Thanks for this Gary. I never met Hal but several close friends of mine have and they couldn't stop talking about him and his wife and what great people they were.
The Hal Houle Post
- Thread starter Dan White
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Thanks for this Gary. I never met Hal but several close friends of mine have and they couldn't stop talking about him and his wife and what great people they were.
It certainly is an easy enough premise to live with. Btw, I reside in PA not all that far from where Hal had his home. I also had the opportunity to go to his house a few times to get his watchful eye and instructions on the table before he started going downhill with his health. What a great mind for pool and true gentleman.
I've also gone to Kentucky to train with Stan for a number of days on his tables.
Do you think I might, just might, have some insight and knowledge about the system to get it to work as described by Hal and Stan?
Or like you who had success with what Hal taught you, could it be that we're both brain washed into thinking we got more balls to go in and up our game when we were really getting worse and confused?
Funny how the same thing is happening with pro players and top amateurs in the country now. They use it to up their game and some are now getting certified to teach it.
Please stick around. Hopefully you won't start getting treated negatively by those you know and some you don't know as of now.
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CTE Pro1 isn't some fringe aiming system used by hack pool players on a pool forum or taught by a group of whacky instructors living in La-La land. It's growing every day with more pros getting involved and top amateurs. Below is a list of pros and amateurs who have won and finished in the top 10 of the US AMATEUR CHAMPIONSHIP. They continue to use it and some are getting certified as instructors.
Tyler Styer
Stevie Moore
Hunter Lombardo
Brandon Shuff
Matt Krah
Phil Buford
Gerry Williams
Duke Laha
US AMATEUR PLAYERS: (winners and top 10)
Brian Parks
Robert Frost
James Roberts
Dave Stem
Tyler Styer
Stevie Moore
Hunter Lombardo
Brandon Shuff
Matt Krah
Phil Buford
Gerry Williams
Duke Laha
US AMATEUR PLAYERS: (winners and top 10)
Brian Parks
Robert Frost
James Roberts
Dave Stem
So, Hal was a nice guy......big deal. The world is full of nice guys. Oh btw........many years ago, I got a nasty pm from Hal telling me how stupid the Arrow was. You know something real that can be use to train with that was design by Babe Cranfield.
Just because someone is nice doesn’t mean their system is any good.
And just because someone is nice to you, doesn’t mean they are nice to all.
Just because someone is nice doesn’t mean their system is any good.
And just because someone is nice to you, doesn’t mean they are nice to all.
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Um, lining up the contacts then shooting the actual shot. Over and over... No offsets, sweeps, stereotyping different angles...
You simply determine where the stick goes and stroke it at the required speed.
I think the list below is going to be my rubber stamp to show there are those who think differently than you do regarding how good the system is. Or are they just stupid also?
Tyler Styer (2 time Mosconi Cup)
Stevie Moore
Hunter Lombardo
Brandon Shuff
Matt Krah
Phil Buford
Gerry Williams https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=321301 (Check his videos and scores for the Billiard University Exam by Dr. Dave)
Duke Laha
Stan Shuffett
US AMATEUR PLAYERS: (winners and top 10)
Brian Parks (He is a three time APA 9-ball singles champion, five time U.S. Amateur Champion (only person ever to win five)
Robert Frost
James Roberts
Dave Stem (one of the favorite posters and top amateur on this forum)
Landon Shuffett
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Just to keep it real..... With the possible exceptions of Tyler Styer and Brian Parks, all of these players were already champions or top 10 finishers prior to learning or dabbling with CTE, and no drastic improvements in top 10 finishes have come as result of using the system.
That's not a knock to the system. It's just reality. Sort of like providing a list of champion caliber players that have converted to a revo shaft. It's not the shaft that makes them great, because they were already great. The reality is, there are no definitive results proving that any these players play any better with revo shafts than they did with their non-revo shafts. And that's not knocking revo shafts. It's a good product. To each their own.
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I knew there was going to be a knock regarding their past history and now users of CTE. It was just a matter of who was going to do it.
The fact they were champions and very good players is EXACTLY the reason why their converting 100% to CTE is so IMPRESSIVE!
Why would someone with their skills and playing record want to convert over to something that could possibly make them WORSE?
They've now WON with CTE and continue to use it. A couple of them are or becoming CTE PRO1 certified instructors to help others.
