I'll go ahead and agree with you, John. I also do not care one bit whether 99.99% of Earth's population dies. I care about a small group of people, the death of anyone else will not affect me in the least.
I’ve never been banned from a forum until yesterday
- Thread starter Arounceville
- Start date
I'll go ahead and agree with you, John. I also do not care one bit whether 99.99% of Earth's population dies. I care about a small group of people, the death of anyone else will not affect me in the least.
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You mean there are 74 million people that you care about?
It's doubtful he cares about .01% of the population outside of the United States, so the
number is probably closer to 3,250,000.
I'm sure there are a few in Asia and the Philippines, let's say 2-million, a few in Europe,
a couple in the middle east, one in Israel, so the total is more like 5,544,003,
substantially less than your original estimate.
You mean there are 74 million people that you care about?
Your math is waaay off...or the canadan exchange rate is ridiculous.
.0001x7,000,000,000=700,000
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You mean there are 74 million people that you care about?
HAHAHA:thumbup:! I didn't really do the math on that one. There are probably less than 100 people that could die and I'd give it more than 3 seconds of thought. I don't consider myself a bad person, but I just don't value life nearly as much as most people seem to.
Poppa is right...I had the right figure the first time...
...the new figure is .01% of 7.5 billion = 750,000...
I started with the right figures...then I dogged it.
it's not 'easy' being a wiseguy...
Entertaining to say the least. So far cases, cues, scammers, admins,facebook,death,communist china, etc has all been discussed. I can add a few things... JB and I pretty much disagree on everything political but do alot of business together, Im a member of OBM and so i follow the rules, also i have my own group and if anyone thinks its easy doing that 24/7 its not. Occasionally i have to make some tough decisions and its a no win situation. But its always best for people not involved to not make comments like Andrew did. The admin was trying to help a guy get his money back from a deal gone bad. Really theres no reason for anyone to disrupt that. Admins work for free and put many long hours in. Just my .02
Oh one other thing, the OP said hes never been banned from a billiards forum before. Thats not true either. He was banned from mine after the same kind of deal about another cuemaker after having a meltdown about how me and Daniel Le were handling a deal. IIRC one of the comments was daniel and I were ruining the billiards industry by putting pressure on the bad guys.
Im not reading all this nonsense so if somebody already said it I am sorry-
http://knowles.co.za/wp-content/uploads/internet-serious-business.jpg
http://knowles.co.za/wp-content/uploads/internet-serious-business.jpg
If you haven't read it, how do you know it's nonsense?
If this is true I wasn’t aware that I was banned
Are you sure I was a member what is the name of your group
Also if I did have a meltdown (I didn’t) that would be very out of character for me
If I remember right I believe my comments were about you and Daniels professionalism
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Keep it going.
Might as well give you all more to discuss.
These are the current rules at OBM. Lots of "hater food" below.
_______________________________
RULES - PLEASE READ CAREFULLY -
The simple version - don't knock anyone else's ads. IN ANY WAY. Don't be a jerk.
The ONLY exception is to point out clear deception or scammers.
**** Don't knock prices. AT ALL. ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY NOW IN EFFECT. I WILL BAN ANYONE WHO KNOCKS PRICES WITH NO MORE WARNINGS. IF YOU DID NOT READ THESE RULES - Too bad. ***
*** Post a price with your ad. This includes trades. Post a trade value you are looking for or an exact item you are willing to trade for. This allows everyone to know what price class the deal is in.***
*** "If you have multiple items post the price for each line item for sale. ****
*** put Terms in your ad. Either Satisfaction Guaranteed which means you will refund or undo the trade if needed. Or As Is which means no expectation of a refund or trade reversal. **** we will warn sellers of this for a while before we start deleting ads.
**** No raffles. Do not RUN your raffle on OBM. NO RAFFLES OR LINKS TO RAFFLES. Not even charity raffles. I know that you are raising money for your cause BUT we can't risk this group being taken down because of that. ****
**** Do not post ads using images from dealer sites. take your own original pictures. Supplement with dealer pics if you want but only if you PROVE that you have the item in your possession with your own pics. YOU MUST POST PICTURES. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS IF A MOD GIVES YOU PERMISSION TO NOT POST PICS.
