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Danny Harriman
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dazed - 01-08-2019, 02:11 PM

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Originally Posted by DynoDan View Post
I could never comprehend justification for the extent of their popularity, unless you were in the audience when they were tossing out free ‘Owlsleys’ (?).
Don't know bout owlsleys - but you CAN over complicate wit the best of em Dyno duo dan. No worries - 'keep truckin' little brother. I know not much bout the flat earth theory but I do like a level playing field, using a different rack than the one originally drawn or traced will make the white knight start talking backwards. If you cannot understand that it's imperative to use the same rack as the one originally traced then I cannot help you. I am not a pro arguer' either, just trying to help the players who are present to win in an honest format - if that even exist anymore?

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01-08-2019, 02:36 PM

[QUOTE=Danny Harriman)
...it's imperative to use the same rack as the one originally traced...[/QUOTE]

So, using your rationale, then if there is a previously drawn indelible line on the cloth, and only a larger than original triangle is available, and the proprietor won’t allow you to draw a second line...., then that table cannot be used to play 14.1?

I think you might find that most who play straight pool are flexible enough to adapt, and will traditionally use ‘triangle interference’ as the deciding factor when determining whether the breakball is indeed in or out.
  
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01-08-2019, 04:41 PM

I've been seriously playing straight pool for over 5 years and have always questioned why there is not a regulation 14.1 rack to end all this nonsense. Nobody has an answer as to why there is not one.

I understand why it doesn't matter in today's world, because 99% of the players are playing games where there is no connection from one rack to the next. But one would have thought 100 years ago when 14.1 was the only game played some rack standardization would have been instituted.

Rack size variance is obscene today. The Diamond rack is almost 3 2x4's put together (OK I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the point) and should never be used for 14.1. The depth of that rack actually penalizes a player who wants to play a "behind the rack break" if you are using the edges of that rack to determine whether the break ball is inside the rack.

I think the table should be marked with 3 lines that indicate the actual edge of the 14 balls. If the edge of the break ball is outside that line it stays, even if you need to mark the break ball to rack the balls with whatever rack you use.

Not having a regulation rack for 14.1 is no different than playing with balls other than a 2.25" diameter. When you think about it, it is just another example of how so many rules of pool have gray areas open to interpretation and launch points for cheating.
  
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01-08-2019, 05:45 PM

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Originally Posted by arcstats View Post
I've been seriously playing straight pool for over 5 years and have always questioned why there is not a regulation 14.1 rack to end all this nonsense. Nobody has an answer as to why there is not one.

I understand why it doesn't matter in today's world, because 99% of the players are playing games where there is no connection from one rack to the next. But one would have thought 100 years ago when 14.1 was the only game played some rack standardization would have been instituted.

Rack size variance is obscene today. The Diamond rack is almost 3 2x4's put together (OK I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the point) and should never be used for 14.1. The depth of that rack actually penalizes a player who wants to play a "behind the rack break" if you are using the edges of that rack to determine whether the break ball is inside the rack.

I think the table should be marked with 3 lines that indicate the actual edge of the 14 balls. If the edge of the break ball is outside that line it stays, even if you need to mark the break ball to rack the balls with whatever rack you use.

Not having a regulation rack for 14.1 is no different than playing with balls other than a 2.25" diameter. When you think about it, it is just another example of how so many rules of pool have gray areas open to interpretation and launch points for cheating.

lol, true about the Diamond rack.

Certainly it wouldn't hurt to standardize this. Rack size, as in other things in life, can make a big difference :-o

Lou Figueroa
  
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01-10-2019, 12:48 PM

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Originally Posted by DynoDan View Post
So, using your rationale, then if there is a previously drawn indelible line on the cloth, and only a larger than original triangle is available, and the proprietor won’t allow you to draw a second line...., then that table cannot be used to play 14.1?

I think you might find that most who play straight pool are flexible enough to adapt, and will traditionally use ‘triangle interference’ as the deciding factor when determining whether the breakball is indeed in or out.
oh more conjecture, I just put u on me ignore list. Use all the fancy words u like dyno duo, u either don't want to learn or your protecting the source that keeps corruption alive. I have no answers for u.
  
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computer graphics
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computer graphics - 01-10-2019, 01:04 PM

There is no major event worth attending here in USA for 14.1 I am sorry to report. getting back to the possible future of 14.1 (on the square) - I visualize object balls that are inside the rack line - blinking while watching a great match up between two great players from a monitor/TV at the top level. This inevitable technology will replace the dismal state of how Straight Pool is being marketed or presented to the public today. Ya just use any ol' rack - what a racket ha ha. See u in the funny papers.
  