Stan Shuffett and Landon Shuffett were also excellent players. Stan won pro tournaments against the strongest field of pro players in the world of pool in 2002. Zipped through all the brackets undefeated with Earl, Varner, and the best of them playing.
If anybody doesn't know what Landon's record is as an amateur must be living in a vacuum.
The "they were great players before CTE" is really pretty lame. They could have remained great players without it but chose NOT TO.
I guess they saw something in it to switch that you or others haven't.
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It's sort of like if a pro basketball player changes from Haynes underwear to Jockey underwear. Maybe one brand feels or fits better, and because of this the player feels like he's playing better. But there's no measureable notice of improvement in his caliber of play. Still, there are thousands of hack or aspiring basketball players out there who will make the change also because they actual believe the pro player knows something they dont know about the importance of underwear.
You're brain is becoming completely addled Brian. This has to one of the worst comparisons anyone could possibly come up with.
LMAO...What does underwear have to do with how one plays in basketball?
It could be said, "why would Tiger Woods bother wanting to take lessons from anyone since he was one of the greatest amateur players in the history of golf."
He could have just kept doing what he was doing.
But he got a professional instructor right off the bat when he turned pro. And then he got three or four MORE pro instructors over the length of his career.
Why do you think he did that when the first one took him to a completely new level?
Fact is, he got even BETTER and his record showed it.
Each of those instructors had differing views about the swing and taught different techniques in their sessions with Tiger.
GARYB, I HOPE YOU'RE READING ALONG AND FOLLOWING THIS IN ORDER TO SEE FOR YOURSELF HOW THINGS GET ATTACKED IN HERE AND PLAY OUT.
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Tiger had pro lessons before he turned pro. Regardless, there are definitely advantages to taking lessons from different instructors. And you play great for a while, then you're off your game again and go shopping for another instructor to fix you up again. Most pros get the greatest benefit from hiring a psychological coach, not by overhauling or changing the actual fundamentals that enabled them to become pros in the first place. Tiger's best years were with Butch Harmon. After that, after the car crash and sex scandal and all, he's tried all sorts of things, abandoning his swing, struggling to get back into the top of the ranks. Maybe he should've kept with what he was doing with Butch Harmon.
As far as my underwear analogy goes... Clothing manufacturers use the "pro" advertising strategy to sell everything from hats to shoes to underwear. They know that associating their products with "professional" athletes is a great marketing strategy. It doesn't matter that pros become pros through countless hours of practice and repetition. Nike knows that little check mark logo tells wanna be players, "Hey, look at this....pro players wear Nike." Manufacturers of pool/billiards products use the same advertising tactics.
Hell, even political adds use the pro/celebrity endorsement bit, because they know most people think celebrity opinions hold more weight than non-celebrity opinions. It's sad but it's true. Many people believe professional athletes and movie stars are smarter than the average person, so whatever products they're using must surely be the best. We rush out to buy the latest gizmo or gadget, shoes or underwear, whatever...just trying to grab some of the genius or insight that these pros/celebrities have, despite the reality that none of the pro-endorsed products contributed to their professional success or stardom.
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What does any of that have to do with playing a sport and choosing instructors or different techniques from what was being used to something quite different to play the game?
Uhhhh...NOTHING!
It's a complete red herring and immaterial.
Here is something we can look into and discuss. One of your previous posts.
The Bible says: A Man is Only as Good as His Word Proverbs 20:6 ; Hebrews 13:8
On 01-20-2020, 11:55 AM you made this post:
(QUOTE)I believe I'm going to refrain from participating in anymore CTE related threads. That's right Cookie, no clapping neccessary. lol.
Everything that could possibly be said in favor of or in question of the system has already been addressed. Some problems/questions have been addressed, while others have been avoided or answered with questionable logic or complete denial. It's been like this for a decade or more, though I have only engaged in it for about the last 3 years. Plenty enough wasted time for me. When someone shows a shot example that proves a valid point, as far as questioning CTE perceptions and pivots, and the reply is either derogatory, illogical, or nonresponsive, then it's a waste of time to continue with any questions or comments.
I believe Stan is a good person with a lot of passion for the game, as well as for teaching. If he says his truth series and upcoming book will contain never-seen-before visual instructions, then maybe all these aiming war flames will finally burn out with that extra knowledge. (QUOTE)
Your current posts in this thread are revealing your true intentions vs. "your word". What happened?
Have you lost your way?