I am empowering the mods to delete any post without warning that is found to violate this rule. ****
****IMAGES PART 2 ***** I GUESS I WAS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH IN THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH. YOU MUST POST ORIGINAL PICTURES THAT PROVE YOU HAVE THE ITEM IN YOUR HANDS THAT YOU ARE OFFERING FOR SALE. IF YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE PICTURES DON'T POST THEM.
The reason for this is to prevent scammers from stealing pictures and posting desirable items for sale in order to get money with no ability to deliver. Just last week a member alerted us to a scammer who stole pics from an ebay ad and posted them here on several Predator cues. We caught it before he could scam someone out thousands. If you think that this rule is too restrictive feel free to leave and go post in other groups. THE REASON that OBM has 34,000 members and climbing and that every other group's owners also post their stuff for sale here is because of our traffic. People who leave and try to sell their stuff elsewhere often beg to come back once they see how little attention their ads get. We don't make these rules to be assholes we do them because each one has a solid reason based on many years of online marketplace experience. These rules have two purposes, to keep the peace and to try to prevent scammers.
*** Don't Spam. On ad per item per person, no need for multiple ads for the same item and no overbumping. You know what that is. ***
*** Billiard Businesses may post ONE marketing ad each month to promote their business. This is a hey look at us type ad or an add for an upcoming show they will be at. MAKE IT COUNT and Don't spam. I have a business and I would love to spam you all with daily ads for our cases....you would get sick of it pretty soon. ****
***** NO TROLLING ****** Trolling is making comments that are deliberately crafted to piss off someone else on a constant and stalking basis. This behavior will not be tolerated AT ALL. In a discussion, you can state your point without being shitty to the other person. We all can. *****
***** You are responsible for your transactions. We have no way to intervene or force anyone to do anything regarding how a transaction plays out. Please do not ask us to arbitrate for you because that is not our role. Think of this as the mall and the members as the stores and customers. Our advice is to do your homework and protect yourself before sending money or goods. Follow the links above to ask about any person's reputation.
***** People.... don't cause conflict. I understand feeling snippy or whatever but don't troll and cause conflict. If you have a problem with someone personally then take it to the info group or the transactions group. Don't follow them around and make snide comments on their posts that are designed to get a crappy response.******
******Don't be an asshole. This relates to the above rule. Listen it's like this, there will ALWAYS BE some posts made which have problems/questions/rules issues etc.... IF a moderator says something or someone else says something REFRAIN from being an asshole because when you go to that level then it makes it extremely hard to let you stay in the group or reverse a ban. We DO NOT LIKE to ban people. If you stay civil then almost every situation can be worked out where all parties are happy. But when you go straight to defcon5 then the actual dispute doesn't matter at that point. NOOBS PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. Mods are here to help you DO NOT GO OFF ON THEM.******
*****Some KNOCKOFFS are not allowed to be sold on this marketplace. I am pulling rank and banning knockoffs of ALL JB Case designs. Any knockoffs of Justis' iconic 3 diamond design, knockoffs of Whitten cases and ANYTHING else I don't like is not allowed. Sorry but the buck stops HERE on the knockoffs. I know that some of you don't care about knockoffs and we can debate them all day long. The karma side of it is this....people spend a lot of time developing and marketing a design and it is not fair for others to come in later and profit on those designs. It might be legal but it's NOT COOL and as such is not allowed on OBM. IF your post gets deleted and you don't know why ask yourself if it's a knockoff of a famous design and if the answer is yes then that's the most likely reason.******
Please just BE COOL and BE CIVIL. Treat this like any other store or market. You know you don't go to the mall and harass the sellers because you don't like the prices. You don't stand outside the stores and spend time warning the people who would like to go in the stores about your feelings about the prices. If you did then you would be escorted out of the store.
We reserve the right to vote anyone off the island if we don't feel that their overall contribution is positive for the site. You don't have to explicitly break the rules to be a general nuisance. So please think about it and act like you're in church and need to fart. Just hold it in and keep the air clean.
This is a peaceful marketplace where sellers and buyers can transact without conflict. Please do your part to keep it that way. Take discussion of price and value to other forums please.
