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talent isnt everything !!!!!!!!!
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talent isnt everything !!!!!!!!! - 09-21-2020, 04:47 AM

https://www.drdouggreen.com/wp-conte...-Overrated.pdf
i posted this in the instructor forum (i am not an instructor)
thought it might be helpfull for those of us wondering
do i have it?
how do i get better?
  
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09-21-2020, 05:10 AM

Excellent...I will look into the book and add it to my vast library of self improvement, mental toughness books whos content seems to allude me.
  
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talent - 09-21-2020, 05:48 AM

Thank you for sharing. This article really demonstrates that talent is overrated. I couldn't agree more.

I've always said INPUT = OUTPUT. I should modify this to "Effective Input = Output". If you put in the wrong input you won't get results. If you don't put in a ton of input you won't get results.

When people talk talent, what they are really saying is "I put in a lot of input and I'm not seeing the same results as others. They must just be more gifted. It isn't fair!" The truth is that the other person you are comparing yourself to has probably 1) Put in way more input than you realize, and 2) Has put in more effective input.

I want to talk a bit about the effective piece of this. Why would people not put in effective input? Well, most people have a faulty narrative. They insist they have the knowledge and are on the right path, but the path they are on doesn't lead towards the results they want. But they are close minded. They want to prove their path is right more than they actually want to get better. I see this all the time. Then when they don't get results they aren't accountable, they blame a talent gap.

One small example: There is a guy I know who refuses to not try to crush the break. He wants every break to be 23mph with a huge cue ball pop that makes people turn their heads like in the Color of Money. The problem is he doesn't get consistent results. So we are playing on this one table that doesn't rack well, and with tight pockets the hard break wasn't working. Turns out this table responded better to a medium speed break. But when he heard this he refused to change his break and insisted this was how the pros do it. Fast forward to the competition, he was totally ineffective. In fact, at one point down 7-6 in a race to 8 he broke and jumped the table. His opponent ran out.

People continue to insist pool is all fundamentals, or pool is all talent, or whatever narrative they create in their head. These narratives are very dangerous. The truth is that pool is all IMPROVEMENT, and you have to adapt your narrative to what works in reality, because reality won't adapt to your narrative. It pays to spend time talking to top players and being open minded.

In short, do what works. Anyone that stubbornly goes down a dead end road and loses steam and stops putting in the right amount of work has to be accountable for their choice. Talent isn't a factor here.


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09-21-2020, 05:51 AM

Is anyone else as excited as I am to hear that talent is overrated?!


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09-21-2020, 06:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by david in fl View Post
is anyone else as excited as i am to hear that talent is overrated?!
....me.....
  
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09-21-2020, 07:25 AM

Talent + Work Ethic = Champion
No Talent + Work Ethic = Also Ran
Talent + No Work Ethic = Also Ran


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talent - 09-21-2020, 07:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexus31 View Post
Talent + Work Ethic = Champion
No Talent + Work Ethic = Also Ran
Talent + No Work Ethic = Also Ran
This is so destructive it triggers me for a moment. I calm myself by remembering than it's not my pool career that's being sabotaged by this belief. I am hitting my goals. If others want don't want to they are free to believe what they want.

I only reply to try to influence those starting on their journeys looking for guidance. When it comes to whether to believe in talent one road leads to success and one road doesn't. Choose wisely.


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09-21-2020, 07:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
This is so destructive it triggers me for a moment. I calm myself by remembering than it's not my pool career that's being sabotaged by this belief. I am hitting my goals. If others want don't want to they are free to believe what they want.

I only reply to try to influence those starting on their journeys looking for guidance. When it comes to whether to believe in talent one road leads to success and one road doesn't. Choose wisely.
Agree here. I've known a few players that really had little-to-no natural ability but with hard work and guts turned into monster players. Having natural ability/talent/feel is for sure helpful but in no way does it guarantee that one will be a top player.
  
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09-21-2020, 08:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
This is so destructive it triggers me for a moment. I calm myself by remembering than it's not my pool career that's being sabotaged by this belief. I am hitting my goals. If others want don't want to they are free to believe what they want.

I only reply to try to influence those starting on their journeys looking for guidance. When it comes to whether to believe in talent one road leads to success and one road doesn't. Choose wisely.
How is it destructive? It's true.

