Hint: it’s not the ego of the person not wanting advice.

We have a couple of advice givers in our leagues. You just don’t see the eyes rolling and snickering later.
Far enough... So are you assuming (hopefully in some and not all cases) the person going out of their way to kindly offer advice is unjustifiably full of themselves..?.., and can't possibly offer anything of value.

Ego is a two way street.

Before I found myself posting on this forum. I rarely had the opportunity to cite the "Dunning-Kruger effect". I find that here on AZ, it applies to almost every thread on some level.

Sad world we live in if those just looking to help, are painted with such a negative brush.

Myself.., I'll keep offering advice. Those who choose to believe that their abilities are beyond reproach can roll their eyes and snicker all they want.


A simple game, played by difficult people...
  
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