Lastly we rely on our community to help us to keep the site free of scammers and clutter and drama. Please report anything you find and an admin will look at it. None of the admins are making any money off this group. It is truly a public service to host and moderate a marketplace. Please be civil and respectful to the admins. We will always try to find a solution that fits the needs of the community and individual members as best we can. Thank you for hanging out here and helping us to keep this a cool place to buy sell and trade our equipment.
---------------------------
Clarification on the knockoff rule.
New Rule about case knockoffs. I am implementing a rule barring the sale of blatant ripoffs of case designs. starting with the iconic Justis three diamond inlay design.
VINCINTORE and J&J cases, both brands, all models are now barred as well. They have engaged in 30 years of blatant design theft and on top of that have no warranty.
Whitten copies are not allowed. Whitten created an iconic look and I will not allow blatant copies to be sold on OBM.
EDIT: I should not HAVE to say this but in light of some of the comments...designs that are similar which have been made with PERMISSION and ATTRIBUTION to the original maker ARE ALLOWED. That people can't make this distinction should not surprise me but I have more faith in human intelligence than I should.
I know that this is not a popular move but it is my decision. I have suffered for 20 years seeing my designs ripped off and this is at least one small thing I can do to fight back. Just because something is legal does not make it right. I will no longer allow those who can't innovate to profit off of the design work of others.
Yes, we can have a LIVELY discussion on just what is a copy, a knockoff etc... and how far is too far, who was first etc...all good points to discuss. But keep it civil or I will remove you.
Lastly, if our small community won't support those who create original work then who will? It's simply not right to see someone create original art and have it be ripped off and mass-produced by the next maker. The entire facebook billiards community should tell the knockoff artists to stop stealing from the actual artists. Tell them to spend their time and money and brainpower creating original art as well.
That way we all have more to choose from and more to celebrate.
-------------------------------------
TERMS:
Trademark: this is a brand. nothing to do with design.
Copyright: protection against copying for ART which is not utilitarian. Cue cases designs cannot be copyrighted in the USA.
Patent: protection for utilitarian designs that are new and novel. Does NOT cover the look of something.
Design Patent: covers the look of a utilitarian item. Essentially worthless unless you have a ton of money to fight with to defend it.
Knockoff: an item that copies the look and design of an original substantially. Not illegal if a trademark is not used.
Counterfeit: a knockoff that is identical to an original including the use of the trademark logo. These are 100% ILLEGAL.
Public Domain: Designs and art which has been in use so long that any copyright or design patent that may have applied is no longer applicable. Work can fall into the public domain when rights holders don't vigorously defend against infringement. Mostly though it is not ILLEGAL to rip off a design, just tacky and immoral. So, for the most part, the designs on cues and cases are in the public domain and can be LEGALLY copied.
Asshole: Someone who makes knockoffs instead of creating their own original designs so that they can PROFIT from the work of others. These people essentially use real creators as their unpaid R&D department by shamelessly copying in whole or in part the work of others.
Upstanding Awesome Person: Someone who resists the urge to allow blatant ripoffs to be presented without at least giving credit to the original artist who created the design. I find it reprehensible that in some cases the knockoffs are thought to be the originals because of ASSHOLES (see above) who don't give credit for the origin of the design and not enough Awesome Upstanding People who hold them accountable.
Might as well give you all more to discuss.
These are the current rules at OBM. Lots of "hater food" below.
_______________________________
RULES - PLEASE READ CAREFULLY -
The simple version - don't knock anyone else's ads. IN ANY WAY. Don't be a jerk.
The ONLY exception is to point out clear deception or scammers.
**** Don't knock prices. AT ALL. ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY NOW IN EFFECT. I WILL BAN ANYONE WHO KNOCKS PRICES WITH NO MORE WARNINGS. IF YOU DID NOT READ THESE RULES - Too bad. ***
*** Post a price with your ad. This includes trades. Post a trade value you are looking for or an exact item you are willing to trade for. This allows everyone to know what price class the deal is in.***
*** "If you have multiple items post the price for each line item for sale. ****
*** put Terms in your ad. Either Satisfaction Guaranteed which means you will refund or undo the trade if needed. Or As Is which means no expectation of a refund or trade reversal. **** we will warn sellers of this for a while before we start deleting ads.