You mean to tell me Shane, Earl, Dennis and all the rest of the champions would still be champions if they didn't have the talent or the work ethic? It takes both. You can hit balls for 10 hours a day but it doesn't mean you are going to win the US Open. The same holds true for the greats in all other sports.

I'm a prime example. I pitched (baseball) through college. My hard work and love of the sport got me that far as I was never the most talented guy on the pitching staff. When the time came to advance to the next level (Pro Ball), I was overlooked because my fastball topped out at 85mph. I didn't have the talent to play Pro Ball. Transversely, guys I played with had the talent to play pro ball but did not have the work ethic to advance past A or AA. It takes both to reach the pinnacle.


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09-21-2020, 08:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Agree here. I've known a few players that really had little-to-no natural ability but with hard work and guts turned into monster players. Having natural ability/talent/feel is for sure helpful but in no way does it guarantee that one will be a top player.
I'm not saying you can't succeed but you aren't going to be world class without both talent and hard work.


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09-21-2020, 08:05 AM

The formula is 1 part inspiration to 99 parts perspiration. People confuse physical aptitude and ability for talent. Nope them is just the skills. Sports, music, whatever, the accomplished are credited with superior talent. I believe that's mostly a figment of the beholder. I'd say more but that would take astral projection. lol
  
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09-21-2020, 09:18 AM

Here is a statement in that promotional/sales document:
Three things donít appear to drive great performance. They are experience, specific inborn abilities, and general abilities such as intelligence and memory. ..
This is a rather remarkable statement.


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09-21-2020, 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
Thank you for sharing. This article really demonstrates that talent is overrated. I couldn't agree more.

I've always said INPUT = OUTPUT. I should modify this to "Effective Input = Output". If you put in the wrong input you won't get results. If you don't put in a ton of input you won't get results.

When people talk talent, what they are really saying is "I put in a lot of input and I'm not seeing the same results as others. They must just be more gifted. It isn't fair!" The truth is that the other person you are comparing yourself to has probably 1) Put in way more input than you realize, and 2) Has put in more effective input.

I want to talk a bit about the effective piece of this. Why would people not put in effective input? Well, most people have a faulty narrative. They insist they have the knowledge and are on the right path, but the path they are on doesn't lead towards the results they want. But they are close minded. They want to prove their path is right more than they actually want to get better. I see this all the time. Then when they don't get results they aren't accountable, they blame a talent gap.

One small example: There is a guy I know who refuses to not try to crush the break. He wants every break to be 23mph with a huge cue ball pop that makes people turn their heads like in the Color of Money. The problem is he doesn't get consistent results. So we are playing on this one table that doesn't rack well, and with tight pockets the hard break wasn't working. Turns out this table responded better to a medium speed break. But when he heard this he refused to change his break and insisted this was how the pros do it. Fast forward to the competition, he was totally ineffective. In fact, at one point down 7-6 in a race to 8 he broke and jumped the table. His opponent ran out.

People continue to insist pool is all fundamentals, or pool is all talent, or whatever narrative they create in their head. These narratives are very dangerous. The truth is that pool is all IMPROVEMENT, and you have to adapt your narrative to what works in reality, because reality won't adapt to your narrative. It pays to spend time talking to top players and being open minded.

In short, do what works. Anyone that stubbornly goes down a dead end road and loses steam and stops putting in the right amount of work has to be accountable for their choice. Talent isn't a factor here.
TinMan, you hit the nail on the head here! I feel a lot of Self Taught players don't know how or what to practice, they watch a video, read some material go to the table slap some balls around and call it practice. Garbage in is Garbage out!


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09-21-2020, 11:01 AM

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard
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09-21-2020, 11:38 AM

Something I found very true:

"Deliberate practice requires focus and concentration, which
makes it mentally taxing and not likely to be a lot of fun."

Since I got into pool strictly for the fun, and knowing well that at age 76 I'll never be a very good player, why risk making myself remove the fun?

Not slamming those who do treat the game as more than recreation..more power to you.

I find myself happy with baby step improvements...things like working on rudimentary shape while using only center ball, etc. I do NOT want to remove the fun factor from the game. If I do, I'd just quit and look for fun elsewhere. It's a big world out there..just brimming over with fun things to do.
  
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