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06-23-2019, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Lawnboy77 View Post
Just my take on torquing rail bolts. I'm also a mechanic (commercial aircraft) and I agree with you "fastone371". The torque wrench used for torquing rail bolts is more for the inexperienced, not for the good table mechanics. RKC, Geoff and Trent, just to name a few, don't really need a torque wrench for tightening table bolts, they do it all the time and can feel when it's right. Rail tightening is not critical torquing, like with aircraft engine mount bolts. This measurement in ft. lbs. is simply what Glenn's 35 or 40 years of experience says is a good amount of torque, and most importantly a safe amount that can be measured and applied periodically by anyone who has a decent torque wrench. Kudo's for the info Glenn! Everyone is now aware of the need to periodically retighten rail bolts, and most importantly, Trent and Geoff won't have to worry about being called out to a job because someone stripped out inserts, or even worse, snapped a slate.



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06-23-2019, 10:39 AM

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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Are you his press secretary or something? He's right fkin here.

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06-23-2019, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
No need for a press secretary, but people to like to repeatedly what they've learned, someday soon I won't be here anymore
He got it wrong though didn't he?...

So, just what would be a good torque for a GC2's rail bolts. My table has been up a year or so and I was about to check to see if they relaxed and loosened up at all although it doesn't show any signs of that.

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06-23-2019, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by logical View Post
He got it wrong though didn't he?...

So, just what would be a good torque for a GC2's rail bolts. My table has been up a year or so and I was about to check to see if they relaxed and loosened up at all although it doesn't show any signs of that.

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Two different anchors for the GCs, the figure 8 nut plates, and the inserted capture nut. Two different torques.

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06-23-2019, 11:46 AM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
Two different anchors for the GCs, the figure 8 nut plates, and the inserted capture nut. Two different torques.
I don't remember. I do remember they somehow pulled down on or near the top of the rail, not just an insert loaded from the bottom of the rail. I think they slid into a slot/pocket maybe. Is it something I could see from underneath if I take a bolt out?

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06-23-2019, 06:57 PM

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Originally Posted by logical View Post
I don't remember. I do remember they somehow pulled down on or near the top of the rail, not just an insert loaded from the bottom of the rail. I think they slid into a slot/pocket maybe. Is it something I could see from underneath if I take a bolt out?

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Depends on how well you can see up into the bolt hole.
  
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06-25-2019, 04:39 PM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
The next time any of you go have new tires installed, ask if the tire technician torques the lug nuts on the wheels!
Do table manufacturers actually list a torque value for rail bolts in the assembly instructions?? Without this figure a torque wrench does little good as far getting them adequately tight but making them evenly tight will not be a problem.

Most shops dont use torque wrenches on wheels. If they use anything they use a "torque stick" which is essentially a socket with a built on extension. The "extension" part comes in different diameters for different torque values.
I have been in auto repair (race cars too) business for over 30 years and the only thing I regularly use my $1500 worth of torque wrenches on are head bolts, intake bolts (plastic), and any engine rebuilding, other than that its just not necessary. I am not a hack and have fantastic job security in my field because I know just about any shop would hire me the same day if I left a previous job. I often get calls from other shops checking to see if I am interested in working for them, ........while I am already at work.
  
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06-25-2019, 08:48 PM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
The next time any of you go have new tires installed, ask if the tire technician torques the lug nuts on the wheels!
I had new tires installed at Sams. Yes they used a torque wrench.
  
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06-25-2019, 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
Do table manufacturers actually list a torque value for rail bolts in the assembly instructions?? Without this figure a torque wrench does little good as far getting them adequately tight but making them evenly tight will not be a problem.

Most shops dont use torque wrenches on wheels. If they use anything they use a "torque stick" which is essentially a socket with a built on extension. The "extension" part comes in different diameters for different torque values.
I have been in auto repair (race cars too) business for over 30 years and the only thing I regularly use my $1500 worth of torque wrenches on are head bolts, intake bolts (plastic), and any engine rebuilding, other than that its just not necessary. I am not a hack and have fantastic job security in my field because I know just about any shop would hire me the same day if I left a previous job. I often get calls from other shops checking to see if I am interested in working for them, ........while I am already at work.
Do lug nuts need to be torqued?

Lug nuts*must be*torqued*to the manufacturer's recommended values, and they must be re-torqued*to those values after driving approximately 50 to 100 miles on your new tires after the tire service. Both under and over tightening can be dangerous. ... To tighten*lug nuts*correctly, a torque wrench is required.Jun 19, 2018
  
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06-26-2019, 04:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
Do table manufacturers actually list a torque value for rail bolts in the assembly instructions?? Without this figure a torque wrench does little good as far getting them adequately tight but making them evenly tight will not be a problem.

Most shops dont use torque wrenches on wheels. If they use anything they use a "torque stick" which is essentially a socket with a built on extension. The "extension" part comes in different diameters for different torque values.
I have been in auto repair (race cars too) business for over 30 years and the only thing I regularly use my $1500 worth of torque wrenches on are head bolts, intake bolts (plastic), and any engine rebuilding, other than that its just not necessary. I am not a hack and have fantastic job security in my field because I know just about any shop would hire me the same day if I left a previous job. I often get calls from other shops checking to see if I am interested in working for them, ........while I am already at work.
How do brake rotors get warped?

