Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > 14.1 Pool
Reload this Page What are things a good 14.1 instructor should be teaching?
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
What are things a good 14.1 instructor should be teaching?
Old
  (#1)
Positively Ralf
AzB Silver Member
Positively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 592
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: A little place called Westchester County
   
What are things a good 14.1 instructor should be teaching? - 05-21-2019, 06:54 AM

Got into a discussion with someone from my league about this. We bounced ideas from each other like how to get rid of clusters, when to go into clusters, which balls should be off the table first and so on.

I've never had a 14.1 lesson and I'm sure plenty of you guys and gals here have. What are some things that you feel are important that an instructor of the game should be teaching you? How many lessons should it take for said person to teach you all things associated with the game?
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 16,293
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
05-21-2019, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
Got into a discussion with someone from my league about this. We bounced ideas from each other like how to get rid of clusters, when to go into clusters, which balls should be off the table first and so on.

I've never had a 14.1 lesson and I'm sure plenty of you guys and gals here have. What are some things that you feel are important that an instructor of the game should be teaching you? How many lessons should it take for said person to teach you all things associated with the game?
For the vast majority of students who want to improve their 14.1 play, the lesson has to begin with mechanics, fundamentals and working on basic position play. If you don't have the basic tools to work with, you cannot construct runs.

As for the specific things to talk about, it's hard to say. There are lots of ideas that are common to all pool games that are important at 14.1. Finding dead balls is universal -- it is critical on partly broken racks at straight pool.

Selecting the easy way to clear the table -- patterns -- is an important skill. Planning the last five is the most important part of patterns. At the beginning of the rack handling clusters and insurance balls is important.

Have you read Mosconi, Cranfield, Fels, Byrne and Capelle? There's lots of grist there.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
Positively Ralf
AzB Silver Member
Positively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 592
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: A little place called Westchester County
   
05-21-2019, 11:18 AM

I've only read The Straight Pool Bible. My only gripe with the book is how you have to turn the page back and forth to read what is happening in the diagram. A lot of fun stuff in there for sure and it's the reason why I look for dead balls the moment I get up to the table.

Fels' book, Advanced Pool, is probably my next read. I've heard of the Capelle book but can't say I've seen anywhere about a Mosconi book on the subect.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
arnaldo
AzB Silver Member
arnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond reputearnaldo has a reputation beyond repute
 
arnaldo's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 644
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2012
   
05-21-2019, 11:59 AM

Ralf: Watch this video studiously from the beginning and all the way thru several times; it's a treasure trove of advice, tips, sensible precautions, and real encouragement by example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrPrRvPOUkA

John is a natural-born teacher and you and others will learn a tremendous amount from his player review voiceover discussing his 366-ball run and his seasoned overall insights into exactly how he and other top ball-runners optimally approach the sequential racks.

I've steered dozens of local players/students to this free video and you'd be amazed at how the principles John annunciates (and obviously demonstrates) rapidly affected and greatly improved their Straight Pool playing.

(Fast forward thru the two 5-minute business phone calls John takes during the run.)

Be sure to post here on this thread your reaction to the video after digesting it; that will encourage future readers of this forum to watch it and benefit from it (as much as you surely will).

I don't think there's a single vital element of 14.1 play that isn't discussed and amply demonstrated by John as he proceeds thru this skillfully and intelligently accomplished run. His instincts for the game are rare, marvelous, and generously extended to all 14.1 aspirants wishing to elevate their skills (and enjoyment) at the table.

Arnaldo


“When the action starts, it may not go the way you planned, and you’re down to your reflexes. That’s where your roadwork shows . . . If you cheated on that in the dark of the morning, well, you’re gonna get found out now, under the bright lights.” – Joe “Smokin’ Joe” Frazier

Last edited by arnaldo; 05-21-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
Positively Ralf
AzB Silver Member
Positively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 592
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: A little place called Westchester County
   
05-21-2019, 12:18 PM

Thanks for the tip Arnaldo. I've actually seen that video a few times. I always enjoy watching it and you are right, a lot of great things come from watching it.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
sjm
Sweating the 2017 Mosconi
sjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond repute
 
sjm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 15,200
vCash: 525
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York, NY
   
05-21-2019, 03:25 PM

Here's my outline for a lesson I gave to a top pro, who shall remain nameless, about six years ago. Hope someone finds it helpful