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the ol' most people angle
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the ol' most people angle - 01-10-2019, 01:13 PM

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Originally Posted by DynoDan View Post
So, using your rationale, then if there is a previously drawn indelible line on the cloth, and only a larger than original triangle is available, and the proprietor won’t allow you to draw a second line...., then that table cannot be used to play 14.1?

I think you might find that most who play straight pool are flexible enough to adapt, and will traditionally use ‘triangle interference’ as the deciding factor when determining whether the breakball is indeed in or out.
oh u might want to know - I care zero for how most people might want to go about playing 14.1, let them hover the foreign rack over a frame of pool ball's and try to guess what is in or out. Most people who have a brain and really want to learn the game will listen to what I am saying. I don't think your in that group, if u ever want lessons on 14.1 come to MO my rate for u is $10,000 per hr - and u can ask all the dumb questions u want.
  
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You are correct
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You are correct - 01-10-2019, 01:17 PM

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Originally Posted by arcstats View Post
I've been seriously playing straight pool for over 5 years and have always questioned why there is not a regulation 14.1 rack to end all this nonsense. Nobody has an answer as to why there is not one.

I understand why it doesn't matter in today's world, because 99% of the players are playing games where there is no connection from one rack to the next. But one would have thought 100 years ago when 14.1 was the only game played some rack standardization would have been instituted.

Rack size variance is obscene today. The Diamond rack is almost 3 2x4's put together (OK I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the point) and should never be used for 14.1. The depth of that rack actually penalizes a player who wants to play a "behind the rack break" if you are using the edges of that rack to determine whether the break ball is inside the rack.

I think the table should be marked with 3 lines that indicate the actual edge of the 14 balls. If the edge of the break ball is outside that line it stays, even if you need to mark the break ball to rack the balls with whatever rack you use.

Not having a regulation rack for 14.1 is no different than playing with balls other than a 2.25" diameter. When you think about it, it is just another example of how so many rules of pool have gray areas open to interpretation and launch points for cheating.
We have a winner, give em a cigar. thanks for an honest and well thought out post.
  
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Nice idea, but how do you do that?
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Nice idea, but how do you do that? - 01-11-2019, 08:22 AM

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Originally Posted by arcstats View Post
I think the table should be marked with 3 lines that indicate the actual edge of the 14 balls.
I agree with the intent, but that can't be done using any normal triangle rack because the inside of the triangle is larger than "the actual edge of the 14 balls."
  
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01-11-2019, 10:37 AM

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Originally Posted by arcstats View Post
...
I think the table should be marked with 3 lines that indicate the actual edge of the 14 balls. If the edge of the break ball is outside that line it stays, even if you need to mark the break ball to rack the balls with whatever rack you use.

...
There are some spots your idea would allow for a break ball where the break ball would be unplayable. Is that what you want?


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01-11-2019, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=Danny Harriman: ....I care zero for how most people might want to go about playing 14.1,..... if u ever want lessons on 14.1 come to MO my rate for u is $10,000 per hr ....[/QUOTE]

And doubtless well worth it (judging by your extraordinary skill level), but (much like sometimes with Mike S.), people may think your elitist attitude is showing a bit (?).
  
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rackin me brain
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Danny Harriman
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rackin me brain - 01-11-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcstats View Post
I've been seriously playing straight pool for over 5 years and have always questioned why there is not a regulation 14.1 rack to end all this nonsense. Nobody has an answer as to why there is not one.

I understand why it doesn't matter in today's world, because 99% of the players are playing games where there is no connection from one rack to the next. But one would have thought 100 years ago when 14.1 was the only game played some rack standardization would have been instituted.

Rack size variance is obscene today. The Diamond rack is almost 3 2x4's put together (OK I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the point) and should never be used for 14.1. The depth of that rack actually penalizes a player who wants to play a "behind the rack break" if you are using the edges of that rack to determine whether the break ball is inside the rack.

I think the table should be marked with 3 lines that indicate the actual edge of the 14 balls. If the edge of the break ball is outside that line it stays, even if you need to mark the break ball to rack the balls with whatever rack you use.

Not having a regulation rack for 14.1 is no different than playing with balls other than a 2.25" diameter. When you think about it, it is just another example of how so many rules of pool have gray areas open to interpretation and launch points for cheating.
I only use one traced line for the rack, in one pocket it is ok to draw a line for when to spot object ball's - I don't draw any other lines other than the one that traces the outer edge of a thin triangle. If you cannot lift the rack up past - then object ball is in. This is why I like to employ a thin triangle when racking. I was just racking my brain and thought it would be nice to have a rack that would light up (stoplight color coded) when it was placed correctly? I don't really know how to stop the cheats, but it does make the game of straight pool look shady.

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01-14-2019, 08:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
There are some spots your idea would allow for a break ball where the break ball would be unplayable. Is that what you want?
Bob, there are unlimited places on the table where a break ball is unplayable i.e. object ball on the table head rail and the cue behind the rack. I think all good 14.1 players do not want a break ball within 1/4 inch of the rack, unless the cue is in perfect position, and would try to avoid the condition of marrying the break ball on the edge of the rack at all costs. But this solution would resolve the multiple rack size and the "in or out of the rack" discussion.

Drawing 3 lines representing the edge of the rack is quite simple. Rack 14 balls and remove the rack. Place a straight edge that is 1 1/8" high along the edge of the balls on one side. Mark on the straight edge the center of the end balls. Leave the straight edge in place, remove the balls, and draw a line on the table from each center point. Repeat the process for the other 2 sides of the rack by re-racking, aligning the straight edge to the center of the balls edge with the previous marks, and draw the line.

During play, if the the edge of the break ball is outside the line, but must be marked to rack the 14, so be it.
  
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light em up
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Danny Harriman
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light em up - 01-15-2019, 02:27 PM

I still like my light on the rack idea, don't think it would not be easy to do either. It would seem there is an 'ail lement' that would lead us to believe that it's very difficult to have the same rack every time - no matter if the break shot is high or low. I understand the shortest distance between two points is a straight line - but not many lines.I am all for an idea that would help accountability for this (rack yer own wound) that has been inflicted into 14.1, however on second thought I think drawing many lines is a mistake. Again there is a simple solution for the problem, when triangle lines up the side of the rack lights up blue, if rack is moved high or low the red light comes on. Or you can go off on a tangent and draw lines all over the table, this will look goofy and complicated. Either way something needs to be done about this, if I hit the lotto I will hire a team of ref's with white gloves - in hopes of trying to salvage what has been demolished, a sound and lights techy' squad - for the rack. but as the people in charge of the bar league's would say pool is a game that people want to play and not watch these same people make plenty of coin of bar tables - hmm. Of course they won't tell you that 14.1 could be marketed into a very enjoyable spectator friendly sport to watch either live or on tv - and is much easier to film than say nine ball or 8 ball for that mattrer. Rack yer own will assist in the current state of petty deception that this great game has and still is being subjected to. I don't play the lotto - Good Day

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01-19-2019, 05:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Danny Harriman View Post
I still like my light on the rack idea, don't think it would not be easy to do either. It would seem there is an 'ail lement' that would lead us to believe that it's very difficult to have the same rack every time - no matter if the break shot is high or low. I understand the shortest distance between two points is a straight line - but not many lines.I am all for an idea that would help accountability for this (rack yer own wound) that has been inflicted into 14.1, however on second thought I think drawing many lines is a mistake. Again there is a simple solution for the problem, when triangle lines up the side of the rack lights up blue, if rack is moved high or low the red light comes on. Or you can go off on a tangent and draw lines all over the table, this will look goofy and complicated. Either way something needs to be done about this, if I hit the lotto I will hire a team of ref's with white gloves - in hopes of trying to salvage what has been demolished, a sound and lights techy' squad - for the rack. but as the people in charge of the bar league's would say pool is a game that people want to play and not watch these same people make plenty of coin of bar tables - hmm. Of course they won't tell you that 14.1 could be marketed into a very enjoyable spectator friendly sport to watch either live or on tv - and is much easier to film than say nine ball or 8 ball for that mattrer. Rack yer own will assist in the current state of petty deception that this great game has and still is being subjected to. I don't play the lotto - Good Day
In the old days (at least at some tournaments) they had an extra ball that was used to rack, and then the head ball was removed. Makes it pretty obvious exactly where the rack's supposed to go.

But I have to say, I get a little chuckle out of the rack position being some sort of impediment to the game. Lots of us are out here struggling just to get to the break shot, and most of the time I'm happy if my break ball is even in the vicinity of the rack. It'd be pretty obvious if the rack ever interferes with my break shot...
  
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