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Black-Balled
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09-08-2020, 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
That's it. I like these maxed out shots because they usually only do what they do.
I am also a proponent of max spin. Gotta know the edge and it is often very useful to confidently call upon.


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Old
  (#32)
Bob Jewett
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09-08-2020, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
That's it. I like these maxed out shots because they usually only do what they do.
Yes. At carom billiards there are "maximum english" systems in which the angles don't change as long as you have at least a certain (large) amount of side spin.


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Old
  (#33)
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09-08-2020, 09:21 AM

Every table and player skill level is different of course so I think all opinions are subjective.

I do know that I hit this shot about a dozen times as setup by iusedtoberich and only once was I able to go topside of the 9 with success. Bottom side of 9 was successful in each of my 4 attempts. The CB spin is non-existent with the correct amount of pace by the time it hits the bottom rail. ...again, this is cloth dependent.

It looks like the 7 comes into play, but I'm willing to bet that those even trying to park the CB behind it purposely will fail 8/10 times.

We should note that Bob's simulation is very different than the screen shot in the first post. Glancing off the 1 in the simulation opens up the top side shape quite a bit


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Last edited by The_JV; 09-08-2020 at 09:24 AM.
  
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  (#34)
iusedtoberich
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09-08-2020, 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
Every table and player skill level is different of course so I think all opinions are subjective.

I do know that I hit this shot about a dozen times as setup by iusedtoberich and only once was I able to go topside of the 9 with success. Bottom side of 9 was successful in each of my 4 attempts. The CB spin is non-existent with the correct amount of pace by the time it hits the bottom rail. ...again, this is cloth dependent.

It looks like the 7 comes into play, but I'm willing to bet that those even trying to park the CB behind it purposely will fail 8/10 times.

We should note that Bob's simulation is very different than the screen shot in the first post. Glancing off the 1 in the simulation opens up the top side shape quite a bit
I had the same results with the CB spin dying by the time it hits the second rail, and I also tried it multiple times. My cloth is 8 yr old 860. Balls are Super Aramith 10 years old but polished.

I'll try the new suggestions and video them in the next couple of days.
  
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  (#35)
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09-08-2020, 09:51 AM

I'll try it 10x and give my subsequent plan too.

I still think I am going betw 7/2. We shall see...


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Old
  (#36)
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09-08-2020, 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I had the same results with the CB spin dying by the time it hits the second rail
I finally tried it a few times on my middle-aged Simonis 860 (a little sticky).

Holding the spin all the way to the other end rail was tough - I could only get the CB to rebound directly toward the 8 & 2.

I'll try it later on more slippery cloth.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 09-08-2020 at 10:26 AM.
  
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  (#37)
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09-08-2020, 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I finally tried it a few times on my middle-aged Simonis 860 (a little sticky).

Holding the spin all the way to the other end rail was tough - I could only get the CB to rebound directly toward the 2 (not between the 7 & 2), and had to hit it hard enough to go almost the whole distance to the 2 (couldn't stop short enough for an easy cut angle).

I'll try it later on more slippery cloth.

pj
chgo
Exactly what I was experiencing...


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Old
  (#38)
ChrisinNC
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09-08-2020, 12:17 PM

Coming off the side rail, then between the 8 and 9 and off the end rail, then hopefully ending up near the long rail behind the 2 for a shot. The 7 provides scratch protection, just by chance the CB is headed towards that pocket, although I guess you could possibly hook yourself behind the 7.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 09-08-2020 at 03:58 PM.
  
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  (#39)
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09-08-2020, 03:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Do you think there’s more or less margin for error going above the 9 vs. below it?

pj
chgo


Much more as Bob diagrammed it. If you take a straight edge and apply it to his diagram from the point he shows on the 1st rail and extend it towards the short rail but stay below the 9 you'll note that if you clear the 9 by a reasonable amount it brings you close to the 7 on the way to the 3rd rail.
The window you have (directionwise off the 1st rail) to miss both the 9 and 7 is rather small. It's going to be extremely sensitive to both speed and english off that 1st rail. (Not to mention very precise cut angle) JV says he had the most success going that way but IMO he'd be in the minority.
As Bob diagrammed it your MOE as far as direction to the 2nd rail goes is fairly large. However you must really spin the CB for proper results.
Bob also suggested adjusting the angle to the 1st rail with follow/draw. I don't agree with that. Having BIH I'd adjust via the cut angle and use middle left so as to more easily generate the spin needed off the top rail.
3Cushion players would know immediately how to hit this shot. They use it when the 2nd ball is close to the 3rd rail to turn it into a big ball instead of a small ball. This shot is almost always hit with a center to low ball.
Well, JMO

As far as getting to the 3 ball I don't see much problem unless you land dead straight on the 2 ball. Anywhere from an inch to 3 or 4 inches off the rail is doable.

Last edited by sparkle84; 09-08-2020 at 03:29 PM. Reason: addition
  
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  (#40)
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09-08-2020, 04:05 PM

I just tried setting up the cue ball about 1/2 ball from the spot, towards the pocket the

one ball is in and going top left to come down. Still not an easy shot, either way. But had

more success coming at it thisway than going 3 rails for it. Doubling out of the corner

with top can cause problems, especially if you are 'not trying' to overspin it. Took 10

shots this way, got there 4 times.I wasn't able to get there any out of ten drawing it out

of the pocket. That 8 ball got me twice.
  
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  (#41)
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09-08-2020, 04:11 PM

Forget about getting the very hard shape on the 2 and the risk of possibly even hooking yourself. Pocket the 1 and bring the CB just beyond the side pockets past the 6, but short of the 8 - a 2+ foot window. Then you’ll have an easy safety whereby, depending on the angle you’ve left, you should be able to spin the CB with outside at a soft pace, off either side of the 2, and leave the CB and 2 on opposite ends of the table, with 4-5 obstructing balls between - likely leaving no better than a kick shot for your opponent.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 09-08-2020 at 04:38 PM.
  
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  (#42)
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09-08-2020, 04:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I finally tried it a few times on my middle-aged Simonis 860 (a little sticky).

Holding the spin all the way to the other end rail was tough - I could only get the CB to rebound directly toward the 8 & 2.

I'll try it later on more slippery cloth.

pj
chgo
my results too unless i could brush very close to the 9
  
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  (#43)
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09-08-2020, 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
3 rails, land between the 8/7 on the long rail.
With ball in hand, this is the shot.
  
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  (#44)
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09-08-2020, 05:20 PM

has everyone that has suggested the topside of the 9 ball actually tried this in the physical world...?

I'm telling ya, it's the harder path. Splitting the 9 / 6 gap is very repeatable and always has resulted on a decent shot on the 2.


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09-08-2020, 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
has everyone that has suggested the topside of the 9 ball actually tried this in the physical world...?

I'm telling ya, it's the harder path. Splitting the 9 / 6 gap is very repeatable and always has resulted on a decent shot on the 2.
i tried it in the real world
and i agree 100%
  
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