Of the causes why*brake rotors*warp, having too much heat applied is the most common. This happens when too much friction is applied against the*brake. ... One common cause ofbrake*shudder caused by a*warped rotor*is over torqueing of the lug nuts. Lug nuts should be properly torqued using a torque wrench.Mar 29, 2017
  
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07-15-2019, 02:08 PM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
How do brake rotors get warped?

Of the causes why*brake rotors*warp, having too much heat applied is the most common. This happens when too much friction is applied against the*brake. ... One common cause ofbrake*shudder caused by a*warped rotor*is over torqueing of the lug nuts. Lug nuts should be properly torqued using a torque wrench.Mar 29, 2017
That is simply Chinese rotor manufacturers not wanting to stand behind their defective products. If the wheel torque really was causing the rotors to warp doesnt it make sense that it would also warp the bearing hub since the rotor is pinched between the wheel face and the bearing hub??? In over 35 years of doing this I have never had to replace a bearing hub due to warp. The real reason rotors warp is due to heat. Car manufacturers no longer build rotors with enough extra material to allow the rotors to be resurfaced at brake replacement time. It saves the manufacturer money and also reduces the weight of the car in 2 very important areas, unsprung and rotating weight.
  
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07-15-2019, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
That is simply Chinese rotor manufacturers not wanting to stand behind their defective products. If the wheel torque really was causing the rotors to warp doesnt it make sense that it would also warp the bearing hub since the rotor is pinched between the wheel face and the bearing hub??? In over 35 years of doing this I have never had to replace a bearing hub due to warp. The real reason rotors warp is due to heat. Car manufacturers no longer build rotors with enough extra material to allow the rotors to be resurfaced at brake replacement time. It saves the manufacturer money and also reduces the weight of the car in 2 very important areas, unsprung and rotating weight.
I've owned American cars built back in the 60's and newer, they didn't have Chinese made rotors on them, sorry, but I HAVE had warped rotors on my 84 Ford 1/2T cargo van. They were fine before I had new tires installed, and in less than a 100 miles started causing the steering wheel to shimmy when I applied the breaks, so....why the change after new tires were installed?? Replaced the rotors, steering wheel shimmy was gone!!
  
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07-16-2019, 05:26 AM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
Depends on how well you can see up into the bolt hole.
Glen - Do you set the figure 8 plates to flush, or somewhat proud of your rail?
It would seem your torque could be higher if the plate screws aren't pulled on.

Just wondering...


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07-16-2019, 10:53 AM

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Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
I've owned American cars built back in the 60's and newer, they didn't have Chinese made rotors on them, sorry, but I HAVE had warped rotors on my 84 Ford 1/2T cargo van. They were fine before I had new tires installed, and in less than a 100 miles started causing the steering wheel to shimmy when I applied the breaks, so....why the change after new tires were installed?? Replaced the rotors, steering wheel shimmy was gone!!
That would be the first time in my 35 years in the industry that I have heard of lug nut torque causing a rotor to warp. More than likely being on a Ford 1/2 ton it was likely due to the brakes being notoriously undersized on those vehicles. We had a fleet of Ford 1/2 ton vans that we serviced for a bakery that rotated thru the shop for brakes constantly due to overheating the brakes, who would think bread weighs that much??
  
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07-17-2019, 06:21 AM

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Originally Posted by Lawnboy77 View Post
Just my take on torquing rail bolts. I'm also a mechanic (commercial aircraft) and I agree with you "fastone371". The torque wrench used for torquing rail bolts is more for the inexperienced, not for the good table mechanics. RKC, Geoff and Trent, just to name a few, don't really need a torque wrench for tightening table bolts, they do it all the time and can feel when it's right. Rail tightening is not critical torquing, like with aircraft engine mount bolts. This measurement in ft. lbs. is simply what Glenn's 35 or 40 years of experience says is a good amount of torque, and most importantly a safe amount that can be measured and applied periodically by anyone who has a decent torque wrench. Kudo's for the info Glenn! Everyone is now aware of the need to periodically retighten rail bolts, and most importantly, Trent and Geoff won't have to worry about being called out to a job because someone stripped out inserts, or even worse, snapped a slate.


Rex
I can’t believe an aircraft mechanic would write such crap. Of course many components can be tightened by feel but so many need a specific torque for bolt stretch in side an engine. How about those wheel bearings? I had to buy a 2 1/2 socket so I could torque ours. Do you torque spark plugs?

I was at Stiix Billiards playing on a red label table few months back and the balls seemed to come off one rail a little funny. I said to Jerry that a rail made a little noise and seemed to play a little funky. Jerry reached under the table and felt the bolts and said “well the bolts don’t feel loose”. Those must be some finely calibrated fingers Anyways, the key is to know what bolts really need a specific torque and which ones don’t.

I believe rail bolt torque is important.
  
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