**** No raffles. Do not RUN your raffle on OBM. NO RAFFLES OR LINKS TO RAFFLES. Not even charity raffles. I know that you are raising money for your cause BUT we can't risk this group being taken down because of that. ****
**** Do not post ads using images from dealer sites. take your own original pictures. Supplement with dealer pics if you want but only if you PROVE that you have the item in your possession with your own pics. YOU MUST POST PICTURES. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS IF A MOD GIVES YOU PERMISSION TO NOT POST PICS.
I am empowering the mods to delete any post without warning that is found to violate this rule. ****
****IMAGES PART 2 ***** I GUESS I WAS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH IN THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH. YOU MUST POST ORIGINAL PICTURES THAT PROVE YOU HAVE THE ITEM IN YOUR HANDS THAT YOU ARE OFFERING FOR SALE. IF YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE PICTURES DON'T POST THEM.
The reason for this is to prevent scammers from stealing pictures and posting desirable items for sale in order to get money with no ability to deliver. Just last week a member alerted us to a scammer who stole pics from an ebay ad and posted them here on several Predator cues. We caught it before he could scam someone out thousands. If you think that this rule is too restrictive feel free to leave and go post in other groups. THE REASON that OBM has 34,000 members and climbing and that every other group's owners also post their stuff for sale here is because of our traffic. People who leave and try to sell their stuff elsewhere often beg to come back once they see how little attention their ads get. We don't make these rules to be assholes we do them because each one has a solid reason based on many years of online marketplace experience. These rules have two purposes, to keep the peace and to try to prevent scammers.
*** Don't Spam. On ad per item per person, no need for multiple ads for the same item and no overbumping. You know what that is. ***
*** Billiard Businesses may post ONE marketing ad each month to promote their business. This is a hey look at us type ad or an add for an upcoming show they will be at. MAKE IT COUNT and Don't spam. I have a business and I would love to spam you all with daily ads for our cases....you would get sick of it pretty soon. ****
***** NO TROLLING ****** Trolling is making comments that are deliberately crafted to piss off someone else on a constant and stalking basis. This behavior will not be tolerated AT ALL. In a discussion, you can state your point without being shitty to the other person. We all can. *****
***** You are responsible for your transactions. We have no way to intervene or force anyone to do anything regarding how a transaction plays out. Please do not ask us to arbitrate for you because that is not our role. Think of this as the mall and the members as the stores and customers. Our advice is to do your homework and protect yourself before sending money or goods. Follow the links above to ask about any person's reputation.
***** People.... don't cause conflict. I understand feeling snippy or whatever but don't troll and cause conflict. If you have a problem with someone personally then take it to the info group or the transactions group. Don't follow them around and make snide comments on their posts that are designed to get a crappy response.******
******Don't be an asshole. This relates to the above rule. Listen it's like this, there will ALWAYS BE some posts made which have problems/questions/rules issues etc.... IF a moderator says something or someone else says something REFRAIN from being an asshole because when you go to that level then it makes it extremely hard to let you stay in the group or reverse a ban. We DO NOT LIKE to ban people. If you stay civil then almost every situation can be worked out where all parties are happy. But when you go straight to defcon5 then the actual dispute doesn't matter at that point. NOOBS PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. Mods are here to help you DO NOT GO OFF ON THEM.******
*****Some KNOCKOFFS are not allowed to be sold on this marketplace. I am pulling rank and banning knockoffs of ALL JB Case designs. Any knockoffs of Justis' iconic 3 diamond design, knockoffs of Whitten cases and ANYTHING else I don't like is not allowed. Sorry but the buck stops HERE on the knockoffs. I know that some of you don't care about knockoffs and we can debate them all day long. The karma side of it is this....people spend a lot of time developing and marketing a design and it is not fair for others to come in later and profit on those designs. It might be legal but it's NOT COOL and as such is not allowed on OBM. IF your post gets deleted and you don't know why ask yourself if it's a knockoff of a famous design and if the answer is yes then that's the most likely reason.******
Please just BE COOL and BE CIVIL. Treat this like any other store or market. You know you don't go to the mall and harass the sellers because you don't like the prices. You don't stand outside the stores and spend time warning the people who would like to go in the stores about your feelings about the prices. If you did then you would be escorted out of the store.