I'll help you out...no more posting to you by me on this subject in this thread. The system and the pros/amateurs/ speak for itself. Nothing you or anyone can do or say to stop it from growing.
The Bible says: A Man is Only as Good as His Word Proverbs 20:6 ; Hebrews 13:8
On 01-20-2020, 11:55 AM you made this post:
(QUOTE)I believe I'm going to refrain from participating in anymore CTE related threads. That's right Cookie, no clapping neccessary. lol.
Everything that could possibly be said in favor of or in question of the system has already been addressed. Some problems/questions have been addressed, while others have been avoided or answered with questionable logic or complete denial. It's been like this for a decade or more, though I have only engaged in it for about the last 3 years. Plenty enough wasted time for me. When someone shows a shot example that proves a valid point, as far as questioning CTE perceptions and pivots, and the reply is either derogatory, illogical, or nonresponsive, then it's a waste of time to continue with any questions or comments.
I believe Stan is a good person with a lot of passion for the game, as well as for teaching. If he says his truth series and upcoming book will contain never-seen-before visual instructions, then maybe all these aiming war flames will finally burn out with that extra knowledge. (QUOTE)
Your current posts in this thread are revealing your true intentions vs. "your word". What happened?
Have you lost your way?
I'll help you out...no more posting to you by me on this subject in this thread. The system and the pros/amateurs/ speak for itself. Nothing you or anyone can do or say to stop it from growing.
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Well if the Bible says it then it must be true. Lol.
I suppose this thread is "CTE related". But my recent comments were geared more toward advertising tactics, pointing out the fact that saying pros do this or that or use this or that is really meaningless when it comes to determining whether or not any product or service can benefit an average person. I was not engaging in any CTE arguments, and I would say the same things about any system or product that uses pro endorsements to give the impression that the system or product is the valid or legit, as if a pro player's opinion outweighs everything else.
My intention is to not engage in the dead end time-wasting arguments concerning the workings of CTE. I refuse to argue with Stan/Connie or you or Cookie or anyone else on that issue. It's the whole [/]beating a dead horse[/i] bit. That's what I'm no longer doing.
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I totally agree with the Butch Harmon part. That and bulking up along with the episodes outside of golf events led to his downhill spiral. Even today I would love to see him try to take 10-15 yards off of his driving.
Why does this particular topic upset you so much? You are not a user of CTE so why does it bother you that others are? They are not going to change you and you are not going to change them You all have your opinions and they are based on your experiences which is reasonable--for all involved.
I can certainly see where doing what you say is much easier then looking at the same perception on every shot,lol.
I was only a middle of the pack US Amateur finisher before CTE. Now i've finished ninth twice.
It's more like a pro basketball changing how he shoots free throws, he's taught a better technique, then about his underwear. Even one or two more free throws a game made could have drastic favorable results throughout the season
Here's a quote from Butch Harmon to Lee Trevino regarding Tiger. He couldn't teach him anything more.
Lee Trevino speaking:
"Tiger outsmarted himself. He didn’t realize that if he just maintained, he would still be winning everything. Instead, he wanted to do something else. He got bored. He wasn’t satisfied winning by 15. He wasn’t satisfied by winning 30 percent of his tournaments. It was too easy for him. He was actually too good, and it got in his way.
Here’s what Butch Harmon told me. I said, “Tiger?” He said, “Lee, I can’t teach him anymore. He knows more than I do about the swing. You can’t believe what he knows about this thing.”
I also think pounding the weights so hard and heavy had a lot to do with his messed up back and all the surgeries over the years. Very thick contracted muscles are a detriment when speed, flexibility, and suppleness is the most important. They work against each other.
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I am familiar with the players from past years and have never respected the underlying anger that seeps into a thread that should be of a positive nature. But there are two camps that are polarized and even after expressing their disagreement they insist on repeating themselves thread after thread. I believe that you take a stance then express the reasoning and results that led to your stance and that is that. If only there was some way that a CTE thread could only be participated in by proponents of CTE trying to help one another and an Anti-CTE thread for those proposing their reasoning and arguing with each other about why they disagree with CTE and agree with ---whatever---and only the Anti-CTE could participate. As I mentioned earlier I had not read all of the posts in the Hal Houle thread because it had taken no time at all for all of the usual opponents to jump in and turn it into a thread like all of the others had deteriorated into. Never the two can mingle and mingling is something we should all strive to do. WE DO have commonalities.