14.1 Lesson Plan Outline


I Introduction


1. What Makes A Good 14.1 Pool Player?
a) Awareness and command of the various break shots that begin racks
b) Command of the mid-rack and knowledge on opening clustered balls without losing shape
c) Knowledge of basic principles for running the table once the balls are open
d) Knowledge of how to reposition balls already in the open to improve run out prospects
e) Knowledge of what balls to leave for the end pattern and how to leave a break shot
f) Knowledge and command of defensive and tactical play
g) Exceptional speed control and the ability to play short, accurate position

2. Terminology
a) Break ball
b) Key ball- the ball used to get shape onto a break shot
c) Key to the key (or "setup" ball) - the ball used to play shape onto the key ball


II Offense


1. Awareness and command of the various break shots that begin racks
a) standard break shots into the bottom corner from above the rack
b) standard break shots into the bottom corner from under the rack
c) side pocket break shots, zero, one and two rails
d) the head spot break shot, one rail and two rails
e) other break shots played into the top corners

2. Command of the mid-rack and knowledge of how to open up clustered balls
a) clearing the rails sooner rather than later
b) unblocking blocked pockets to clear a path for other balls
c) choosing the best attack angles when running into clusters
d) use of insurance balls (also called safety valves) while breaking clusters
e) solving problems early rather than late in the pattern

3. Basic principles for running the table once the balls are relatively open
a) playing the balls in groups
b) clearing the top of the table before the end pattern
c) clearing the area below the break shot before the end pattern
d) identifying certain balls as untouchable
e) abandoning a pattern and/or a break shot
f) playing a pattern that requires minimal cue ball movement in the end pattern

4. Repositioning balls already in the open to improve run out prospects
a) creating a break ball
b) creating a key ball
c) bumping a ball off the rail

5. Knowledge of what balls to leave for the end pattern and how to leave a break shot
a) leaving two break shots as a safeguard
b) some desirable end-rack configurations of the balls

6 Special end-rack solutions
a) Leaving the cue ball in the rack on the last ball
b) Bumping the last ball out of the rack while leaving cue ball in the rack
c) Leaving the last ball in the rack to be spotted at the head spot
III Defense and Tactics in 14.1

1 The opening safety
a) after loss of the lag or after your own three foul

2 The most basic safeties with an undisturbed rack
a) on the top ball
b) front of the pack, middle balls
c) front of the pack, corner balls
d) behind the pack, middle balls
e) behind the pack, corner balls
f) with ball in hand and opponent on a foul
f) safeties off the only loose ball

3 Developing defense
a) Creating individual threats
b) Approach to creating multiple threats
both sides of the pack
threats near the side pocket or top rail
avoidance of covering existing threats

4 Taking the likely defensive counter-play into account
a) anticipating the response to a given safety
b) anticipating the defensive sequence
c) changing your plan

5 Taking a scratch
a) The one rail back-scratch
when to use it and how hard to hit it
where to contact the back of the pack
b) The two rail back-scratch
when to use it
how hard to hit it
where to contact the back of the pack
c) Freeze the cue to the pack?
d) Freeze the cue to the rail?
e) To concede a difficult shot
f) To concede a shot from which opponent cannot produce much offense

6 Strategy changes when opponent ended last inning with a foul
a) abandoning a run if you get stuck
b) abandoning a run if you are low percentage shot

7 Escape tactics
a) taking a third foul
b) taking a second foul before shooting a very difficult shot
c) inducing your opponent to play too passively in their defense
d) responses to a back-scratch
e) responses to front of the rack second ball safety
f) response to back of the rack second ball safety
g) when you are frozen to a rail during a safety sequence

8 The 14.1 End Game
a) when you have game on the table and opponent does not
b) when opponent has game on the table and you do not
c) what to do if you determine that you cannot run out
d) what to do once you determine that you can't leave a break shot
when to run out and then play one of the standard safeties
when to run out and then pocket the one loose ball that remains
e) two-way shots on game ball
  
Reply With Quote
instructional DVD
Old
  (#7)
Danny Harriman
AzB Silver Member
Danny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond repute
 
Danny Harriman's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: May 2008
   
instructional DVD - 05-23-2019, 02:28 PM

Did you ever receive my 351 instructional DVD? I remembered u were requesting a copy - did you get one from Dennis?
  
Reply With Quote
instructional DVD
Old
  (#8)
Danny Harriman
AzB Silver Member
Danny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond repute
 
Danny Harriman's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: May 2008
   
instructional DVD - 05-23-2019, 02:28 PM

Did you ever receive my 351 instructional DVD there ralf? I remembered u were requesting a copy - did you get one from Dennis?
  
Reply With Quote
poe little
Old
  (#9)
Danny Harriman
AzB Silver Member
Danny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond repute
 
Danny Harriman's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: May 2008
   
poe little - 05-23-2019, 03:35 PM

i know I ain't the 'poly tickly' correct choice - however I think it's worth a gander.
  
Reply With Quote
What are things a good 14.1 instructor should be teaching?
Old
  (#10)
K2Kraze
AzB Gold Member
K2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond reputeK2Kraze has a reputation beyond repute
 
K2Kraze's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,469
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Fort Worth, TX
   
What are things a good 14.1 instructor should be teaching? - 05-23-2019, 04:33 PM

sjm -

Thank you x10, sir, for taking time to post your lesson material and sharing with us. As a lifelong student and promoter of all-things 14.1, I’ll add your content to my binder and see what gems lay within

~ K.

Danny -

Your dvd is also a gem worthy of review and study - a prized resource for sure! It’s one of the Top 5 recommendations I give whenever a good friend asks for guidance. Thank you for getting a copy to me last year, sir!

~ K.

  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
sjm
Sweating the 2017 Mosconi
sjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond repute
 
sjm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 15,200
vCash: 525
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York, NY
   
05-24-2019, 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by K2Kraze View Post
sjm -

Thank you x10, sir, for taking time to post your lesson material and sharing with us. As a lifelong student and promoter of all-things 14.1, I’ll add your content to my binder and see what gems lay within.
This is just a list of subjects I covered in a lesson that lasted about five hours given to a top pro long ago. Not sure there are any gems here, just a very comprehensive list of things one must study and practice on the path to becoming a big winner at 14.1.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
Positively Ralf
AzB Silver Member
Positively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 592
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: A little place called Westchester County
   
05-24-2019, 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Harriman View Post
i know I ain't the 'poly tickly' correct choice - however I think it's worth a gander.
I never got to ordering it because life got in the way. I will eventually get to it and hopefully very very soon.
  
Reply With Quote
Ok
Old
  (#13)
Danny Harriman
AzB Silver Member
Danny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond repute
 
Danny Harriman's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: May 2008
   
Ok - 05-24-2019, 09:20 AM

Roger that positively ralf, and thank you k2kraze for compliment on referring my dvd, it truly is my life's work that got in the way. I was ranked in top twenty for many years on professional 9 ball tour - only winning one major event. Had I practiced more straight pool before competing on the tour - I feel I would have won more professional nine ball titles. Oh and I would mention if you are trying' to practice straight pool on a bar box - I think it's a mistake. However you will get plenty of practice at breaking out clusters lol.

Last edited by Danny Harriman; 05-24-2019 at 09:25 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
well centered
Old
  (#14)
Danny Harriman
AzB Silver Member
Danny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond reputeDanny Harriman has a reputation beyond repute
 
Danny Harriman's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: May 2008
   
well centered - 05-24-2019, 02:25 PM

The first place I start with the bar league players I am currently working with is helping them understand where the center of cue ball is. They are so use to having to spin many shots in due to all the congestion a bar box presents. When 'they' say all the great players (all your hero's) started out playing 8 ball on a bar table - that is nonsense bar league owners trying to sell barbox pool to the public. Learning where the center of cue ball is according to your line' is the very foundation for any aspiring 14.1 player. Just trying to give you some positive incentive there ralf. :-]
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 7,346
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
05-25-2019, 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Harriman View Post
The first place I start with the bar league players I am currently working with is helping them understand where the center of cue ball is. They are so use to having to spin many shots in due to all the congestion a bar box presents. When 'they' say all the great players (all your hero's) started out playing 8 ball on a bar table - that is nonsense bar league owners trying to sell barbox pool to the public. Learning where the center of cue ball is according to your line' is the very foundation for any aspiring 14.1 player. Just trying to give you some positive incentive there ralf. :-]
Well said DH. You still in Springfield area?
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.