We reserve the right to vote anyone off the island if we don't feel that their overall contribution is positive for the site. You don't have to explicitly break the rules to be a general nuisance. So please think about it and act like you're in church and need to fart. Just hold it in and keep the air clean.
This is a peaceful marketplace where sellers and buyers can transact without conflict. Please do your part to keep it that way. Take discussion of price and value to other forums please.
Lastly we rely on our community to help us to keep the site free of scammers and clutter and drama. Please report anything you find and an admin will look at it. None of the admins are making any money off this group. It is truly a public service to host and moderate a marketplace. Please be civil and respectful to the admins. We will always try to find a solution that fits the needs of the community and individual members as best we can. Thank you for hanging out here and helping us to keep this a cool place to buy sell and trade our equipment.
---------------------------
Clarification on the knockoff rule.
New Rule about case knockoffs. I am implementing a rule barring the sale of blatant ripoffs of case designs. starting with the iconic Justis three diamond inlay design.
VINCINTORE and J&J cases, both brands, all models are now barred as well. They have engaged in 30 years of blatant design theft and on top of that have no warranty.
Whitten copies are not allowed. Whitten created an iconic look and I will not allow blatant copies to be sold on OBM.
EDIT: I should not HAVE to say this but in light of some of the comments...designs that are similar which have been made with PERMISSION and ATTRIBUTION to the original maker ARE ALLOWED. That people can't make this distinction should not surprise me but I have more faith in human intelligence than I should.
I know that this is not a popular move but it is my decision. I have suffered for 20 years seeing my designs ripped off and this is at least one small thing I can do to fight back. Just because something is legal does not make it right. I will no longer allow those who can't innovate to profit off of the design work of others.
Yes, we can have a LIVELY discussion on just what is a copy, a knockoff etc... and how far is too far, who was first etc...all good points to discuss. But keep it civil or I will remove you.
Lastly, if our small community won't support those who create original work then who will? It's simply not right to see someone create original art and have it be ripped off and mass-produced by the next maker. The entire facebook billiards community should tell the knockoff artists to stop stealing from the actual artists. Tell them to spend their time and money and brainpower creating original art as well.
That way we all have more to choose from and more to celebrate.
-------------------------------------
TERMS:
Trademark: this is a brand. nothing to do with design.
Copyright: protection against copying for ART which is not utilitarian. Cue cases designs cannot be copyrighted in the USA.
Patent: protection for utilitarian designs that are new and novel. Does NOT cover the look of something.
Design Patent: covers the look of a utilitarian item. Essentially worthless unless you have a ton of money to fight with to defend it.
Knockoff: an item that copies the look and design of an original substantially. Not illegal if a trademark is not used.
Counterfeit: a knockoff that is identical to an original including the use of the trademark logo. These are 100% ILLEGAL.
Public Domain: Designs and art which has been in use so long that any copyright or design patent that may have applied is no longer applicable. Work can fall into the public domain when rights holders don't vigorously defend against infringement. Mostly though it is not ILLEGAL to rip off a design, just tacky and immoral. So, for the most part, the designs on cues and cases are in the public domain and can be LEGALLY copied.
Asshole: Someone who makes knockoffs instead of creating their own original designs so that they can PROFIT from the work of others. These people essentially use real creators as their unpaid R&D department by shamelessly copying in whole or in part the work of others.
Upstanding Awesome Person: Someone who resists the urge to allow blatant ripoffs to be presented without at least giving credit to the original artist who created the design. I find it reprehensible that in some cases the knockoffs are thought to be the originals because of ASSHOLES (see above) who don't give credit for the origin of the design and not enough Awesome Upstanding People who hold them accountable.
Attachments
If we are playing name that tune....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMNgbISmF4I
Thanks for the entertaining thread :thumbup: would read again...lol
I don't want to be one of zuckerberg's cash cows, so i don't have a facebook account to follow all this fun stuff live.
P.S. Screen sharing and remote access are 2 very very different things.
I don't want to be one of zuckerberg's cash cows, so i don't have a facebook account to follow all this fun stuff live.
P.S. Screen sharing and remote access are 2 very very different things.
Honest question: do groups like OBM generate income for the owner? From ads or something?
Always gotta have the last word!!! Dammit gets me all the time too! Gotta learn when to close that mouth and move on! Pick and chose your battles wisely!
Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums